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Thread: Baltimore City owned property honors Confederate general!

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by MDCivilServant View Post
    To defend the institution of slavery claiming it was self determination absurd. It was anything but self determination.
    Where did I defend slavery or claim it was self determination? Slavery is a horrible institution that I would never defend. I wish that the British never allowed any slaves to be brought to the colonies.

    The Civil War occurred because Lincoln denied the states their right of self determination and independence. Lincoln didn't send troops south to "free the slaves". He sent them to force the states back into the union.

    I hope your not suggesting that slavery was just fine because other governments didn't allow very adult to vote.
    No I am not suggesting that at all.

    You don't need a history degree to know slavery was evil!
    Of course it is evil and it still exists. Why do you say "was" evil?

  2. #22
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    I hope somebody thought to put Fort Sumter on high alert today. The neo~confederates seem a tad more rambunctious than usual this particular morning for some reason.

  3. #23
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    Much ado about nothing - or about revisionism. Baltimore was known as a hotbed for "copperheads" and was occupied by Federal troops. Its probably more historically accurate to have some historical reference to the prevailing confederate sympathies of the time - and it could be useful to serve as a discussion with those who only remember "who won", rather than who lived in the area and how they felt.

    This opinion comes from no neoconfederate. My family of abolitionists sponsored Frederick Douglass in MA - something that split my family apart for generations.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldBay View Post
    Much ado about nothing - or about revisionism. Baltimore was known as a hotbed for "copperheads" and was occupied by Federal troops. Its probably more historically accurate to have some historical reference to the prevailing confederate sympathies of the time - and it could be useful to serve as a discussion with those who only remember "who won", rather than who lived in the area and how they felt.

    This opinion comes from no neoconfederate. My family of abolitionists sponsored Frederick Douglass in MA - something that split my family apart for generations.
    Also Lee had a history here in Baltimore before the war. He was assigned to design and build Fort Carroll, the island fort below the Key Bridge.

    Other historical facts are that parts of MD including the city of Baltimore was very much in support of the south. That is why the guns on Federal Hill were pointing at the city during the occupation of the state by federal troops. Also travel by the federal troops in MD was mostly by water and rail since they were afraid of attacks by civilians. Over 25,000 MD men fought for the Confederacy.

    These are just few facts that some don't want hear. When someone mentions these facts they are often called "neo-confederates" by revisionists as a way to discredit the factual history that they find inconvenient for some reason. These revisionists want people to believe that Lincoln sent troops south to free the slaves and if anyone points out differently then they get called a "neo-confederate" or worse.

    Here is something written at the time by a Boston abolitionist.

    http://lysanderspooner.org/node/44

    On the part of the North, the war was carried on, not to liberate slaves, but by a government that had always perverted and violated the Constitution, to keep the slaves in bondage; and was still willing to do so, if the slaveholders could be thereby induced to stay in the Union. The principle, on which the war was waged by the North, was simply this: That men may rightfully be compelled to submit to, and support, a government that they do not want; and that resistance, on their part, makes them traitors and criminals.

    No principle, that is possible to be named, can be more self-evidently false than this; or more self-evidently fatal to all political freedom. Yet it triumphed in the field, and is now assumed to be established. If it really be established, the number of slaves, instead of having been diminished by the war, has been greatly increased; for a man, thus subjected to a government that he does not want, is a slave. And there is no difference, in principle --- but only in degree --- between political and chattel slavery. The former, no less than the latter, denies a man's ownership of himself and the products of his labor; and [*iv] asserts that other men may own him, and dispose of him and his property, for their uses, and at their pleasure.
    So no, I am no neo-confederate whatever that is supposed to mean. I am just a history buff who understands that Lincoln made us all slaves to the almighty federal government.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smokey 1 View Post
    These revisionists want people to believe that Lincoln sent troops south to free the slaves and if anyone points out differently then they get called a "neo-confederate" or worse.
    No one with more than two brain cells believes that

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmore_ken View Post
    No one with more than two brain cells believes that
    Believes what? That Lincoln sent troops south to free the slaves? Sorry but that is exactly what many people believe.

    BTW, when are you going to respond to the Michael King post on nationals where you say one post of mine is dumb?

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smokey 1 View Post
    Believes what? That Lincoln sent troops south to free the slaves? Sorry but that is exactly what many people believe.

    BTW, when are you going to respond to the Michael King post on nationals where you say one post of mine is dumb?
    Those people are uneducated

  8. #28
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    Baltimore County acquired the park from Baltimore City in 2009:
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/baltimo...7631643546169/

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmore_ken View Post
    Those people are uneducated
    True, but unfortunately uneducated people often raise enough of a stink to affect public policy.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Astute Reader(tm) View Post
    True, but unfortunately uneducated people often raise enough of a stink to affect public policy.
    Sadly we have to take the good with the bad with our representative democracy

  11. #31
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    I don't have any problem with the name of the park.

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