"Redskins" are history!

[Marchetti]

one bloggers opinion/take of yesterdays OUTSIDE THE LINES program on ESPN where the discussion was about the racist and offensive r-word.

The program first featured highlights from a recent symposium discussing the controversy inherent in the name, and played a clip in which Washington general manager Bruce Allen said “it’s ludicrous to think in any way that we’re trying to upset anybody,” which of course missed the point entirely. You’re not trying to offend people? No s***, dude – we know you don’t want to offend anyone. We know that you wish you could make every offended party take a magic pill that would wipe out any indignation at the name, so you could keep on using it guilt-free. The problem is that it actually does offend people, even though you don’t want it to. But that’s a more difficult, nuanced issue to deal with, so you’d rather not see things that way.
linky

lmao
well said!

(of course HAIL2BNY will disagree)

[HAIL2BNG]

I am offended that they suddenly became offended by something that has existed for over 80 years. I demand they stop being offended and have a better drink policy at their casinos.

[Eastside Terp]

Yep, you have two people speaking for thousands and every time the thousands are asked, they don't agree. Why don't the Indians take their own polls. They can use some of the money they don't pay in taxes to do it.

I agree it's better to just let you speak for all the native americans ........

while you are at it, let us know what african american and jews find offensive as well ........

that makes it a lot easier .......

you are a piece of work ......

[HAIL2BNG]

I agree it's better to just let you speak for all the native americans ........

while you are at it, let us know what african american and jews find offensive as well ........

that makes it a lot easier .......

you are a piece of work ......

And you can't read. I don't think a few people should ever speak for thousands or more. For some reason people always let that happen for minorities.

[Marchetti]

His only hope and discourse is to trivialize the discussion.
It's all he has left. Nothing.

[HAIL2BNG]

I have a football team that is and will remain named the REDSKINS.

[weird-O]

I'm quite sure that if there were a Washington N'word team name that it would offend those that live beyond the DC area.

I'm certain you're right, but no one in the Skins org is going to care if some people from the Dakotas are offended? they have no impact on the team's fortunes.

everyone knows the name offends people. but they are people who don't matter to the team's finances, so nothing will change. it's no more complicated than that. without political or economic clout, their protesting does nothing more than satisfy their desire to protest. this thread is a perfect example of that.

of all the people who are offended by the name, has anyone done anything about it? has anyone contacted any Native American group to offer their time or financial support? if so, maybe they will comment on their experience of doing so.

Gino is the most outspoken on the subject. maybe he'll share his experiences of how he got out from behind the keyboard and did something to try and change a situation that he obviously feels very passionate about.

[Marchetti]

The name will change, there is no doubt about that what so ever.
How tightly n-word apologists desperately cling to their beloved, hurtful and offensive name is not a concern. As you'll see later below, people can, do and will change.

Originally Posted by weird-O
Gino is the most outspoken on the subject. maybe he'll share his experiences of how he got out from behind the keyboard and did something to try and change a situation that he obviously feels very passionate about.

lol
Trivialize and deflect away, thats all r-word apologists have anymore.
This isn't about "me" of course, it's about the NA's who are hurt and offended.

I'll bite anyway.
If there were a rally in dc or in the area I'd of course attend and lend my support for something I believe in.
The Smithsonian Symposium didn't fit my schedule, not that it mattered.
The few r-word fans who did attend and showed up in r-word gear learned from the symposium.

Andre Holland wore his Redskins hat, ear muffs and key chain to the National Museum of the American Indian. When the sessions ended, the 20-year-old student had removed the hat and disavowed the nickname of his lifelong favorite NFL team, having been persuaded that it's as racist as the worst names he might be called as an African-American.

"I really don't feel right wearing this stuff now," Holland said. "And now I can't even say `HTTR'—which is `Hail to the Redskins'—because that's chanting something racist.
I'm going to be a fan of Washington—a `Washington football team.' Not the `Washington Redskins."'

