The Sun had to go pond scum on Ray and drudge up 13 years ago

[jonsensback]

Before his possibly last game as a raven?

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/mar...,7080263.story

The poor victims who were knife and gun wielding thugs themselves.

After this last subcription, I will never give the Baltimore Sun another dime or minute to read.

PS: I can't believe I'm the only one who noticed this or objects to it on this forum?

[PEZ]

I never give a dime to the Sun. They are crazy to charge for subscriptions. There are ways around getting those nasty message that pop up.

[jonsensback]

I never give a dime to the Sun. They are crazy to charge for subscriptions. There are ways around getting those nasty message that pop up.

I don't either except for the weekend paper, but that will be history. This forum will be history also if I ever have to pay

[HAIL2BNG]

It's part of his legacy regardless of whether people think he is guilty or innocent.

[JasonM]

Poorly written article, but it's part of his legacy. Nothing new to get worked up about either, as long as his team is in the playoffs, there will be articles like this. When he's enshrined in Canton, there will articles like this. If the Ravens make the Super Bowl, media day questions will be a repeat of 2001. So be it.

[Andy in Hagerstown]

It is part of who Ray Lewis is and it always will be. We always want to remember Ray for all the glory. But the man he is today is in part because of what happened 13 years ago. We shouldn't forget about that anymore than we should forget about 9/11.

[cprenegade]

The USA today ran an article about Ray Lewis and those killings today as well. http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports...-2000/1566198/ It's fair enough. It doesn't matter that Ray Lewis is a Baltimore icon, or a first ballot hall of famer, that night happened and it is part of his legacy. Ray Lewis has been a model citizen both on and off the field since then, but it does not change what went down that night, and there still are some legitimate questions surrounding it. There was blood of one of the victims found in the limo. Ray Lewis white suit was never found. One of the persons in the limo said they heard Ray tell everyone not to talk to anybody. Ray woorked a deal to avoid murder charges, settled out of court on the two civil cases that were brought against him, and his deposition was never made public. None of it points to Ray Lewis committing any murders, but it does leave some unanswered questions. Clearly the families of the victims have questions. And since nobody ever was convicted for the murders, they are right to feel that way. The two victims were questionable characters, but then it sounds like much of Ray Lewis entourage that night was as well. No matter, this story isn't going away, and will likely be dredged up again in 5 years when he is eligible for the hall of fame. His situation is similar to Roethlisbergers in that neither was actually charged with anything, yet there are questionable circumstances surrounding both incidents. I expect Roethlisberger will have the same type of articles following him when he retires.

[Ravens2006]

The problem I think isn't the fact that writers continue to "bring it up". The problem is that they bring it up and only talk about it in the simplest terms, while basically ALWAYS leaving out most of the vital key points that a reader SHOULD be presented with... to make up his / her opinion of the events.

While it may be oversimplifying it... if you tell a story about the big angry guy who punched some small guy in the mouth, then stood over him berating him after he hit the ground... and you leave it at that... 99% of folks are going to assume the big bully is a jerk / rearhole / etc. But if the reality of the same story is that the little guy was drunk and spontaneously groped his girlfriend in a bar... maybe the other guy isn't quite the jerk you would otherwise think.

That's sort of how the Lewis case gets handled by the media in review. That is unfortunate...

[jessup270]

NFL fans are the same all over the league.

Lets be honest, if Ray Lewis had played his entire career in Pittsburgh, do people really think that Baltimore fans would be so enamored with Ray Lewis and his NFL accomplishments, not likely.

[NCBirdfan]

The problem I think isn't the fact that writers continue to "bring it up". The problem is that they bring it up and only talk about it in the simplest terms, while basically ALWAYS leaving out most of the vital key points that a reader SHOULD be presented with... to make up his / her opinion of the events.

While it may be oversimplifying it... if you tell a story about the big angry guy who punched some small guy in the mouth, then stood over him berating him after he hit the ground... and you leave it at that... 99% of folks are going to assume the big bully is a jerk / rearhole / etc. But if the reality of the same story is that the little guy was drunk and spontaneously groped his girlfriend in a bar... maybe the other guy isn't quite the jerk you would otherwise think.

That's sort of how the Lewis case gets handled by the media in review. That is unfortunate...

The media are not interested in truth. They want to stoke the fires so that many tune in...and many do. The truth is boring. Throwing out numerous unprovable accusations is what sells it seems.

[cprenegade]

The media are not interested in truth. They want to stoke the fires so that many tune in...and many do. The truth is boring. Throwing out numerous unprovable accusations is what sells it seems.

