"Redskins" are history!

[ApacheDakota]

You are correct. The majority of Native Americans don't find the team name offensive:

As a Native American, I find the team name offensive.

[weird-O]

As a Native American, I find the team name offensive.

do you care to elaborate on that?

[Marchetti]

Originally Posted by HAIL2BNG
Nice selective quoting, Petunia Petulance.

really?
lol How old are you?

[HAIL2BNG]

Old enough to spot a disingenuous quote field when I see one. Nice try. (you may want to not try the name calling if you don't want it tossed back at you, kiddo)

[Marchetti]

Nothing disingenuous at all about the highlighted quotes.
They are all real and from credible people.
They don't favor your point of view so you call them disingenuous but all the ones I highlighted speak louder than the measly two you pulled. Yes some Indians aren't offended which everyone acknowledges but more and more and more have been and ARE offended which you conveniently ignore.




(pointing out your constant childishness isn't "name calling", nice try.)

[Marchetti]

...and the reason you conveniently ignore quotes like those and disingenuously label them disingenuous is because they speak loudly to the very lame justifications r-word apologists like yourself constantly rebleat and rebleat.


(part of your childishness on display is your name calling of another poster a "moron", oh the irony)

[HAIL2BNG]

You're the only one ignoring quotes. I've said that there are a few who like to speak for the larger group yet when the larger group is polled, they overhwelmingly say they aren't offended. Typical of someone like you to latch on to the loudmouth activivists.

[Rael]

You're the only one ignoring quotes. I've said that there are a few who like to speak for the larger group yet when the larger group is polled, they overhwelmingly say they aren't offended. Typical of someone like you to latch on to the loudmouth activivists.

I bet the large majority of white people aren't offended by "honky". I'm know I'm not. In fact, I would find it kind of amusing to be called that. However, I doubt you could name a team like that without serious public perception issues.

[HAIL2BNG]

White people aren't raised to find every mention of their color or race to be offensive the way minorities are. Honky died in the 70's because white people didn't care.

[Peej7245]

..."honky"...However, I doubt you could name a team like that without serious public perception issues.

Yes, it would be stupid to assign that name given the hypersensitivity prevalent in today's society.

However, we are talking about team names adopted as many as 70 or 80 years ago.

[JasonM]

"It doesn't seem to matter to Washington officials that the most recent poll increasingly shows mass hatred of the name by American Indians. Indian Country Today, the largest Native American magazine, found that 81 percent of respondents found such images disparaging to Native Americans"

From here:
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/mi...skins-nickname

[Rael]

Yes, it would be stupid to assign that name given the hypersensitivity prevalent in today's society.

However, we are talking about team names adopted as many as 70 or 80 years ago.

Native Americans are 1.2 percent of the population of the U.S. If Hail's numbers are correct about only 10% of them being offended (although I doubt they are today based on the post above this one) then the numbers shake out as such. I round down the U.S. population to 300 million then there are 3,600,000 Native Americans with 360,000 of them that are offended by the name Redskins. Here is the bottom line for me. With something as public as a sports franchise, why offend 360,000 people when by changing it so you don't you will generate (again as Hail said) a whole lot of new merchandise sales and generate good will around the decision?

[codefool]

Brainwashing, and ambushing unspecting fools to attend these so called conferences and then shame thing into renoucing things other people feel are incorrect thought. The equivelent of the re-education camps in the USA.

[weird-O]

Native Americans are 1.2 percent of the population of the U.S. If Hail's numbers are correct about only 10% of them being offended (although I doubt they are today based on the post above this one) then the numbers shake out as such. I round down the U.S. population to 300 million then there are 3,600,000 Native Americans with 360,000 of them that are offended by the name Redskins. Here is the bottom line for me. With something as public as a sports franchise, why offend 360,000 people when by changing it so you don't you will generate (again as Hail said) a whole lot of new merchandise sales and generate good will around the decision?

and now for an even more focused calculation. how many of those 360K people are in the Washington DC area?

the DC metro area has an estimated Native American population of .3% of their 5.7M people. that's about 171K. holding with the idea that 10% of them are offended by the name. that's 17.1K offended people.

that promps the question, how many of them are would-be football fans who won't embrace or support the team because of the name?

it's estimated that 64% of Americans follow football. so, of those offended, roughly 11K are potential redskins fans who are offended by the name. and how many footbakll fans go to games? if it's less than 100%, that 11K gets reduced even more.

what kind of political clout do they hold to get the attention of decision makers inside or outside of the organization? probably not much at all.