Holland was convinced.
He was one of the few in the partisan crowd who showed up liking the name. As he listened, he started tweeting—and he said the feedback he got opened his eyes.

Near the end of the final session, Holland went to the microphone and compared Redskins to the n-word, then turned around and gave a hug to the Native American standing next in line.
"A serious day for me," Holland said.

(disparaging Andre Holland posts are surely soon to follow)

Panelists and audience members explained why they felt the name was offensive and offered all sorts of ideas—including a protest at training camp and the need to get franchise quarterback Robert Griffin III to speak out.

Great ideas! Anyone wanna join me at training camp?

[weird-O]

lol
Trivialize and deflect away, thats all r-word apologists have anymore.
This isn't about "me" of course, it's about the NA's who are hurt and offended.

so your response to my comment is to call me a redskins apologist and to accuse me of deflecting and trivializing?

nice. now I challenge you to find a single post that proves your assertion. good luck.

if anyone is trivializing this subject, it's you. you've reduced this whole issue into an open-ended opportunity to exchange insults with a poster you obviously don't like. way to make a difference in the world Mr. Holier than Thou.

The Smithsonian Symposium didn't fit my schedule

I don't doubt it. with all the hours you log in, on this board, fighting with Hail, how could you possibly find the time to do something positive.

why don't you go put on one of your ravens jerseys and fill some more threads with posts in which you tell the rest of us the many reasons why you're a much better fan than everyone else.

[HAIL2BNG]

That poor Holland kid got attacked by the activists and was properly indoctrinated.

[Marchetti]

Originally Posted by weird-O
so your response to my comment is to call me a redskins apologist and to accuse me of deflecting and trivializing?nice. now I challenge you to find a single post that proves your assertion. good luck.

I did that already when you jumped in and made your comment about me instead of sticking to the topic. It doesn't take much for anyone to scroll back and see where I've posted substance in the form of quote's from NA's. The only one's derailing the thread to make it personal is clearly Hail and now you. Don't fault me for not letting either of you get away with it.

Originally Posted by weird-O
if anyone is trivializing this subject, it's you. you've reduced this whole issue into an open-ended opportunity to exchange insults with a poster you obviously don't like. way to make a difference in the world Mr. Holier than Thou.

Wrong.
Clearly I'm posting documented quotes and reasoning from NA's...and then I get insulted for it by HAIL, the "trivialization" is all his...and now yours.
I don't need to trade insults, I just have to point out how his very words constantly betray him, it's very easy.

Originally Posted by weird-O
I don't doubt it. with all the hours you log in, on this board, fighting with Hail, how could you possibly find the time to do something positive.

I was waiting for the lame "you must live here card!"
Hail = 15,026
weird-o = 10,605
me = 3,870
I only stepped in on this thread after nobody else seemed willing to swat away Hail's constant childishness and misinformation, nothing more/nothing less. You use the word "fighting", Hail uses words like "argument" and "losing", I've use words like "discussion" and "discourse", our differing views about this are very telling.
It doesn't take much time at all to peek in and type a response.

why don't you go put on one of your ravens jerseys and fill some more threads with posts in which you tell the rest of us the many reasons why you're a much better fan than everyone else.

now I challenge you to find a single post that proves your assertion. good luck.

[Marchetti]

Originally Posted by HAIL2BNG
That poor Holland kid got attacked by the activists and was properly indoctrinated.

lol, as predicted you don't disappoint.

Actually, unlike you, he matured and grew as a person, he took his head out of the sand and he "learned" something...and he'll still and always will be a fan of the team inspite of it's racist name.
He's a better and bigger person for it.

