Have the Ravens surpassed the Baltimore Colts legacy?

[weird-O]

Do you think that todays yankee fans don't appreciate Ruth, Gehrig, DiMaggio & Mantle and 27 rings?

this doesn't seem like a good comparison because it's one team from start to finish and they didn't leave NY. a better example would be to ask if Mets fans tie their histoy to the Giants and Dodgers. do Philly fans tie the A's history to the Phillies, or does St Louis tie the Cardinals history to the Rams. I doubt any of these fan bases do that. as an O's fan, I don't attach the Birds to the StL Browns.

rest assured, no one is forgetting the Baltimore Colts. look at the discussions about putting up statues for the Colt HOFers. they are part of our collective conscious. but the Colts won't mean as much to younger fans, as they do to you and those who saw them play.

[durango46]

THIS is what I'll never understand.

I'd like to think if I had the same experience (growing up strictly with the Ravens and having never known the Baltimore colts)..that I'd be savvy enough to appreciate what came before and it would matter a GREAT deal! Do you think that todays yankee fans don't appreciate Ruth, Gehrig, DiMaggio & Mantle and 27 rings?

Our football history is a unique situation caused by a drunk ("the devil on earth" proclaimed by his own mother no less) who made off with the logo and colors, don't continue to allow HIM to dictate OUR history and legacy...if you do, as a whole, we as a fan base and all the accomplishments are lesser for it. These remarks like "letting it go" or "get over them leaving" are dumb, pointless remarks because while some may be of the opinion that it would be better if the logo and colors never left..it doesn't matter and hasn't for 12 years. Guys like me who loved them rabidly CAN and DO love the Ravens equally! We just don't want their accomplishments and the Hall Of Famers pushed aside like some younger Ravens fans want, it's silly and counter productive. You can either want the Ravens tied to them or they'll be tied to their previous incarnation in cleveland.

It's really easy to view the Ravens as a continuation of the former team in different colors and logo....than to allow the continued division and deliniation that some younger fans seem to prefer. That's the way Johnny Unitas looked at it as he considered the Baltimore Ravens the rightful heirs to what his teams started and accomplished.
Is that so hard to grasp and understand?? That as a whole we are all better off this way??? The Baltimore colts died in March of '84, what the irsays do/did after that is none of our concern. The establishment of the Baltimore Ravens just breathed new life into what was already begun here, accept and embrace it...doing so doesn't require you to love an old and different logo and colors.

BALTIMORE is the team in the "big picture" and now we call them the Ravens!

Baltimore has 3 Super Bowl wins and 5 World Championships in the "modern era" (since '58)...not just two Super Bowls.

Again, our situation is unique and it wasn't our fault......wear it like a badge of honor, thats why I love having a Unitas Ravens jersey with my others. It's a pretty powerful and proud statement of our situation, outsiders think it's cool and great. Here we are sandwiched between some pretty powerful fan bases from dc, to pitt to philly...what we have carved out in this little niche is quite impressive...and growing!


Ravens Nation!

nice post Marchetti

The BALTIMORE COLTS (1953-1983) 10 playoff appearances and 4 Championships (58,59,68 with the Super Bowl WIN coming in 1970/71

I'm 51 now....and remember Unitas during his later years....Super Bowl V..
Colts 16 Dallas 13

The tip pass from Johnny U to John Mackey....Jim Obriens straight ahead FG with time running out to win it. I will never forget it...
The heartbreaking loss to Willie Joe and the Jets. Weren't the Colts favored by like 3 TDS ?

And Artie Donovan...what a character.
The 75, 76 and 77 teams that won the division titles 3 straight years and got knocked out in the 1st round of the playoffs each time. Bert Jones with that cannon he had.
Stan White and hey diddle diddle Lydell "up the middle" Mitchell. Like Can You Hear Me Now stated in an earlier post. The players had 2nd jobs and pretty much were seen everywhere. My grandmother ran a sub shop uptown and the players would come in all the time. No problem getting autographs back then. They all seemed like regular guys...

I will never forget those players, the colors and the BIG BLUE horseshoe. Good times that I will cherish forever


But WE ARE now the Baltimore Ravens....
I am proud to be a Baltimore Colt and a Baltimore Raven fan forever

[Marchetti]

Quote:
Originally Posted by weird-O

this doesn't seem like a good comparison because it's one team from start to finish and they didn't leave NY. a better example would be to ask if Mets fans tie their histoy to the Giants and Dodgers. do Philly fans tie the A's history to the Phillies, or does St Louis tie the Cardinals history to the Rams. I doubt any of these fan bases do that. as an O's fan, I don't attach the Birds to the StL Browns.

rest assured, no one is forgetting the Baltimore Colts. look at the discussions about putting up statues for the Colt HOFers. they are part of our collective conscious. but the Colts won't mean as much to younger fans, as they do to you and those who saw them play.