But that's kind of the problem here. The truth never came out. Two people are dead, and yet nobody was ever convicted and sent to jail. Nobody ever explained where Ray's white suit went, and why. Ray's deposition in the civil case was not made public. Part of what fuels this story is the fact that it is not a clear cut and dried case where the evidence was presented and someone was convicted and sent to jail for the murders. And I agree with Jessup in the respect that if Ray Lewis were retiring on a 17 year career with Pittsburgh, fans here is Baltimore would be screaming "murderer" despite the fact that no murder charges were ever filed. They already do that with "Rapistberger" despite the ironic similarities in their cases in that no charges were filed against either.

[Flu]

The USA today ran an article about Ray Lewis and those killings today as well. http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports...-2000/1566198/ It's fair enough. It doesn't matter that Ray Lewis is a Baltimore icon, or a first ballot hall of famer, that night happened and it is part of his legacy. Ray Lewis has been a model citizen both on and off the field since then, but it does not change what went down that night, and there still are some legitimate questions surrounding it. There was blood of one of the victims found in the limo. Ray Lewis white suit was never found. One of the persons in the limo said they heard Ray tell everyone not to talk to anybody. Ray woorked a deal to avoid murder charges, settled out of court on the two civil cases that were brought against him, and his deposition was never made public. None of it points to Ray Lewis committing any murders, but it does leave some unanswered questions. Clearly the families of the victims have questions. And since nobody ever was convicted for the murders, they are right to feel that way. The two victims were questionable characters, but then it sounds like much of Ray Lewis entourage that night was as well. No matter, this story isn't going away, and will likely be dredged up again in 5 years when he is eligible for the hall of fame. His situation is similar to Roethlisbergers in that neither was actually charged with anything, yet there are questionable circumstances surrounding both incidents. I expect Roethlisberger will have the same type of articles following him when he retires.

Now this was a decently written article about the incident. The one on the Sun site did it's best to portray the victims as choir boys and that Ray was the monster that killed them. At least this article called the victims characters into question by saying they were "questionable". I'm sorry but to me just because you are there doesn't necessarily mean you are guilty of killing someone. I'm not saying he wasn't involved of trying to help cover things up but guilty of actual murder he wasn't guilty.

[Ravens2006]

I think the answers to some of the "unanswered" questions are probably fairly obvious.

Ray likely dumped his suit. He probably panicked that there was SOMEBODY'S blood on it. Testimony showed he was involved in trying to break up the fight, he put his hands on people. Anybody's blood / DNA could have been on it. He saw his life flashing before his eyes because of other people's actions, and ditched it.

Nobody was convicted because the two who in all probability did it were put on trial next to an innocent man (innocent of the "murder" charge), the prosecution was handled horribly, and the D.A.'s office introduced so much doubt in their terrible handling of Ray's role that it destroyed the credibility of testimony against the other two.

I'll fully admit, if he played for the Steelers or ANY other team... I wouldn't have watched the online stream of the trial, and probably wouldn't have read 1/20th of the articles about it. But my opinion would then be UNINFORMED. Like most fans outside of Baltimore likely are. Which is why it's a responsibility of the journalists to INFORM their audience. That's what doesn't happen enough. There is no emphasis on informing and painting a bigger picture, it's just about driving up site traffic and social network buzz. Sensationalism plays much better than fact for that purpose. And it's why I have a hard time respecting most modern journalists today...

[NCBirdfan]

But that's kind of the problem here. The truth never came out. Two people are dead, and yet nobody was ever convicted and sent to jail.

Does that mean Lewis is guilty? There are many cases throughout the country, unsolved. It happens. Georgia also has had a history of accusing innocent people. Remember the Olympic bombings fiasco?

Nobody ever explained where Ray's white suit went, and why. Ray's deposition in the civil case was not made public. Part of what fuels this story is the fact that it is not a clear cut and dried case where the evidence was presented and someone was convicted and sent to jail for the murders.

So, because it was never explained properly, Lewis is forever guilty, even though all charges were dropped (except the obstruction of justice charge of course)? Again, there are many other cases unsolved. It doesn't mean the persons of interest are guilty in any way. Lewis was wrong for not coming forward initially. He paid the price for it. The NFL helped him and advised him at the time to cut ties with the "friends" and counselled him. By all accounts he took that advise and has been a model player one and off the field ever since.

