New speed cameras won't eliminate errors, radar experts say

[Daan]

New speed cameras won't eliminate errors, radar experts say


Baltimore City's speed camera "money grab" to continue.

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/201...rogram-cameras
Quote

While city officials believe tracking radar will produce more accurate results, experts say a rigorous human review process and frequent calibration of the cameras will remain essential if the city wants to move toward Mayor Stephanie Rawlings-Blake's goal of achieving "a zero-error program."

"In the laboratory, in the hands of a skilled scientist, these things could be tested and proved reliable," said Christopher Davis, an electrical and computer engineering professor at the University of Maryland. "But put out on the street and left there for months at a time, I wouldn't have confidence they'd give reliable readings 100 percent of the time."

City officials have emphasized that, while they trust the new cameras, they will also beef up the process of reviewing and verifying the automated cameras' citations before they are mailed to motorists for payment of the $40 fine. A key change will be at the Police Department, where officers had been checking up to six tickets per minute. The department says it will double the number of officers available to review citations and have supervisors spot-check their work.

The contractor's and the City's "experts" claim the problems that had created bogus citations in the past will be solved.

But technical experts such as "Christopher Davis, an electrical and computer engineering professor at the University of Maryland" and "Jin Kang, chairman of the Electrical and Computer Engineering Department at the Johns Hopkins University" don't agree.

The speed camera system is a dishonest money grab promoted as being for the safety of school children.

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[The Eternal White Belt]

New speed cameras won't eliminate errors, radar experts say


Baltimore City's speed camera "money grab" to continue.

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/201...rogram-cameras
Quote

While city officials believe tracking radar will produce more accurate results, experts say a rigorous human review process and frequent calibration of the cameras will remain essential if the city wants to move toward Mayor Stephanie Rawlings-Blake's goal of achieving "a zero-error program."

"In the laboratory, in the hands of a skilled scientist, these things could be tested and proved reliable," said Christopher Davis, an electrical and computer engineering professor at the University of Maryland. "But put out on the street and left there for months at a time, I wouldn't have confidence they'd give reliable readings 100 percent of the time."

City officials have emphasized that, while they trust the new cameras, they will also beef up the process of reviewing and verifying the automated cameras' citations before they are mailed to motorists for payment of the $40 fine. A key change will be at the Police Department, where officers had been checking up to six tickets per minute. The department says it will double the number of officers available to review citations and have supervisors spot-check their work.

The contractor's and the City's "experts" claim the problems that had created bogus citations in the past will be solved.

But technical experts such as "Christopher Davis, an electrical and computer engineering professor at the University of Maryland" and "Jin Kang, chairman of the Electrical and Computer Engineering Department at the Johns Hopkins University" don't agree.

The speed camera system is a dishonest money grab promoted as being for the safety of school children.

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They shouldn't be getting opinions from computer or electrical engineering experts. They should be getting opinions from remote sensing specialists.

Uniformed police officers don't have a zero error program either.

[Daan]

They shouldn't be getting opinions from computer or electrical engineering experts. They should be getting opinions from remote sensing specialists.

Uniformed police officers don't have a zero error program either.

They did. The contractor gave his opinion.

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[Daan]

They shouldn't be getting opinions from computer or electrical engineering experts. They should be getting opinions from remote sensing specialists.

Uniformed police officers don't have a zero error program either.

Do uniformed police officers issue speed citations to stationary vehicles?

Do uniformed police officers issue speed citations citing incorrectly the posted speed limit?

Do uniformed police officers sign citations AFTER they are deceased?

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[Marshan Man]

When do the cameras go back into effect?

[Daan]

When do the cameras go back into effect?

http://www.dailypress.com/topic/bs-m...,2007385.story

Quote

A top city official said Monday that 10 of Baltimore's 83 speed cameras are now [2/4/2013] operational — a month after the entire network was shut down during a troubled transition to a new vendor.