I wasn't trying to "compare" because we are unique, it was just an example of appreciating your past, nothing more.
Also, just because the other cities do something doesn't make it a rule!
I would never let Brooklyn, philly, st louis dictate what we do, how we feel about our legacy. Just because they don't do something doesn't mean we have to follow their lead.

[QUOTE}the Colts won't mean as much to younger fans, as they do to you and those who saw them play./QUOTE]
You missed my Point as that was precisely what I was addressing and the example I used was for precisely that, even though they never saw them play it's ok to embrace it. I certainly don't expect them to embrace it as I do but there's no reason to "ignore" it as some want to. I've consistantly been out in front on that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pickle20
Thankfully we've got a great owner, a rabid fanbase and a stadium that should hold up for at least another 30 years. It's not a problem the city should ever face again.

"those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it"
The rabid fan base is nothing new here hence the phrase "The World's Largest Outdoor Insane Asylum", the great owner however is refreshingly new. Any drop in attendance for the old team was directly due to his constantly (over a period of 10 years) sticking his thumb in the collective eyes of a rabid and supportive fan base who didn't give up on the team but were pushed away by the owner and his lack of respect for and his dismantling of a once proud franchise.
Never say never.
Things "could" (probably won't but we know better, they "could"...) change. We most likely should never face it again....BUT, if we did, who here would want Jonathan Ogden and Ray Lewis to be treated as we are treating Lenny Moore and Jim Parker?
No one!

[weird-O]

[QUOTE=Marchetti;8276725]

Quote:
Originally Posted by weird-O

this doesn't seem like a good comparison because it's one team from start to finish and they didn't leave NY. a better example would be to ask if Mets fans tie their histoy to the Giants and Dodgers. do Philly fans tie the A's history to the Phillies, or does St Louis tie the Cardinals history to the Rams. I doubt any of these fan bases do that. as an O's fan, I don't attach the Birds to the StL Browns.

rest assured, no one is forgetting the Baltimore Colts. look at the discussions about putting up statues for the Colt HOFers. they are part of our collective conscious. but the Colts won't mean as much to younger fans, as they do to you and those who saw them play./QUOTE]
I wasn't trying to "compare" because we are unique, it was just an example of appreciating your past, nothing more.
Also, just because the other cities do something doesn't make it a rule!
I would never let Brooklyn, philly, st louis dictate what we do, how we feel about our legacy. Just because they don't do something doesn't mean we have to follow their lead.

[QUOTE}the Colts won't mean as much to younger fans, as they do to you and those who saw them play./QUOTE]
You missed my Point as that was precisely what I was addressing and the example I used was for precisely that, even though they never saw them play it's ok to embrace it. I certainly don't expect them to embrace it as I do but there's no reason to "ignore" it as some want to. I've consistantly been out in front on that.





"those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it"
The rabid fan base is nothing new here hence the phrase "The World's Largest Outdoor Insane Asylum", the great owner however is refreshingly new. Any drop in attendance for the old team was directly due to his constantly (over a period of 10 years) sticking his thumb in the collective eyes of a rabid and supportive fan base who didn't give up on the team but were pushed away by the owner and his lack of respect for and his dismantling of a once proud franchise.
Never say never.
Things "could" (probably won't but we know better, they "could"...) change. We most likely should never face it again....BUT, if we did, who here would want Jonathan Ogden and Ray Lewis to be treated as we are treating Lenny Moore and Jim Parker?
No one!

lots of points made here, but the biggest is that you seems to be running into people who, from your description of the situation, are practically demanding that we push aside the Baltimore Colts and lock away that era.

that's terrible. I'm glad I haven't had anyone express that sentiment around me. I guess I'm hanging out with the right folks

[Marshan Man]

[QUOTE=Marchetti;8276725]

Quote:
Originally Posted by weird-O

this doesn't seem like a good comparison because it's one team from start to finish and they didn't leave NY. a better example would be to ask if Mets fans tie their histoy to the Giants and Dodgers. do Philly fans tie the A's history to the Phillies, or does St Louis tie the Cardinals history to the Rams. I doubt any of these fan bases do that. as an O's fan, I don't attach the Birds to the StL Browns.

rest assured, no one is forgetting the Baltimore Colts. look at the discussions about putting up statues for the Colt HOFers. they are part of our collective conscious. but the Colts won't mean as much to younger fans, as they do to you and those who saw them play./QUOTE]
I wasn't trying to "compare" because we are unique, it was just an example of appreciating your past, nothing more.
Also, just because the other cities do something doesn't make it a rule!
I would never let Brooklyn, philly, st louis dictate what we do, how we feel about our legacy. Just because they don't do something doesn't mean we have to follow their lead.

