Obama: Gun-control advocates have to listen more

[Smokey 1]

I think we're more likely to be invaded by Martians first...

I hope you are right.

[MDvet]

Meh. We've been through far worse abuses of power by individuals in government and survived.

Term limits and our system of Checks and Balances is a pretty good firewall against widespread tyranny.

Wrong is wrong. Tryanny is still tyranny isolated or widespread.

[MDvet]

I think we're more likely to be invaded by Martians first...

I guess I can find Martians at New Oreleans.

[soulflower]

Wrong is wrong. Tryanny is still tyranny isolated or widespread.

I think you're using the word a little too loosely. How do any of the examples you gave equal the definition of "Tyranny"? Nevermind that some of those things can be overturned by the Courts.

There's a difference between 'abuse of power' and 'tyranny'. Under a real tyrannical environment, you wouldn't have the freedom to speak out against those perceived abuses of power...

[octoburn]

Thats good to know that you believe that the basic natural rights of "life, liberty and property" are just theoretical. It doesn't surprise me that you don't believe we have a right to liberty and property but life? Amazing. Then I suppose you would have no problem if someone decided that you shouldn't live any longer. You and Stalin would have made a nice couple.

Rights have to be recognized in order to be experienced. In theory ~ all of Stalin's and Hitler's victims had natural rights. But I doubt they were able to take any comfort in that. Just look at the way the Confederate Constitution of the secessionist government ~ the one you wished had been successful ~ viewed slavery as something to be maintained in perpetutity and not subject to constitutional removal through amending.

Where were the natural rights of those held by law and constitutiton to forever be another's chattel property?

[pmore108]

Forget the need to rise against a tyrranical government for a bit. I agree that people who think the government is going to kick in your doors and take your guns are a little extreme. It's not extreme to plan for a breakdown in society, even a temporary one where the authorities have little to no control (1992 LA riots, Katrina). I believe having a firearm in a situation like this is extremely valuable. History has shown us that riots (whether after natural disasters or in response to injustice-real or percieved) happen fairly regularly. In my opinion you are much more likely to need a firearm in that type of situation.

[SemiAuto]

I know it's wrong but after 9/11/01 Congress gave the power to do "whatever it takes to prevent another 9/11" to the Executive branch. So the WH and Congress pretty much can do whatever they want as long as there's a threat of future terror attacks.

If Americans not associated with terrorism begin appearing on those Kill Lists, there might be more of an outcry from the general public.

Of course, with them being a secret...

I've got my own reasons as to why this isn't such a big issue but that doesn't make what is going on right. It is the same reason nobody cared that Bush tortured people. They could have taken them out back and shot them and people would not have cared. Whaddya know, they're effectively taking them out back and shooting them and nobody cares.

That said, let's not pretend its not an abuse of power. The kind one expects from tyrannical or authoritarian regimes.

[MDvet]

I think you're using the word a little too loosely. How do any of the examples you gave equal the definition of "Tyranny"?

There's a difference between 'abuse of power' and 'tyranny'. Under a real tyrannical environment, you wouldn't have the freedom to speak out against those perceived abuses of power...

From Merriam-Webster

1: oppressive power <every form of tyranny over the mind of man — Thomas Jefferson>; especially : oppressive power exerted by government <the tyranny of a police state>
2a : a government in which absolute power is vested in a single ruler; especially : one characteristic of an ancient Greek city-state b : the office, authority, and administration of a tyrant
3: a rigorous condition imposed by some outside agency or force <living under the tyranny of the clock — Dixon Wecter>
4: an oppressive, harsh, or unjust act : a tyrannical act <workers who had suffered tyrannies>

Probably not 2a, but others could apply.

Do you think family members of the Border agent that got killed more likely due to "Fast and Furious" believe the federal government is forthcoming with what happened?

[SemiAuto]

I think you're using the word a little too loosely. How do any of the examples you gave equal the definition of "Tyranny"? Nevermind that some of those things can be overturned by the Courts.

There's a difference between 'abuse of power' and 'tyranny'. Under a real tyrannical environment, you wouldn't have the freedom to speak out against those perceived abuses of power...

Not that I exactly agree with the cause but some would say Aaron Swartz. That 'some' being the Anonymous crowd.

[soulflower]

From Merriam-Webster

1: oppressive power <every form of tyranny over the mind of man — Thomas Jefferson>; especially : oppressive power exerted by government <the tyranny of a police state>
2a : a government in which absolute power is vested in a single ruler; especially : one characteristic of an ancient Greek city-state b : the office, authority, and administration of a tyrant
3: a rigorous condition imposed by some outside agency or force <living under the tyranny of the clock — Dixon Wecter>
4: an oppressive, harsh, or unjust act : a tyrannical act <workers who had suffered tyrannies>

Probably not 2a, but others could apply.

None of your examples apply.

Neither the President nor the Legislative branch have Absolute Power. If they do something that isn't Constitutional, it can be challenged in court and overturned by the Judicial Branch.

Do you think Saddam Hussein had to worry about the courts when he was a tyrant?

Do you think family members of the Border agent that got killed more likely due to "Fast and Furious" believe the federal government is forthcoming with what happened?

I don't see how that is relevant to the topic but my two cents is:

The border agent was killed by criminals, not Fast and Furious. Mexican gangsters have no problem getting guns. F&F was a failed attempt at stopping them from getting guns...

[soulflower]

Not that I exactly agree with the cause but some would say Aaron Swartz. That 'some' being the Anonymous crowd.

I'd like to add that Congress has the power to stop the President's Kill List/targeted assassination program. They just collectively don't have the political will to have a big political fight over suspected terrorists. Afterall, terrorists don't vote.

Neither the President, nor Congress have absolute power so I don't think the word 'tyranny' applies...

[SemiAuto]

I'd like to add that Congress has the power to stop the President's Kill List/targeted assassination program. They just collectively don't have the political will to have a big political fight over suspected terrorists. Afterall, terrorists don't vote.

Neither the President, nor Congress have absolute power so I don't think the word 'tyranny' applies...

That the congress or the courts are spineless is hardly an excuse.

[CajunRaven]

Hitler was a dictator. Next.

He had to get elected to become dictator. Next.

[Grindelwald]

He had to get elected to become dictator. Next.

My point, which any intelligent person could have realized, was that Hitler didn't have a congress or any other legislative body to check him like we do in America. No checks and balances. NEXT.

[CajunRaven]

My point, which any intelligent person could have realized, was that Hitler didn't have a congress or any other legislative body to check him like we do in America. No checks and balances. NEXT.

The why not state your point in the first place.

[CajunRaven]

My point, which any intelligent person could have realized, was that Hitler didn't have a congress or any other legislative body to check him like we do in America. No checks and balances. NEXT.

And by the way, shove that any intelligent person stuff up your dark side.
I have no interest in trying to discern what you're thinking. NEXT.

[The Astute Reader(tm)]

My point, which any intelligent person could have realized, was that Hitler didn't have a congress or any other legislative body to check him like we do in America.

Actually, he did. Right up to the point where he staged an emergency so his cronies in the Reichstag could appoint him full emergency powers, whereupon he appointed himself Reichsfurher.

You are undoubtedly a product of our public school system, aren't you?