And I agree with Jessup in the respect that if Ray Lewis were retiring on a 17 year career with Pittsburgh, fans here is Baltimore would be screaming "murderer" despite the fact that no murder charges were ever filed. They already do that with "Rapistberger" despite the ironic similarities in their cases in that no charges were filed against either.

The difference between Roethlisberger and Lewis was that Roethlisberger's acts were habitual and numerous. Lewis's act was a one-time thing, probably no more than being in the wrong place at the wrong time and hanging out with the wrong people in his youth. The way the accusations played out are the only thing similar. In Lewis's case, after the one mark on his record, by all accounts, he had a spotless record. Roethlisberger...not so much. It took him more time to get things straight. The shotgun wedding was probably helpful for him.
==============
The bottom line is neither you nor I know the hearts of either Roethlisberger or Lewis. Only they know what really happened. We only know what the media feed us.

[cprenegade]

I think the answers to some of the "unanswered" questions are probably fairly obvious.

Ray likely dumped his suit. He probably panicked that there was SOMEBODY'S blood on it. Testimony showed he was involved in trying to break up the fight, he put his hands on people. Anybody's blood / DNA could have been on it. He saw his life flashing before his eyes because of other people's actions, and ditched it.

Nobody was convicted because the two who in all probability did it were put on trial next to an innocent man (innocent of the "murder" charge), the prosecution was handled horribly, and the D.A.'s office introduced so much doubt in their terrible handling of Ray's role that it destroyed the credibility of testimony against the other two.

I'll fully admit, if he played for the Steelers or ANY other team... I wouldn't have watched the online stream of the trial, and probably wouldn't have read 1/20th of the articles about it. But my opinion would then be UNINFORMED. Like most fans outside of Baltimore likely are. Which is why it's a responsibility of the journalists to INFORM their audience. That's what doesn't happen enough. There is no emphasis on informing and painting a bigger picture, it's just about driving up site traffic and social network buzz. Sensationalism plays much better than fact for that purpose. And it's why I have a hard time respecting most modern journalists today...

Does that mean Lewis is guilty? There are many cases throughout the country, unsolved. It happens. Georgia also has had a history of accusing innocent people. Remember the Olympic bombings fiasco?


So, because it was never explained properly, Lewis is forever guilty, even though all charges were dropped (except the obstruction of justice charge of course)? Again, there are many other cases unsolved. It doesn't mean the persons of interest are guilty in any way. Lewis was wrong for not coming forward initially. He paid the price for it. The NFL helped him and advised him at the time to cut ties with the "friends" and counselled him. By all accounts he took that advise and has been a model player one and off the field ever since.
The difference between Roethlisberger and Lewis was that Roethlisberger's acts were habitual and numerous. Lewis's act was a one-time thing, probably no more than being in the wrong place at the wrong time and hanging out with the wrong people in his youth. The way the accusations played out are the only thing similar. In Lewis's case, after the one mark on his record, by all accounts, he had a spotless record. Roethlisberger...not so much. It took him more time to get things straight. The shotgun wedding was probably helpful for him.
==============
The bottom line is neither you nor I know the hearts of either Roethlisberger or Lewis. Only they know what really happened. We only know what the media feed us.

As I said, nothing in anyway points to Ray Lewis having committed murder. I never said Ray Lewis was guilty of anything. I don't believe that Ray Lewis had anything to do with those murders. I simply said there are, even to this day, some unanswered questions. The charges against Ray Lewis were dropped because he agreed to testify. The biggest question pertains as to what Ray Lewis saw, and what he knew about who really committed the murders. It seems very strange that two friends of his bought knifes the day before the murders, the two victims were stabbed, and yet nobody was ever convicted of those crimes. That doesn't make Ray Lewis guilty of anything. But to think that the incident is just going to be swept under the rug, never to be brought up again is unrealistic. And if I were members of the victims family, no matter how questionable they were, I would want the questions answered. As for Roethlisberger, his incident leaves a lot in question as well. But let's be honest, if he was the quarterback for the Ravens and had given them two superbowl rings in three appearances don't you think he would be defended the same way Ray Lewis is?

[Eastside Terp]

ravens fan through and through ........

defended ray against many folks in many cities including at the superbowl in tampa with the facts of the case .......

bottom line is that he didn't have a knife in his hand but he was mixed up with it......

he still has a bunch of kids from a bunch of baby mamas .......

he's a great football player but no one in my family is wearing his jersey .......