[QUOTE}the Colts won't mean as much to younger fans, as they do to you and those who saw them play./QUOTE]
You missed my Point as that was precisely what I was addressing and the example I used was for precisely that, even though they never saw them play it's ok to embrace it. I certainly don't expect them to embrace it as I do but there's no reason to "ignore" it as some want to. I've consistantly been out in front on that.





"those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it"
The rabid fan base is nothing new here hence the phrase "The World's Largest Outdoor Insane Asylum", the great owner however is refreshingly new. Any drop in attendance for the old team was directly due to his constantly (over a period of 10 years) sticking his thumb in the collective eyes of a rabid and supportive fan base who didn't give up on the team but were pushed away by the owner and his lack of respect for and his dismantling of a once proud franchise.
Never say never.
Things "could" (probably won't but we know better, they "could"...) change. We most likely should never face it again....BUT, if we did, who here would want Jonathan Ogden and Ray Lewis to be treated as we are treating Lenny Moore and Jim Parker?
No one!

How are we treating Lenny Moore and Jim Parker exactly?? Didn't Lenny Moore get a free trip to the Super Bowl?

[dmac43]

Let's not forget the Stallions - CFL Grey Cup OJ Brigance was on this team !!!
And the Stars - USFL Champs

At 51 I am an old Colts fan, Knew Johnny U, Artie, Curry, Macky, Smith,...

These guys were great, and were regular guys...

Some of the colts in 82 /83 used to play pickup basketball games with us in Cockeysville at the elementary school.. regular guys...

The Ravens are Awesome, I'm a rabid fan.
The point mentioned above is correct, the Colts plyers were always here, they stayed here.

The Ravens players are not that ingrained in the communities yet, but I bet there will come a time when many of these guys will settle here....

Love all of em!!!

[Marchetti]

you seems to be running into people who, from your description of the situation, are practically demanding that we push aside the Baltimore Colts and lock away that era.
I guess I'm hanging out with the right folks

Just listen to the sports talk shows or read posts here, it happens all the time from "the get over it and move on crowd"

How are we treating Lenny Moore and Jim Parker exactly?? Didn't Lenny Moore get a free trip to the Super Bowl?

like thats "good enough"

As much as I love McCrary, Boulware, J Lewis & Stover, none of them are NFL Hall Of Famers. To treat old Baltimore Hall Of Famers less than those four is drastically disproportionate and an embarrassment, thats why they are in football purgatory, it's crazy. How are their names supposed to resonate with the youngsters present and in the future?
Ernest Byner's name in our Ring Of Honor??... but we can't put up the names (numbers aren't good enough) of Baltimore Hall Of Famers in a Baltimore Stadium for Baltimore fans paid for by the citizens of Baltimore?
A bad reflection of prioritizing our greats.

[Marshan Man]

[QUOTE=Marchetti;8276780][QUOTE=weird-O;8276747]

Just listen to the sports talk shows or read posts here, it happens all the time from "the get over it and move on crowd"

like thats "good enough"

As much as I love McCrary, Boulware, J Lewis & Stover, none of them are NFL Hall Of Famers. To treat old Baltimore Hall Of Famers less than those three is drastically disproportionate and an embarrassment, thats why they are in football purgatory, it's crazy. How are their names supposed to resonate with the youngsters present and in the future?
Ernest Byner's name in our Ring Of Honor??... but we can't put up the names (numbers aren't good enough) of Baltimore Hall Of Famers in a Baltimore Stadium for Baltimore fans paid for by the citizens of Baltimore?
A bad reflection of prioritizing our greats.

I still don't get what you're upset about... There are Colts in the Ravens Ring of Honor.. including Lenny Moore and Jim Parker..

