Member
Thats pretty much it. Nice summation, I agree.Originally Posted by soulflower
I don't blame ya
I've always been more receptive to the arguments of Libertarians than modern day Conservatives.
Libertarians are basically Classical Liberals
In contrast, Modern Liberals are more open to the ideas of using the power of government to impose social justice and equality.
Most Libertarians aren't against equality but they don't support using the power of the government to create equal opportunities.
Member
Well, with history, your best best is to cite primary sources, not someone else's interpretation of primary sources.
In poli-sci and history, regular news outlets can be a perfectly fine source, as it shows how certain events were portrayed and interpreted at the time they happened.
Member
It's not a myth, as I personally experienced it, and now I'm watching my kid experience it.Actually the idea that people become less liberal as they get older is a myth. Better get used to it...
Heres the reality...young people at around their later teen years have great functioning minds. They are chock full of opinions based on this awareness, and their current ability to access countless sources of information.
The problem with that? None really, thats how it should be..but so far, they have been hand held, butt wiped and cared for by the adults in their lives. They think they're independent, but really, they are very dependent.
Most young people do not make their own way. For their entire lives, housing, clothing, education etc..has been supplied for them. They have been handed just about everything they have. This obviously has an effect on the mindset. How could it not? It fosters a world view thats a bit messed up, but it's a natural progression.
My kids worked very hard to maintain her honor student ranking, but she's done zero as far as creating the environment she's grown up in, as thats been supplied by folks (me and mom) that actually go to work every day and foot the bill. Thats fine, as it's every parents role to help them along, in order to become productive citizens.
As she makes that transition from complete dependent to self sustaining individual, real life realities will come into play.
I think one of the big things is the realization that the government does not create money, and that it's completely funded by the productive.
I realize you'll disagree, but instead of liberal and conservative, we see it as takers and makers. You're either one or the other. Dependent as a child, then productive and making you're own way as an adult. (this comes with the understanding that any legit society has a safety net for those that can't help themselves)
IMO, liberalism is the most destructive way of thinking, when it relates to society. Individually, not a problem. But transferred to larger groups, it's value is only in creating a dependent class, who look to government (standing in for the parents of young children) to supply their needs, as a parent does for a child.
Smart parents work to break those sort of bonds, while government seeks to maintain them.
Member
You make this sound so complicated when it's really not. The fact is, younger people get more conservative as they get older because they become more resistant to change. They are used to the world they grew up in. That's just the way it is. I'm an aberration, I've gotten more liberal with age.
Member
Research shows that people become more Liberal as they get older.
Most people assume that the people become more conservative as they age but everything I've read on the topic has concluded otherwise...
Member
Really? Because older people voted for Romney in this cycle and younger people went for Obama, and I'm pretty sure that's the norm, based on past elections.
Member
Q: How did dumbya get into office? A: Those who voted for him were even dumber!
How exactly did George W. Bush get into Yale with a 1206 SAT score?
Upper left corner: Bush's Yale Transcript
http://www.iuptown.com/YaleProtest/b...transcript.htm
Member
A SAT score of 1206 puts him a standard deviation above the median for the year he took it. That puts him in the the slightly better than top 15% range. The guy may have been silly and may have made questionable decisions (who doesn't?) but he's no dummy. It certainly wouldn't be good enough to get into Yale. I'm thinking he might have had some connections but I can't quite put my finger on it.
I got a whole 1090 (ever slightly above the median score) on the SAT and I ended up getting a masters degree in electrical engineering. Granted I didn't take it seriously, and when I took the ACT I got a 29 which would have put me in the top 10% of when I took it.
Member
and after 40 years of dumbing down the test so the averages have risen each decade, the average at this school barely broke 900 ......
what's your point? .....
Member
Year - Mean Verbal Score/Mean Math Score
1972 - 530/509
1982 - 504/493
1992 - 500/501
2002 - 504/516
2012 - 496/514
I don't see the average rise each decade over the last 40 years.
Member
Last year's 496 verbal score was the lowest since the College Board has produced compiled score data (1972):
The College Board and others have claimed that they believe the drop is due to a massive increase in kids taking the test who are heavily on the lower end of the score scale. The hard thing about the average number is it doesn't give us very good information in terms of where the scores are pulling the average down. Perhaps the College Board analyzed this with their raw numbers properly so it could be a valid statement. I'd certainly like to know what would pull the average down from the median that far with this big of a sample. There could be a lot of them clumped near the first standard deviation below median.Average reading and writing SAT scores for high school students declined to their lowest levels while math results stalled in the exam used for admission at most U.S. colleges.
For the class of 2012, the average critical reading score fell 1 point to 496 from a year earlier, the lowest since data became available in 1972, according to a report released today by the New York-based College Board, which administers the test. The average score for writing dropped 1 point to 488, the lowest since writing was added to the exam in 2006. Math results were unchanged at 514. Scores can range from 200 to 800.
Member
you are right, I probably wasn't clear .......
a lot more kids take it now (and a lot of kids go to college now that weren't "college material" 20 or 30 years ago) .......
within peer groupings, the scores are higher these days .......
the scores at the the top schools are crazy .......
> 40% of the kids in one of my kid's programs got 800 in their math SATs ....
schools like MIT hit 800 on their 25-75% spreads ....
http://mitadmissions.org/apply/process/stats
Member
I'm in my early 30s. I work 6 days a week, live in the suburbs, have a mortgage, and a child but I'm still as Liberal as ever. I can't imagine myself becoming more socially conservative as I get older.
Society doesn't regress. Things like gay marriage, abortion, women in combat, legal marijuana, etc are here to stay.
You've been watching too much Fox News.
As I explained to Smokey, modern liberals generally want to use the power of the government to impose social justice and equality. It's a well intentioned goal but Libs have to be careful not to let their good intentions be the enemy of individual freedom.
Member
true and to make sure you cite fact......not opinion. citing foxes report of a zoogby poll or NBC's report of a QUinapiac poll is not proper use of a reference. You should just cite the original poll!
Member
And this kind of response is why many folks don't take you seriously. It's hard to get past the nastiness to actually think about what your point is.
Talk about crap, this is the perfect example.
Member
1090 is a fantastic score (I got the same). I took the test a second time and did worse. My sister was a straight A student and did bad on the SAT. Because of her terrible score, she couldn't get into Towson. She went on to graduate Magna Cum Laude from a different college. Good job SAT!
Member
Doesn't appear to be a HBCU
http://westliberty.edu/
Member
Well, more Jon Stewart than Comedy Central. Ever watch him?
Member
When Bush took the SAT, there was no writing component, so a perfect score was 1600.
Member
Liberal or conservative - I think it depends on the issue.
Had dinner with some folks that are in the same situation as my wife and I, ie, approaching retirement age...so where to retire to, how much is enough to live on, health care costs, etc.....and we all were thinking along the same lines when it came to taxes. When a person has to live out the remainder of their life on a fixed income, every new tax increase becomes a big deal.
So, while I may be a "liberal" on some issues, I am very conservative when it comes to spending and tax issues.
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