[NCBirdfan]

As I said, nothing in anyway points to Ray Lewis having committed murder. I never said Ray Lewis was guilty of anything. I don't believe that Ray Lewis had anything to do with those murders. I simply said there are, even to this day, some unanswered questions. The charges against Ray Lewis were dropped because he agreed to testify. The biggest question pertains as to what Ray Lewis saw, and what he knew about who really committed the murders. It seems very strange that two friends of his bought knifes the day before the murders, the two victims were stabbed, and yet nobody was ever convicted of those crimes. That doesn't make Ray Lewis guilty of anything. But to think that the incident is just going to be swept under the rug, never to be brought up again is unrealistic. And if I were members of the victims family, no matter how questionable they were, I would want the questions answered. As for Roethlisberger, his incident leaves a lot in question as well. But let's be honest, if he was the quarterback for the Ravens and had given them two superbowl rings in three appearances don't you think he would be defended the same way Ray Lewis is?

I would trust Matt Stover as much as any public person, and this this what he has said about Lewis:

For Stover, who played with Lewis for several years, there was no question that Lewis was innocent. "The world is going to always persecute, but the people around you, what they believe," is what’s important, Stover said. "We trust and we believe him."

As Lewis himself and other Ravens have said, Stover believes that the experience changed the player for the better."I do think there are certain points in our lives that force us to change," Stover said. “I think this was definitely a pivotal point in Ray Lewis' life. He went from a boy to a man."

Instead of hanging around with people who would drag him down, Lewis began choosing his friends more carefully, Stover said.When Lewis gave the team the news that he had been charged, Stover said the other players unanimously supported him.

"It was, 'Man, I'm so glad to see you, we love you man,'" Stover recalled. '"Let’s move on as a team.'" Stover also wanted the world to know that Lewis is primarily motivated by his Christian faith, and that he would carry that with him after retiring from the sport.

"Ray wants to use that for His glory," Stover said of Lewis' talents on the field. "Not for his own."

[NCBirdfan]

ravens fan through and through ........

defended ray against many folks in many cities including at the superbowl in tampa with the facts of the case .......

bottom line is that he didn't have a knife in his hand but he was mixed up with it......

he still has a bunch of kids from a bunch of baby mamas .......

he's a great football player but no one in my family is wearing his jersey .......

My posts are about Lewis's innocence, according to the law, etc. I do not idolize any athlete and I do not wear any individual athlete's jersey (with the exception of the free t-shirts given out as promotions).

I don't play for the team and IMHO it is kinda foolish to wear an individual player's jersey - besides, they are very expensive too. I don't care if anyone else wears one; that's all about personal taste. I have team decals on my car, baseball caps, sweatshirts with Ravens logos on them. Anybody here in NC knows I am a die-hard Ravens fan. But I also know the players on the team are human and they have strengths and weaknesses just like the rest of us. They also need to be held accountable for wrongdoings.

In Lewis's case, he was held accountable and paid his price. The people who bring up his past, without putting it in perspective, should be ashamed of themselves.

[TeamofSTEEL]

ravens fan through and through ........

defended ray against many folks in many cities including at the superbowl in tampa with the facts of the case .......

bottom line is that he didn't have a knife in his hand but he was mixed up with it......

he still has a bunch of kids from a bunch of baby mamas .......

he's a great football player but no one in my family is wearing his jersey .......

Spot on, and to be serious for a moment.....I was at the stadium last week and appreciate the heart-felt fondness for Ray the football player; well earned and deserved no doubt.

But I want to know when our society broke down to the point when I hear announcers talking about Ray's family at M&T for the event, comprised of (6)children with (4) women, not a mother in the photo and never raise an eyebrow as if no big deal. Well to me it is, if not for what it says about Ray Lewis, but more what it says about our declining moral standards that it's accepted, defended, and embraced as a new norm as they all herald Ray as a "family" man.

I guess Ray, you taught us if you can afford to pay for as many kids as women you can get pregnant, go for it. As they say, if it feels good do it, right?

[elj1201]

Spot on, and to be serious for a moment.....I was at the stadium last week and appreciate the heart-felt fondness for Ray the football player; well earned and deserved no doubt.

But I want to know when our society broke down to the point when I hear announcers talking about Ray's family at M&T for the event, comprised of (6)children with (4) women, not a mother in the photo and never raise an eyebrow as if no big deal. Well to me it is, if not for what it says about Ray Lewis, but more what it says about our declining moral standards.

I guess Ray, you taught us if you can afford to pay for as many kids as women you can get pregnant, go for it. As they say, if it feels good do it, right?

at least 4 of them aren't the same age like antonio cromarties kids