Hall of Fame announcement day

[mythoughts]

I think your next Baseball Hall-of-Fame Inductee just might be................................................ .....................Dale Murphy !

[mythoughts]

Your next Baseball Hall-of-Fame Inductee just might be................................................ .........................................Dale Murphy !

Why ??????

Because he has made it through 15 years on the Ballot......and he's no longer on the Writers Ballot......his name moves over to the Veterans Ballot (where's its a lot less congested!).
Kind of ironic isn't it ?

[can you hear me now!]

Yeah, but they are part of the era that worked so hard to protect the steroid user from getting caught too !

how so? they played by the rules....the owners and the commisoner bear the responsibility for enforcing the rules and policing the game.....

[ivanbalt]

Now let's say Writers/Voters decide to not vote anyone in again for the next 2 years just to make a point.
Now fast-forward to 2016 and the continually-growing list includes:

If Greg Maddux and Randy Johnson don't make it in on their first ballot, the HOF should just fold. The so-called "voters" will have destroyed it by pretending they were "protecting the game".

[weird-O]

I don't think enough is known about the effect of steroids on player performance to say for certain how much of a hitter's homers or a pitcher's velocity is attributable to steroids.

Afterall, there are plenty of examples of mediocre players like Jason Grimsley and Jay Gibbons who were known to be juicers. There's certainly more to the success of some athletes than what substances they use.

I wouldnt vote for McGwire because he was a one dimensional player.

my take on players like Gibbons is that they didn't have the natural talent to be MLB caliber players, but the juice pushed them up enough to stick around.

[LarryN]

Who the hell voted for Aaron Sele and Reggie Sanders????

[weird-O]

haven't seen a picture.... think the article covers Bagwell's non-use of roids....if he is no longer using a body builder workout regiment, it's a possible explanation for his weight loss.....

I agree, that's a possible explanation too. however, aside from the juice era, baseball players didn't lift weights to achieve body builder phyiques. bulky muscles reduce flexibility, and flexibility is a more essential part of playing baseball. prior to that era, there weren't that many hulks in MLB.

look at pix of Bagwell thru his career. he really "filled out" to put it politely. still, I'm not aware of any stories or connections to roids. so I would weigh that in my decision making if I was a voter.

generally speaking, some guys will get away with it

[ivanbalt]

Who the hell voted for Aaron Sele and Reggie Sanders????

I'm sure one of the clowns/writers voted for them instead of Bonds. But the HOF election process is very serious. What a joke.

[weird-O]

Yeah, but they are part of the era that worked so hard to protect the steroid user from getting caught too !

this opinion was being discussed on the radio this morning. a point that was made, and I agree with, was this. what were the writers supposed to do, openly accuse Bonds, Mac and Sosa? there was no proof.

at the same time, there were writers who were asking questions about all the power hitting that was suddenly unleashed around the sport. but they can't expect them to directly accuse an individual without any evidence.

look how long and deep theose guys had to search to actually uncover Balco

[ivanbalt]

this opinion was being discussed on the radio this morning. a point that was made, and I agree with, was this. what were the writers supposed to do, openly accuse Bonds, Mac and Sosa? there was no proof.

at the same time, there were writers who were asking questions about all the power hitting that was suddenly unleashed around the sport. but they can't expect them to directly accuse an individual without any evidence.

look how long and deep theose guys had to search to actually uncover Balco

Perhaps. But whether they admit it or not, they loved the power hitting. It made the game more popular and made their writing more popular. Now that the curtain has been pulled back, they all want to act righteous and "protect the game".

[weird-O]

Perhaps. But whether they admit it or not, they loved the power hitting. It made the game more popular and made their writing more popular. Now that the curtain has been pulled back, they all want to act righteous and "protect the game".

I think you're opinion is twisting around on itself.

for starters, writing an article about a popular or important subject isn't the same as approving or condoning that subject. there have been plenty of articles written about Saddam Hussein, I seriously doubt all those authors approved of his killing innocent Kurds.

"they all want to act righteous" come on man, Bond & Clemens each got over 30% so someone was voting for them. it was the writers who exposed the problem and informed us about it. Bonds sure didn't voluntarily hold a press confrence to tell us he was juicing.

I've heard interviews with multiple voters. there is a developing consensus that they didn't vote for thse guys because they feel like they don't know enough about the issues to make a good decision on it yet. also, they know they have 15 years to make these dicisions. what's the rush? this isn't the first time no one was inducted. it's happened many times

[bmore_ken]

Who the hell voted for Aaron Sele and Reggie Sanders????

I actually thought that about all of those guys that got votes. Bernie Williams was a good player but HOF vote worthy?

