Miaa football 2013...whose stepping up to challenge Gilman and Chc

[GREYHOUND ALUM]

I think not. One cannot do whatever one wishes to do with his/her money regarding funds for athletes. If that were the case, many a college boaster wouldn't have some issues many have faced, face now, or will face. The same extends to high school sports and thus it's a significant line of questioning in the clearinghouse questionaire.

I'm pretty sure that anybody can pay a kid's tuition if that's the case. Now can they give them money, no but tuition is a different thing.

[hssports]

I think not. One cannot do whatever one wishes to do with his/her money regarding funds for athletes. If that were the case, many a college boaster wouldn't have some issues many have faced, face now, or will face. The same extends to high school sports and thus it's a significant line of questioning in the clearinghouse questionaire.

Well, I guess saying "whatever one wishes" is a little broad. I'm not implying that he is doing anything illegal. I'm sure he is following whatever protocol that Gilman has instituted. There is no reason he can't pay for anyone he designates - including those that are financially able to pay.
He is a wealthy, benevolent person who wants a good football team for Gilman. I don't see anything wrong with that.
If you think all the kids that he had on his team last year were need based then we will agree to disagree.

[agentorange]

I will beat you whatever you want that Loyola won't win the MIAA in the next five years. This much I'm positive about!

The Dons have everything they need to upset the Hounds...as a matter of fact, I'm calling it right now...The Dons will beat Gilman in 2013...

[agentorange]

I will beat you whatever you want that Loyola won't win the MIAA in the next five years. This much I'm positive about!

I'll bet you one of those fine babes you are rumored to carry on your arms at games and tailgates....how bout that

[First_Down]

Well, I guess saying "whatever one wishes" is a little broad. I'm not implying that he is doing anything illegal. I'm sure he is following whatever protocol that Gilman has instituted. There is no reason he can't pay for anyone he designates - including those that are financially able to pay.
He is a wealthy, benevolent person who wants a good football team for Gilman. I don't see anything wrong with that.
If you think all the kids that he had on his team last year were need based then we will agree to disagree.

This is where I think the NCAA would take issue and I would not agree that there is no reason he can't pay for anyone he designates, especially as a represemtative and boaster of the school. But what do I know.

[harcohorns]

This is where I think the NCAA would take issue and I would not agree that there is no reason he can't pay for anyone he designates, especially as a represemtative and boaster of the school. But what do I know.

The only way it would be an issue is if a college coach or booster paid for a kid to go to a particular high school as a means to recruit the player to their university... The only thing the NCAA is concerned with when it comes to high school players is if they are amateurs and if they are eligible academically to play in college... They do not consider getting your high school tuition paid for as pay to play or making the player now a professional.. Just like NCAA scholarship players are still amateurs... High schools are free to offer athletic scholarships all they want as far as NCAA is concerned as long as that scholarship is not used to promise a kid to a particular University.. Also I or anyone else can offer to pay for any kids high school tuition ( or college tuition for that matter) we want and the NCAA has no issue. just as long as we arent coaches or boosters for a particular university and the player chooses that university..


Actually I remember when Danny Manning transfered to Lawrence High (Kansas) from California.. His Das was named the new basketball HC at Lawrence... When Manning went to KU there was some hubub and the NCAA looked into it.. Nothing they could do... All legal... point is NCAA could care less what high school a kid goes to , who pays the tuition etc..

[First_Down]

The only way it would be an issue is if a college coach or booster paid for a kid to go to a particular high school as a means to recruit the player to their university... The only thing the NCAA is concerned with when it comes to high school players is if they are amateurs and if they are eligible academically to play in college... They do not consider getting your high school tuition paid for as pay to play or making the player now a professional.. Just like NCAA scholarship players are still amateurs... High schools are free to offer athletic scholarships all they want as far as NCAA is concerned as long as that scholarship is not used to promise a kid to a particular University.. Also I or anyone else can offer to pay for any kids high school tuition ( or college tuition for that matter) we want and the NCAA has no issue. just as long as we arent coaches or boosters for a particular university and the player chooses that university..


Actually I remember when Danny Manning transfered to Lawrence High (Kansas) from California.. His Das was named the new basketball HC at Lawrence... When Manning went to KU there was some hubub and the NCAA looked into it.. Nothing they could do... All legal... point is NCAA could care less what high school a kid goes to , who pays the tuition etc..