As far as get over it and move on... we have the Ravens we don't need no stinkin' Colts. You can't fault people for feeling no particular way about the Colts when we just don't know any better...

http://www.baltimoreravens.com/team/...-of-honor.html

Speaking of Jim Parker,. I remember his liquor store at Liberty and Garrison... It's a Walgreen's parking lot and New York Fried Chicken joint now..

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/199...b-liquor-store

[Marchetti]

I still don't get what you're upset about... There are Colts in the Ravens Ring of Honor.. including Lenny Moore and Jim Parker..

Then you aren't reading my entire post and/or understanding my reasoning.
I clearly stated that Hall Of Famers numbers in the Ring Of Honor aren't good enough and not having Hall Of Famers names there when non-Hall Of Famers are is disproportionate.

As far as get over it and move on... we have the Ravens we don't need no stinkin' Colts. You can't fault people for feeling no particular way about the Colts when we just don't know any better...

I'm not "faulting" anyone, I'm just trying to point out and show that MORE is better than less. We are better off and it would be to our advantage to embrace ALL instead of only what is in front of us. It's not hard to follow or comprehend. Youngsters don't have to go out and buy for instance a "Donovan" or "Berry" Ravens jersey but it would be nice if they learned the unique history and didn't irrationally act insecure and say "get over it and move on" when others invoke or discuss the past, it's silly.
It's ALL good, not "just" the present, and it's better to talk about 3 SB's & 5 World Championships than just 2 Super Bowls.

[weird-O]

it would be nice if they learned the unique history and didn't irrationally act insecure and say "get over it and move on" when others invoke or discuss the past, it's silly.

you would know better than me, since you're a regular on this board, but the only "get over it" comments i've seen, are in discussions where folks are complaing about how Indy should give back the horse shoe.

[cprenegade]

Thankfully we've got a great owner, a rabid fanbase and a stadium that should hold up for at least another 30 years. It's not a problem the city should ever face again.

Never take anything for granted. There was a time that envisioning the name "Colts" with anything other than Baltimore in front of it's name would have been imposssible. Sports landscapes have a habit of changing very quickly. I certainly would not forsee that for the Ravens, who have a solid organization and stable owner, but it only takes a few bad investments in today's world to see any team sold to an owner who just doesn't get it and turns off the better part of a fan base. One needs only to look across the street from M&T Bank stadium to see an example of that. A one time role model franchise for success in baseball has been anything but that during one man's tenure as owner.

[weird-O]

Never take anything for granted. There was a time that envisioning the name "Colts" with anything other than Baltimore in front of it's name would have been imposssible. Sports landscapes have a habit of changing very quickly. I certainly would not forsee that for the Ravens, who have a solid organization and stable owner, but it only takes a few bad investments in today's world to see any team sold to an owner who just doesn't get it and turns off the better part of a fan base. One needs only to look across the street from M&T Bank stadium to see an example of that. A one time role model franchise for success in baseball has been anything but that during one man's tenure as owner.

true, but the O's aren't going anywhere. from '98 - '11, their on the field performance has been embarrassing. but the profits have been kingly. there's a difference between being competitive and being profitable.

[prairieaug]

I think it depends on your age. I'm 52 and grew up across the street from Memorial stadium, some of my fondest memories are associated with the O's and the Colts at that stadium. It's a shame we didn't get to keep the name.

Across the street?! Lucky dog. I'm 53 and have a lot of good memories of "Our Colts". I also wish Baltimore could have kept the name but the Ravens are my team now.

I remember years ago we went to an O's game (from Ferndale) and were driving around near the stadium looking for a parking spot. There were some kids out on the street directing us into a small parking lot. We stopped and he said parking was a certain amout (cheap as I recall compared to the stadium parking). So we paid another kid at the entrance and walk away thinking we had got a good deal. After the game when we got to the lot every car in it had a parking ticket on it. We got scammed....pretty slick kids!

[tsmonk]

The Baltimore Colts legacy will never die, even though there are youngsters on this board who could care less about the history of pro football in Baltimore. The first football game that I remember seeing on TV was Super Bowl III; I was 10. I watched it with my parents and my brother, and I remember their bitter disgust when the Colts lost to the Jets. I also remember the joy in watching the Colts win Super Bowl V. I went to some Colts games in the mid ‘70’s. And, I was angry, speechless, and shocked when Irsay sneaked the team out of town in 1984.

But, I have been a Ravens season ticket holder since they came here, and they have been my team from their beginning.

