Background checks and registering sales is "extreme"

[CajunRaven]

I can't say you're wrong. But I think the problem is a lot deeper than that. Really, imo, the problem isn't the mass shootings. It's the mass shooting.

Well, you're probably right. As far as the mass shooting goes, IMHO, a large part of the problem is the war on drugs. Destroy the black market for drugs. That won't eliminate all crime, but it would take large bite out of it.

The other side is the mentally ill.

[soulflower]

But if you're going to make laws against guns, then look at making laws against all parts of the problem.

Lets stay on topic. Nothing that the WH is proposing is 'against' guns or gun buyers.

And there is a difference between selling ones self on something and recognizing reality. Guns aren't violent. People are. It may be an old expression, but it still holds true.

People are the problem.

I agree. That's why laws, regulation, and enforcement are necessary...

One thing that history demonstrates is the government is by and large not the solution to these problems. Bigger government only creates bigger problems.

Not always. Sometimes less government oversight creates bigger problems...

[pickles]

Well, you're probably right. As far as the mass shooting goes, IMHO, a large part of the problem is the war on drugs. Destroy the black market for drugs. That won't eliminate all crime, but it would take large bite out of it.

The other side is the mentally ill.

I agree. And how plausible is that?

[ms maggie]

There needs to be a comprehensive effort re gun safety. Think about drunk driving and MADD, cigarette smoking which has been more than halved over the last decades--education can slowly affect behavior.

[dsummoner]

There needs to be a comprehensive effort re gun safety. Think about drunk driving and MADD, cigarette smoking which has been more than halved over the last decades--education can slowly affect behavior.

And what particular behavior would one be seeking to affect?

[soulflower]

There needs to be a comprehensive effort re gun safety. Think about drunk driving and MADD, cigarette smoking which has been more than halved over the last decades--education can slowly affect behavior.

And government regulation and safety policies have reduced traffic fatalities over the past few decades...

[dsummoner]

Government regulation and 'safety' policies have been quite effective in regards to the 'war' on drugs.

[Dryfire]

I register all my electronics and household appliances, it is for warranty and for recalls, also helps with ordering new parts.

I register my guns with the manufacturer for warranty and recalls, too.


What Federal agency do you register your appliance and electronics with?

[Dryfire]

You didn't know the Feds have access to corporate databases?

Nothing that is electronic is private whether its a Federal database or a corporate database...

I register my guns with the manufacturer for recalls and such. Isn't that good enough?

What federal agency do you register your electornics with? ATCP? Alcohol Tobacco and Coffee Pots

[slapshot]

Coffee pots don't kill people, people do.

[soulflower]

I register my guns with the manufacturer for recalls and such. Isn't that good enough?

What federal agency do you register your electornics with? ATCP? Alcohol Tobacco and Coffee Pots

Have you ever heard of datamining?

No electronic database is private. The Feds have access to whatever you register. Whether or not the data is admissible in court is a different matter. But nothing is private nowadays...

[soultrain]

From the referenced WaPo article:


I don't get what is 'extreme' about those ideas. They seem like pretty moderate proposals...

It is an infringement, thus unconstitutional

[Daan]

It is an infringement, thus unconstitutional

Good post!

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&tbo=d&b...6f3ac507a82fb6

.

[Dryfire]

Have you ever heard of datamining?

No electronic database is private. The Feds have access to whatever you register. Whether or not the data is admissible in court is a different matter. But nothing is private nowadays...

If this is the case, why have a National Registry only for guns? Isn't that a duplication of effort? You still didn't tell me what FEDERAL ageny I have to register my coffee pot with. My Keurig was a gift and I have yet to register it. Can you provide me what statute I'm breaking. I also got the extra filter that you can load with your own coffee or tea bag. Is there a regulation for high capacity filters for expresso.

[Grindelwald]

It is an infringement, thus unconstitutional

A background check is an infringement? How? If you can't pass a background check, then you are a criminal who doesn't care about the law anyway.

[dsummoner]

A background check is an infringement? How? If you can't pass a background check, then you are a criminal who doesn't care about the law anyway.

Have you registered your copies of Mein Kampf and Das Kapital with the government?

[Dryfire]

Coffee pots don't kill people, people do.

You got that right. It's just like a pistol sitting on the coffee table. It won't kill anybody by itself until the shooter picks it up and fires it. Somebody could shove the coffee pot in the seventh planet of the solar system and plug it in possibly helping you meet your untimely demise.

[soulflower]

If this is the case, why have a National Registry only for guns? Isn't that a duplication of effort?

Because evidence gained via datamining is not always admissible in court and may be illegal. It's better for law enforcement if they collect that info through legal means. But just because they're not supposed to mine through corporate databases doesn't mean they don't already have that capability. The NSA atleast, is already known to spy on American citizens who have nothing to do with terrorism.

You still didn't tell me what FEDERAL ageny I have to register my coffee pot with.

As long as it's registered electronically, the NSA, FBI, and whatever other agency with the means to mine electronic data will have access to it...

[soultrain]

A background check is an infringement? How? If you can't pass a background check, then you are a criminal who doesn't care about the law anyway.

That's not the point. Look up infringe in the dictionary, or see Daan's post above

[dsummoner]

Because evidence gained via datamining is not always admissible in court and may be illegal. It's better for law enforcement if they collect that info through legal means. But just because they're not supposed to mine through corporate databases doesn't mean they don't already have that capability. The NSA atleast, is already known to spy on American citizens who have nothing to do with terrorism.




As long as it's registered electronically, the NSA, FBI, and whatever other agency with the means to mine electronic data will have access to it...

So the illegitimate actions of government should serve as a basis for legitimizing the further erosion of civil liberties?