Okay. If true, I understand. Thanks

[RM7]

The Association endorses only need-based financial aid and recommends that assistance to students be granted only on the basis of demonstrated financial need. Any member school that awards financial assistance not based upon determined need to students who participate in Association contest is required annually to submit a disclosure statement of such assistance, detailing both the recipients and the amount of aid granted, to the Executive Director for inclusion in the Annual Report of the Association.


Well this is the MIAA rule on this, so if people are giving money outside the need based financial aid their would be a record.

[harcohorns]

The Association endorses only need-based financial aid and recommends that assistance to students be granted only on the basis of demonstrated financial need. Any member school that awards financial assistance not based upon determined need to students who participate in Association contest is required annually to submit a disclosure statement of such assistance, detailing both the recipients and the amount of aid granted, to the Executive Director for inclusion in the Annual Report of the Association.


Well this is the MIAA rule on this, so if people are giving money outside the need based financial aid their would be a record.

Only if the aide was from the school.. ie.. merit scholarships.. If the money is from an individual and not the school itself then there would be no record sent to MIAA... School sends out a bill and the bill gets paid.. its not like the school is going to decline payment from anyone other than the child's parents.. Most private schools have some students that are sponsored by individuals other than their parents.. Some are paid for by organizations they belong to such a a Catholic Church... I know students at CHC that the their church is paying the tuition...

[RM7]

No it does not say that it says the MIAA only endorses need based aid. Each school sends out the application to an outside company that reviews them and grants aid based on it. Which then everything is reported for tax purposes for the the school. Anything outside of that aid is considered non need based so it has to be reported. So if someone is out their paying for kids outside of this and it's not reported it is a violation. And I know this for a fact.

[harcohorns]

No it does not say that it says the MIAA only endorses need based aid. Each school sends out the application to an outside company that reviews them and grants aid based on it. Which then everything is reported for tax purposes for the the school. Anything outside of that aid is considered non need based so it has to be reported. So if someone is out their paying for kids outside of this and it's not reported it is a violation. And I know this for a fact.

Violation of what? What is the penalty of said violation? When someone says they only "endorse" something then to me that means... anything other than that is simply not endorsed by the association. The schools still do what they want even if its not endorsed by the association. An endorsement is not a rule otherwise their would be listed penalty's for violating said rule..


This is all splitting hairs anyway it is not difficult to get approved for aide though FACTS or any of the other companies for schools with 24k a year tuition.. Unless you make 250k plus and have no bills...

[RM7]

A violation of the rules. No MIAA school is allowed to give athletic scholarships or aid outside the guidelines without it being reported. I’m a little bit more up to speed on the subject after last year.

[First_Down]

Good learning discussion guys!!!!

[harcohorns]

A violation of the rules. No MIAA school is allowed to give athletic scholarships or aid outside the guidelines without it being reported. I’m a little bit more up to speed on the subject after last year.

We are talking about individuals sponsoring kids.. This is talking about the school itself awarding aide... If an individual sponsors a kid it does not get filed with MIAA... Mainly because its only the business of the parents and sponsor..

[RM7]

We are talking about individuals sponsoring kids.. This is talking about the school itself awarding aide... If an individual sponsors a kid it does not get filed with MIAA... Mainly because its only the business of the parents and sponsor..

Yes it does get filed because that would be considered outside aid which falls under the guidelines. Because if someone is just paying for a kids school that could be considered an educational gift. And that would violate their Amateur status according to the MIAA rules. This is why any money given to a player’s tuition outside the schools financial aid program has to be reported.

4. Amateur Status
To be eligible to participate in contests of this Association, a student must be an amateur. As such, he/she may not receive, directly or indirectly, any salary, stipend, incentive, payment, award, gratuity, gift, educational expenses or expense allowance as a result of participation in any sport or sports team. In order to preserve students’ eligibility for college athletics, MIAA athletes are required to adhere to the policies for avoiding “professionalism” as defined by the NCAA.

[eaglesinsider]

It is fairly common practice at all MIAA schools for wealthy alums to either dump money into the general scholarship pool and/or fund scholarships or no-interest loans to potential students. In the second case, the alums have sole control over who they offer the money to because it is their own private money. They are not allowed to approach potential students, but potential students come to them. Before I knew if i was going to get enough institutional money to go to McDonogh I inquired about getting money from a wealthy alum on the Board of Trustees. I ended up getting enough money from the school to cover it, but that option was always there and it was common knowledge that it was there.