Khalil Zaied, deputy chief of operations for Mayor Stephanie Rawlings-Blake, also told City Council members during a lunch that about 15 of the city's red light cameras are now working.

On Jan. 1, Baltimore's speed and red light camera system experienced a complete shutdown during what city officials called a problematic transition to a new contractor. The city's new vendor, Brekford Corp., has said it could take as long as four months to get its system running. Zaied told council members Monday that the upgrade is ahead of schedule.

End Quote

[Marshan Man]

Sneaky...

And why is a Hampton Roads area paper publishing this??

[Daan]

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City to pay new speed camera vendor $11.20 per $40 ticket


http://articles.baltimoresun.com/201...state-brekford
Quote

O'Malley, key lawmakers say 'bounty system' is illegal
January 10, 2013|By Scott Calvert, The Baltimore Sun
Baltimore plans to pay its new speed camera contractor $11.20 per $40 citation — continuing its use of a so-called bounty system that Gov. Martin O'Malley and key state legislators say is illegal under Maryland law.

"Talking to our attorneys here, we're within state law," said Adrienne Barnes, a spokeswoman for the city Department of Transportation. She said no contract has yet been signed with the new vendor, Brekford Corp. of Hanover.

End Quote


Baltimore City is saying that Governor O'Malley doesn't know what he is talking about.


How is a per ticket "bounty" for the contractor not a conflict of interest when the contractor is the one who manages the speed cameras.


In this session in Annapolis it is likely that the legislators will make the law more specific.

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[The Eternal White Belt]

Do uniformed police officers issue speed citations to stationary vehicles?

Probably not. I certainly hope not. Seems easy to correct though.

Do uniformed police officers issue speed citations citing incorrectly the posted speed limit?

Probably. Actually, I remember this happening to my mom when I was a teenager.

Do uniformed police officers sign citations AFTER they are deceased?

Don't uniformed officers sign the tickets taken by speed cameras?

All of the issues you discuss are easily fixed with good QAQC measures.

[Daan]

Probably not. I certainly hope not. Seems easy to correct though.

Probably. Actually, I remember this happening to my mom when I was a teenager.



Don't uniformed officers sign the tickets taken by speed cameras?

All of the issues you discuss are easily fixed with good QAQC measures.

Give it a rest.

You want to compare infrequent and minor mistakes that a uniformed police office may make unintentionally to the incompetent, non-compliant, multiple and egregious "mistakes" that Baltimore City made continuously with their money grab labeled as the "school zone speed camera" law enacted to protect school children. Go ahead, that's your privilege.

The camera generated citations are, by law, required to be reviewed by a Baltimore City police officer for accuracy before they are sent out. It was reported that 2,000 Baltimore City red light camera citations were certified with the forged signature of a deceased Baltimore City police officer. Looks like a "rubber stamp" operation. Baltimore City's cameras are dual use. They do both speed enforcement and red light enforcement.

It was reported that Baltimore City was aware that a speed camera was recording vehicles at speeds that were proven to be incorrect but the City did nothing to correct the camera. It seems the Sunpaper series on the subject was the reason anything was done.

The system, as implemented by Baltimore City is a money grabbing scam. The Governor and some legislators are on record stating that the "bounty" system for paying the contractor per ticket violates the state law.

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[The Eternal White Belt]

Give it a rest.

You want to compare infrequent and minor mistakes that a uniformed police office may make unintentionally to the incompetent, non-compliant, multiple and egregious "mistakes" that Baltimore City made continuously with their money grab labeled as the "school zone speed camera" law enacted to protect school children. Go ahead, that's your privilege.

The camera generated citations are, by law, required to be reviewed by a Baltimore City police officer for accuracy before they are sent out. It was reported that 2,000 Baltimore City red light camera citations were certified with the forged signature of a deceased Baltimore City police officer. Looks like a "rubber stamp" operation. Baltimore City's cameras are dual use. They do both speed enforcement and red light enforcement.