[weird-O]

I did that already when you jumped in and made your comment about me instead of sticking to the topic. It doesn't take much for anyone to scroll back and see where I've posted substance in the form of quote's from NA's. The only one's derailing the thread to make it personal is clearly Hail and now you. Don't fault me for not letting either of you get away with it.

this is proof that you're just looking for reasons to be offended and to cry foul. I didn't insult you or derail the conversation. I asked if those, who take great offense to the name, were actively protesting beyond pounding the keys in this thread. if you're going to claim the high ground in a debate, you should be prepared to be held as an example. I know I am when I take a strong stance on an issue (here and elsewhere).

Clearly I'm posting documented quotes and reasoning from NA's...and then I get insulted for it by HAIL, the "trivialization" is all his...and now yours.
I don't need to trade insults, I just have to point out how his very words constantly betray him, it's very easy.

but but the bulk of your contributions to this thread consist of name calling and bickering.

I was waiting for the lame "you must live here card!"
Hail = 15,026
weird-o = 10,605
me = 3,870

Hail called you out for cherry picking info. I can see why. I've been on this board for many more years than you. and Hail has been here longer than me. so that may have something to do with the number of posts.

I only stepped in on this thread after nobody else seemed willing to swat away Hail's constant childishness and misinformation, nothing more/nothing less.

thank you for saving us from the evil redskins fan and the spreading of his lies. where would this board be without fine moral people such as yourself. this lends to my comment about you being Holier than thou. and it also leads to my comment about you playing the role of the #1 super fan

now I challenge you to find a single post that proves your assertion. good luck.

that's easy. do you actually want me to link to a post, or is it ok if I just refer to one. the thread about remembering the Colts gave us plenty of examples. you ripped a whole segment of the fan base for not paying proper homage to the colts. and to prove to us that you are the #1 super fan, you pimped your ravens Unitas jersey to prove it to us. that whole thread was splattered with your comments about how you're so much better than the horrible ravens fans who don't care about the colts as much as you do.

here's some truth sparky. know you're place. you don't get to tell people how to be a fan. and only idiots who take sports too seriously even try. if I want to piss on a #52 jersey, I'll do so. you aren't a ravens cop. you hold no authority on the subject. you're opinion means nothing.

I know you will try to keep this going. you're demonstrating all the characteristics of bickering Betty. but I don't come here to exchange insults. so have fun in whatever cherry picked, twisted reply you concoct in an effort to bait me into continuing the argument.

[Marchetti]

Originally Posted by weird-O
this is proof that you're just looking for reasons to be offended and to cry foul. I didn't insult you or derail the conversation. I asked if those, who take great offense to the name, were actively protesting beyond pounding the keys in this thread. if you're going to claim the high ground in a debate, you should be prepared to be held as an example. I know I am when I take a strong stance on an issue (here and elsewhere).

umm, no, it's not proof of anything.
Where did I claim "high ground"? I haven't. I post quote's here from NA's relaying what they say and feel in opposition to the silly claims and reasoning of Hail for the most part...and sometimes inject my opinion like everyone else. I don't claim to be any kind of leading advocate, merely one of a hopefully growing list that isn't afraid to speak out on behalf of the NA's cause and can speak publicly as I do to aquaintances if the topic comes up or on forums like these when the topic comes up. My involvement in the topics overall grand scheme of things is very minor and limited and I don't attach any "importance" to it so please, I don't need to be "held as an example" to participate in a discussion here. Don't hurt your arm for patting yourself on your back for being a glowing example.

Originally Posted by weird-O
but but the bulk of your contributions to this thread consist of name calling and bickering.

No, thats what Hail does, I answer back in kind. I certainly wish he'd stay on topic but he can't.

Hail called you out for cherry picking info. I can see why. I've been on this board for many more years than you. and Hail has been here longer than me. so that may have something to do with the number of posts.

Sorry but his attempt at that failed and now so has yours.
I pulled and highlighted about 6 or 7 really important quotes from an article with a link provided, stuff he loves to ignore.
He pulled a whole 2 quotes that if you understand the context of the quotes he pulled against the context of the quotes I pulled didn't change anything so his "claim" about cherry picking info was laughable.