[Rael]

and now for an even more focused calculation. how many of those 360K people are in the Washington DC area?

the DC metro area has an estimated Native American population of .3% of their 5.7M people. that's about 171K. holding with the idea that 10% of them are offended by the name. that's 17.1K offended people.

that promps the question, how many of them are would-be football fans who won't embrace or support the team because of the name?

it's estimated that 64% of Americans follow football. so, of those offended, roughly 11K are potential redskins fans who are offended by the name. and how many footbakll fans go to games? if it's less than 100%, that 11K gets reduced even more.

what kind of political clout do they hold to get the attention of decision makers inside or outside of the organization? probably not much at all.

I'm quite sure that if there were a Washington N'word team name that it would offend those that live beyond the DC area.

[Marchetti]

Originally Posted by HAIL2BNG
You're the only one ignoring quotes.

Wrong.
You cherry pick what you like from the few and continue to ignore the quotes that matter, from the many Indians. ALL the quotes below are from CREDIBLE leaders in the NA community. There's not a "loudmouth activist" in the bunch as you childishly put it.
To dismiss them and their opinions is sticking your head in the sand.
The only "loudmouth activist" here is you!

Most Indians would prefer to see the Redskins name discarded.
“If it went through a vote [of Indians], I think it would be overwhelming to drop it.
I’ve always thought the word [Redskins] was very offensive,” said George Tiger, chief of the Muscogee (Creek) Nation, which is also based in Oklahoma and has 75,000 members.
All major Native American organizations have formally called on sports teams to discard Indian names and mascots.
“Redskins is a racial slur for North American Indians.”
Allen doesn’t understand (or won’t acknowledge) that it’s not up to him, a white man, to decide what offends Native Americans.
linky

Originally Posted by HAIL2BNG
I've said that there are a few who like to speak for the larger group yet when the larger group is polled, they overhwelmingly say they aren't offended.

Wrong.
It's already established that the above quotes are not "a few who like to speak for the many". They are credible leaders echoing the voices of the many.
You site as gospel "a" survey thats nearly 10 years old and is "highly flawed".
A sampling of 768 "supposed" NA's"??? lol
seriously?

Typical of someone like you to latch on to the loudmouth activivists.

Child please.
I highlighted quotes from LEADERS who echo the voices of a huge sampling of the majority of NA's.
You, a white guy with no credibility dismiss the only credible people in the discussion and then site an old flawed poll of a questionable few as gospel.

It's what is to be expected of an desperate r-word apologist who is losing the discussion badly and constantly deflects credible points and quotes "as if" they (the quotes and who said them) don't matter. Obviously they don't matter to you we get that but thats your ignorance......they do[ matter.

In the end all that ultimately will matter is that the vulgar, racist r-word name will be gone.

To quote Robert Holden, deputy director of the National Congress of American Indians, the largest, oldest and most representative organization of Native American tribes....
“They’re saying that it’s an honor. They’re not taking our word for it, Native people’s word for it, that ......
we don’t want this”.

[HAIL2BNG]

Yep, you have two people speaking for thousands and every time the thousands are asked, they don't agree. Why don't the Indians take their own polls. They can use some of the money they don't pay in taxes to do it.

[Marchetti]

Originally Posted by HAIL2BNG
Yep, you have two people speaking for thousands

Wrong.
All major Native American organizations have formally called on sports teams to discard Indian names and mascots.
I've quoted more than just 2.
ESPN'S Outside The Lines just yesterday had PGA Golfer Notah Begay and another NA. They all "echo" the voice of millions.

and every time the thousands are asked, they don't agree.

Thousands?
The one outdated, flawed poll you site said that only 768 we're polled.
The suspect methodology has been challenged and questioned.

Why don't the Indians take their own polls.

They have! (take your head out of the sand)
The newspaper Indian Country Today conducted a poll that found that 81 percent of respondents find the images disparaging to Native Americans and that 75 percent said they seemed to violate anti-discrimination laws, as they were described by poll workers.[/B]

They can use some of the money they don't pay in taxes to do it.

Nice. A racist broad brush statement that almost as offensive as the r-word.
FYI....22 percent of American Indians and Alaska Natives live on reservations or other trust lands. 60 percent of American Indians and Alaska Natives live in metropolitan areas. linky

[HAIL2BNG]

20 percent? Using your math, that's all of them.

[Marchetti]

my math?

Childish replies like this just serve to bury you deeper.

You're only discourse is a failed attempt to trivialize.