[Pickle20]

Never take anything for granted. There was a time that envisioning the name "Colts" with anything other than Baltimore in front of it's name would have been imposssible. Sports landscapes have a habit of changing very quickly. I certainly would not forsee that for the Ravens, who have a solid organization and stable owner, but it only takes a few bad investments in today's world to see any team sold to an owner who just doesn't get it and turns off the better part of a fan base. One needs only to look across the street from M&T Bank stadium to see an example of that. A one time role model franchise for success in baseball has been anything but that during one man's tenure as owner.

For sure. I am a PSL owner and intend to be one for my entire life. I'm invested, as are thousands of other fans.

As long as the team can win...occasionally...the fans will be there. As soon as the Orioles started to win, BOOM, OPACY was filling up.

Baltimore is a very loyal city. If you win, we will come, even if the owner is a tyrant.

[codefool]

THIS is what I'll never understand.

I'd like to think if I had the same experience (growing up strictly with the Ravens and having never known the Baltimore colts)..that I'd be savvy enough to appreciate what came before and it would matter a GREAT deal! Do you think that todays yankee fans don't appreciate Ruth, Gehrig, DiMaggio & Mantle and 27 rings?

Our football history is a unique situation caused by a drunk ("the devil on earth" proclaimed by his own mother no less) who made off with the logo and colors, don't continue to allow HIM to dictate OUR history and legacy...if you do, as a whole, we as a fan base and all the accomplishments are lesser for it. These remarks like "letting it go" or "get over them leaving" are dumb, pointless remarks because while some may be of the opinion that it would be better if the logo and colors never left..it doesn't matter and hasn't for 12 years. Guys like me who loved them rabidly CAN and DO love the Ravens equally! We just don't want their accomplishments and the Hall Of Famers pushed aside like some younger Ravens fans want, it's silly and counter productive. You can either want the Ravens tied to them or they'll be tied to their previous incarnation in cleveland.

It's really easy to view the Ravens as a continuation of the former team in different colors and logo....than to allow the continued division and deliniation that some younger fans seem to prefer. That's the way Johnny Unitas looked at it as he considered the Baltimore Ravens the rightful heirs to what his teams started and accomplished.
Is that so hard to grasp and understand?? That as a whole we are all better off this way??? The Baltimore colts died in March of '84, what the irsays do/did after that is none of our concern. The establishment of the Baltimore Ravens just breathed new life into what was already begun here, accept and embrace it...doing so doesn't require you to love an old and different logo and colors.

BALTIMORE is the team in the "big picture" and now we call them the Ravens!

Baltimore has 3 Super Bowl wins and 5 World Championships in the "modern era" (since '58)...not just two Super Bowls.

Again, our situation is unique and it wasn't our fault......wear it like a badge of honor, thats why I love having a Unitas Ravens jersey with my others. It's a pretty powerful and proud statement of our situation, outsiders think it's cool and great. Here we are sandwiched between some pretty powerful fan bases from dc, to pitt to philly...what we have carved out in this little niche is quite impressive...and growing!


Ravens Nation!

Then where do the Star and Stallions fall in too? I'm too young to remember the Stars but was a tennager and I still have a great fondness for the Baltimore CFL/Stallions and was dissapointed when we werent able to keep the team and kind of upset that they were pushed aside like a redheaded step child as soon as the Browns announched thier plans to move.

[Marchetti]

They don't. It's pretty obvious that this is an NFL thing.

I too am very fond of the brief time in the CFL, our players and what they accomplished. It's not the NFL, the best of the best.

[tsmonk]

Then where do the Star and Stallions fall in too? I'm too young to remember the Stars but was a tennager and I still have a great fondness for the Baltimore CFL/Stallions and was dissapointed when we werent able to keep the team and kind of upset that they were pushed aside like a redheaded step child as soon as the Browns announched thier plans to move.

I went to a few Stallions games, because a vendor I dealt with gave me some free tickets. But, I never really got into CFL football. It was just something to watch.

[Ed Rooney]

They have. More playoff seasons and more SB wins.

Indy can have the Colts. just don't go around talking up Johnny U like he played there, or even visited.

[boink]

I don't think the Ravens are there yet.

Remember, the 1958 Colts/Giants Championship game was influential in several ways.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1958_NFL_Championship_Game

I remember the Colts mainly during the Ted ("with me it's always third and eight") Marchibroda years.

During one Monday night football game on ABC we were playing the Bills at home before a national audience, and a bunch of fans unfurled a banner that read "Cosell sucks the juice"

That may have been the same night a mob surrounded Howard Cosell's car as he was leaving Memorial Stadium and started rocking it back and forth.