As for your claim: My sign on date was Jan 10th, 2008, you October 1st, 2004 and Hail July 22nd, 2003.
You've been here 1,107 more days than I have but you have a whopping 6,735 more posts. Hail has been here 1,542 days longer than me but he has an astronomical 11,156 more posts than I do.
Please tell me again how I'm "cherry picking" info to make you look bad?

Originally Posted by weird-O
thank you for saving us from the evil redskins fan and the spreading of his lies. where would this board be without fine moral people such as yourself. this lends to my comment about you being Holier than thou. and it also leads to my comment about you playing the role of the #1 super fan

lol as I posted right before that "I only stepped in on this thread after nobody else seemed willing to swat away Hail's constant childishness and misinformation, nothing more/nothing less."
no moral high ground, no self importance...that's your sarcasm and exaggeration. Nice try

that's easy. do you actually want me to link to a post, or is it ok if I just refer to one. the thread about remembering the Colts gave us plenty of examples. you ripped a whole segment of the fan base for not paying proper homage to the colts. and to prove to us that you are the #1 super fan, you pimped your ravens Unitas jersey to prove it to us. that whole thread was splattered with your comments about how you're so much better than the horrible ravens fans who don't care about the colts as much as you do.

"ripped"? I have strong feelings about how I feel the old colts have been ignored. It comes from hearing the old colts themselves talk about it. I don't recall ripping other fans but I do have a problem with Ravens fans who tell me and other older fans "to get over it or move on". I hear that constantly on radio talk shows. If you don't like that, too bad.
I certainly don't think I'm any bigger a fan or better a fan than any other fan including you, if thats your childish interpretation of any of my posts thats your problem but like Hail, I'm not going to apologize for being a true fan.

"Pimp" my Unitas jersey? Do you mean I mentioned it? Because I certainly don't rent it out to anyone. I'm far from the only Ravens fan that has one.
My comments contrary to your claims weren't about me and how much better I am compared to unappreciative Ravens fans, I'm sorry you interpreted them that way. If my attempts at trying to get the younger fans to grasp, embrace and appreciate the awesome heritage and legacy that goes with being a "Baltimore" football fan as opposed to just a Ravens fan failed to come across as they were intended, well then I have to improve my approach.

here's some truth sparky. know you're place. you don't get to tell people how to be a fan. and only idiots who take sports too seriously even try. if I want to piss on a #52 jersey, I'll do so. you aren't a ravens cop. you hold no authority on the subject. you're opinion means nothing.

I think I do know my place very well thank you and it isn't any more or less than any other good fan including you. I clearly wasn't trying to tell anyone "how" to be a fan, only that the bigger picture is better than the smaller one imnsho in regards to accepting the old colts and Ravens together as quite a number of us do. I can assure you I don't take sports TOO seriously as it's just a game not real life, to suggest otherwise is to speak about something you don't know, only assume.

If you want to take a dump on a Ray Lewis jersey and piss and puke on a Johnny U jersey you can do that until the cows come home. Outside of thinking you're a big "weird-o" it wouldn't matter a hill of beans to me.The fact that you picture that I would jump in like a cop or even Mighty Mouse just indicates you have a serious interpretation problem but thats you.

I know you will try to keep this going. you're demonstrating all the characteristics of bickering Betty. but I don't come here to exchange insults. so have fun in whatever cherry picked, twisted reply you concoct in an effort to bait me into continuing the argument.

This is silly, I don't want to keep this going at all and I've made that clear. All I've ever wanted was for this to be about the topic of how the R-word's name being history but Hail and now you here briefly/lately aren't allowing that, you want to come after me. You make silly accusations that don't hold up and in the end you don't expect the person to reply? Crazy.

It's ok for Hail to have fun and insult and slap others and me around but I'm not allowed to return serve, got it.