[can you hear me now!]

there is a good case to be made that the same people who vote bear some of the responsibility for the problem......a writer will argue that any negative articles they write or present through other media outlets will cost them access and cause "relationship" problems with their subjects....

the really sad part about the entire issue is why guys like bonds and clemens even needed to consider cheating....they were HOF caliber long before they cheated....they torpedoed their own boats through nothing more than selfishness and insecurity...

[LarryN]

I actually thought that about all of those guys that got votes. Bernie Williams was a good player but HOF vote worthy?

While I , too, don't think he is HoF worthy, I'll give the 19 guys that voted for Bernie a pass. He was an integral part of the Yankee Machine in the late '90s.

[Gizmo]

While I , too, don't think he is HoF worthy, I'll give the 19 guys that voted for Bernie a pass. He was an integral part of the Yankee Machine in the late '90s.

Bernie was one of the names that when I was looking at the list yesterday, I knew that he probably wasn't HOF worthy but wished he was. Always liked him as a player, and don't mind that he got a few votes.

[bmore_ken]

While I , too, don't think he is HoF worthy, I'll give the 19 guys that voted for Bernie a pass. He was an integral part of the Yankee Machine in the late '90s.

So was Ken Singleton for the O's in the 70's and 80's but that doesn't make either of them HOF vote worthy

[hector]

Yeah, Cooperstown didn't look like much when I flew the Space Shuttle over it on a couple of my missions.

You're an astronaut (or astronette) - small word. I've spent time at the Johnson Space Center in Houston teaching flight crews before some of the joint missions with the RSA.

[hector]

You post shows a lack of knowledge about Cooperstown. Doubt you ever have been their.

FYI- Dale Murphy got screwed again by HOF voters.

Your post shows a lack of knowledge about the english language. Try "your" instead of "you" and "there" instead of "their" the next time you attempt to correct me.

[hector]

I think that's where all ths is headed too. Things are going to become very interesting in the upcoming years. And some players will be sacrificed. And while some Writers/Voter may just be making a statement they may be creating a situation of unexpected consequences.

Consider this:
These are among the players becoming eligible the next 5 years.
2014: Tom Glavine, Luis Gonzalez, Jeff Kent, Greg Maddux, Mike Mussina, Frank Thomas
2015: Carlos Delgado, Randy Johnson, Pedro Martínez, Gary Sheffield, John Smoltz
2016: Jim Edmonds, Ken Griffey, Jr., Trevor Hoffman, Billy Wagner
2017: Vladimir Guerrero, Jorge Posada, Manny Ramirez, Iván Rodríguez, Miguel Tejada, Jason Varitek, Tim Wakefield
2018: Chipper Jones, Omar Vizquel, Hideki Matsui


Now let's say Writers/Voters decide to not vote anyone in again for the next 2 years just to make a point.
Now fast-forward to 2016 and the continually-growing list includes:

1) McGwire
2) Sosa
3) Palmeiro
4) Bonds
5) Clemens
6) Biggio
7) Bagwell
8) Piazza
9) Glavine
10) Maddux
11) F Thomas
12) Smoltz
13) R Johnson
14) Griffey

If a Writer/Voter can ONLY ad a MAX of 10 players of their Ballot it's going to be hard for ANY of them get get the required 75%. You could have a situaton where all of them get 64-73% but none reach 75% because each is left off several ballots due to differing ideologies.

So what chance do the following players have in the future to get 75% (when these other 14 players are already creating a log jam)?:
1) Mike Mussina
2) Curt Schilling
3) Perdo Martinez
4) Lee Smith
5) Trevor Hoffman
6) Tim Raines
7) Edgar Martinez
8) Jack Morris
9) Jeff Kent
10) Carlos Delgado
11) Gary Sheffield
12) Billy Wagner

The only thing that is certain is that these 12 players will be taking up some of the 75% (or maybe even the 5%) of the spots needed to be elected. But many of these 12 will have very low votes counts because the 14 players listed above will be taking many of the votes.
That's 26 names listed above and a MAX of 10 can be placed on any one ballot. It's going to be a momunental task to reach 75%.

And in following years, more players will create an even bigger logjam, making it even harder.....for everyone.
You see it was just a lot easier to get 75% when you're one of 4 or 5 great players out of a pool of 25 other mediorce players to get one of those 10 spots on a ballot, than it is if your're one of 25-30 great players along with 25 other mediocre players fighting for one of those same 10 slots.

You think there's controversy now ???????

The first name on your list for 2017 is an absolute lock, unless some team wakes up and signs him to keep playing. That's the only thing that will delay his well-deserved induction into the HOF.

[weird-O]

there is a good case to be made that the same people who vote bear some of the responsibility for the problem......a writer will argue that any negative articles they write or present through other media outlets will cost them access and cause "relationship" problems with their subjects....

the really sad part about the entire issue is why guys like bonds and clemens even needed to consider cheating....they were HOF caliber long before they cheated....they torpedoed their own boats through nothing more than selfishness and insecurity...

two very good points.