[harcohorns]

Yes it does get filed because that would be considered outside aid which falls under the guidelines. Because if someone is just paying for a kids school that could be considered an educational gift. And that would violate their Amateur status according to the MIAA rules. This is why any money given to a player’s tuition outside the schools financial aid program has to be reported.

4. Amateur Status
To be eligible to participate in contests of this Association, a student must be an amateur. As such, he/she may not receive, directly or indirectly, any salary, stipend, incentive, payment, award, gratuity, gift, educational expenses or expense allowance as a result of participation in any sport or sports team. In order to preserve students’ eligibility for college athletics, MIAA athletes are required to adhere to the policies for avoiding “professionalism” as defined by the NCAA.

Still doesn't apply in this situation... That says they cant receive pay for participating in a sport... Again someone paying for them to attend a school ( or sponsoring them) is not pay to play... The kid is under no obligation to play.. now if the school should pull a kids aide because he didn't play a particular sport then you would have a problem ... Athletic Scholarships are aide given to a student that requires the student to play that sport to receive the aide... You don't have that in high school the student is not required to do anything other than be a student in good standing..

Here is an example what could challenge the Amateur status.. Lets say a kid is at a private school and I am a booster for the school. Lets say the kid is a great athlete but chooses not to play football.. If I went to his parents and said I will pay for your kids tuition if he plays football next year then yes that could be pay for play... but even then its dicey because "tuition" to a school is not considered pay for play.. Tuition is to attend the school not to play football.. unless of course playing football is a requirement of the aide.. NCAA Athletic Scholarships do require them to play to receive it.. why are scholarship athletes in college still amateurs? because they don't consider tuition as income...

[harcohorns]

It is fairly common practice at all MIAA schools for wealthy alums to either dump money into the general scholarship pool and/or fund scholarships or no-interest loans to potential students. In the second case, the alums have sole control over who they offer the money to because it is their own private money. They are not allowed to approach potential students, but potential students come to them. Before I knew if i was going to get enough institutional money to go to McDonogh I inquired about getting money from a wealthy alum on the Board of Trustees. I ended up getting enough money from the school to cover it, but that option was always there and it was common knowledge that it was there.

Correct and as long as that money was for school costs and had no requirements to play a particular sport attached it or it was not given as a reward for athletic performance then there is no issue..

[RM7]

It is fairly common practice at all MIAA schools for wealthy alums to either dump money into the general scholarship pool and/or fund scholarships or no-interest loans to potential students. In the second case, the alums have sole control over who they offer the money to because it is their own private money. They are not allowed to approach potential students, but potential students come to them. Before I knew if i was going to get enough institutional money to go to McDonogh I inquired about getting money from a wealthy alum on the Board of Trustees. I ended up getting enough money from the school to cover it, but that option was always there and it was common knowledge that it was there.

Your right and all of those funds and scholarships are reported.

[RM7]

Still doesn't apply in this situation... That says they cant receive pay for participating in a sport... Again someone paying for them to attend a school ( or sponsoring them) is not pay to play... The kid is under no obligation to play.. now if the school should pull a kids aide because he didn't play a particular sport then you would have a problem ... Athletic Scholarships are aide given to a student that requires the student to play that sport to receive the aide... You don't have that in high school the student is not required to do anything other than be a student in good standing..

Here is an example what could challenge the Amateur status.. Lets say a kid is at a private school and I am a booster for the school. Lets say the kid is a great athlete but chooses not to play football.. If I went to his parents and said I will pay for your kids tuition if he plays football next year then yes that could be pay for play... but even then its dicey because "tuition" to a school is not considered pay for play.. Tuition is to attend the school not to play football.. unless of course playing football is a requirement of the aide.. NCAA Athletic Scholarships do require them to play to receive it.. why are scholarship athletes in college still amateurs? because they don't consider tuition as income...

I know and everyone else on here knows were not talking about regular students. We are talking about students that play football, basketball, and other sports. When you have people that try and put up a smoke screen and cover it up is the issue. It’s plan and simple if someone gets aid outside the school based system it needs to be reported. If it's not reported then it's a violation and it could turn into something not good. Like some have said alum set up funds for this and it's reported to meet what the aid doesn’t cover. But you don't see alum going over to someone’s house and dropping off a check every week do? That doesn’t work out to well in college and it would be even worse in high school. You spin it anyway you want but that is the rule.