[Marchetti]

note the reference to the song lyrics:

Our greatest connection with them is the anonymous, dehumanized silhouette on mass-produced trinkets that has nothing to do with their noble history or gut-wrenching present. You learn nothing about how they got here, the trail of broken treaties, bison hunted into near-extinction, entire peoples ravaged by smallpox and the Indian wars, then decades of forced assimilation that stripped away their culture one custom and native word at a time. Instead of being as revolted by the subjugation as we are by our nation’s slave-owning past, we sell a dog leash covered in Redskins logos for $17.20.
The Native American community is beset by startlingly high rates of suicide, tuberculosis, diabetes, hepatitis, liver disease, mental health disorders. More gang involvement than any racial group. A 60 percent higher infant death rate than Caucasians. They get less education. Don’t live as long.
And supporters of the team wear headdresses to FedEx Field. Can’t name the Piscataway people, Native Americans who populated the Washington region generations ago. Sing the team’s fight song that’s been edited to remove references to scalping and “we want heap more,” implicitly admitting that, yes, these Native American stereotypes are offensive.
from the WASHINGTON Times

[HAIL2BNG]

So if they change the name, I assume their infant mortality rate will skyrocket and diabetes and alcoholism will disappear. I always love activists who pretend to care about certain people and then they spend all of their time and efforts whining about things that won't make those people any better. Typical liberals.

What a horribly written piece. Bringing up all of the woes of the Indians without making any remote connection to the name Redskins is amateur and hackish. I am not surprised you enjoyed it or even think it matters.

[weird-O]

So if they change the name, I assume their infant mortality rate will skyrocket and diabetes and alcoholism will disappear. I always love activists who pretend to care about certain people and then they spend all of their time and efforts whining about things that won't make those people any better. Typical liberals.

What a horribly written piece. Bringing up all of the woes of the Indians without making any remote connection to the name Redskins is amateur and hackish. I am not surprised you enjoyed it or even think it matters.

I was left with the same impression of that article.

anyone who looks into the living conditions of Native Americans will find all these problems exist. it's tragic. but it has nothing to do with the name of the redskins, Chief Knockahoma or the chant at FL State. it's neither mitigated or exacerbated by these sports elements.

the Skins could change their name to the Constituents
the Indians could change their name to the Lakers
FL State could change their name to the Aligators

and ther Rez. would still have these problems.

[Marchetti]

lol thats it.
Conveniently ignore the BOLD point of the post:

supporters of the team wear headdresses to FedEx Field. Can’t name the Piscataway people, Native Americans who populated the Washington region generations ago. Sing the team’s fight song that’s been edited to remove references to scalping and “we want heap more,” implicitly admitting that, yes, these Native American stereotypes are offensive.

...as you focus on the the ill's of NA's and what it may or may not have to do with the article I'm sorry you missed the writers point.
The point was that those in FedEx field who wear the regalia and sing the racist song and cheer the racist name claim to be "honoring" when they don't know anything about NA's or the real conditions and problems of NA's...let alone honor them by helping them.

At least thats what one would do "

if you're going to claim the high ground in a debate, you should be prepared to be held as an example. I know I am when I take a strong stance on an issue (here and elsewhere)...Originally Posted by weird-O.

" right?

[HAIL2BNG]

Oh since the writer of that piece claims the fans can't name the Piscataway people, THAT will fix everything. Gotcha. Great argument. If people weren't so homohobic, AIDS would go away too.

[weird-O]

lol thats it.
Conveniently ignore the BOLD point of the post:



...as you focus on the the ill's of NA's and what it may or may not have to do with the article I'm sorry you missed the writers point.
The point was that those in FedEx field who wear the regalia and sing the racist song and cheer the racist name claim to be "honoring" when they don't know anything about NA's or the real conditions and problems of NA's...let alone honor them by helping them.

At least thats what one would do "" right?

wow, you're really intent on continuing a fight with me.