It was reported that Baltimore City was aware that a speed camera was recording vehicles at speeds that were proven to be incorrect but the City did nothing to correct the camera. It seems the Sunpaper series on the subject was the reason anything was done.

The system, as implemented by Baltimore City is a money grabbing scam. The Governor and some legislators are on record stating that the "bounty" system for paying the contractor per ticket violates the state law.

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Exactly... a quality control issue, not a technology issue.

[Wizard777]

I'm starting to wonder if the real problem is that in a rush for revenue they are trying to make technology do something it is not yet actually capable of doing.

[Wizard777]

Local governments, police resist speed camera changes

Local governments and police on Wednesday attacked a sweeping proposal to change Maryland's speed camera law.

During the first hearing on whether to revamp a law that has been lucrative for local governments but also has sparked concerns about fairness, speed camera proponents defended what has been called a "bounty system" of paying contractors based on the number of tickets issued to drivers.

Program supporters also rejected as unfeasible a proposal to require precise time-stamped photos and painted lines on roadways that would more easily allow motorists to challenge the $40 tickets in court.

[Wizard777]

Program supporters also rejected as unfeasible a proposal to require precise time-stamped photos and painted lines on roadways that would more easily allow motorists to challenge the $40 tickets in court.

"Our roads would look like zebras," Prince George's County Police Maj. Robert Liberati told a Senate committee in Annapolis, which also heard arguments that the cameras improve public safety.

We paint vertical lines all over our roads. We paint vertical lines down the sides of roads to demarcate shoulders. We paint vertical solid and broken lines across the road to demarcate lanes. But if you paint some horizontal lines on the road to keep a county from essentially stealing 40.00 from a motorist. Well NOW you've just gone too far mister! If the Legislature is going to buy that Zebra bit. We also have to get rid of the broken lines too. Because they make the road look perforated and you wouldn't want someone trying to rip a lane off 695 like it was a coupon. Uh huh.......

Montgomery County Police Capt. Tom Didone oversees that jurisdiction's speed camera program, the state's oldest. He said proposals to overhaul the law would be "ineffective, impractical, unnecessarily expensive and do not address the primary concern for these programs."

I really wish someone would explain to me how allowing people to go speeding past schools for a fee of 40.00 and no points protects children in those schools. I understand how having police officers pulling over motorists, physically stopping that speeding vehicle, and causing people to sit on the side of the road thinking about what they are doing protects children in schools. The program is GREAT! The county makes 40.00 the motorist doesn't get any points. There's no concerns of getting your license supended or losing it. You also don't have to worry about higher insurance rates.......until you hit a kid. It's become blatantly obvious the "primary concern for these programs" is making lots of easy money. Not protecting children because there is no one physically stopping the cars. If you speed past the schools repeatedly there are no points to take you off the road. But the county does get to make 40.00 off a picture of the speeing car that hit the kid. THAT'S what is really important here.

I now favor a repeal. But at the very least the law should go to a referendum vote. If the law passes it's the law of the land. If it's defeated speed cameras become illegal to operate in the state. Let the voters decide if this program actually protects children or if it just allows greedy politicians to make a quick easy 40.00.

[The Eternal White Belt]

I've gotten camera tickets several times. I definitely slow down on roads where I know cameras exist.

[Daan]

I've gotten camera tickets several times. I definitely slow down on roads where I know cameras exist.

Baltimore City modified their red light cameras to serve also as school zone speed cameras.

Baltimore City evidently does not know that the 1/2 mile radius in the law is a "school area" and that a "school zone" can be established within that "school area" where it will actually be for the safety of school children. The law did not intend that the entire "school area" is automatically a "school zone".

Also, Baltimore City has lowered the posted speed limit on some sections of road where a speed camera is located. Then, for example, a 30 mph posted limit suddenly becomes 25 mph and they get more citations.

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[The Eternal White Belt]

If those cameras allow for an 11 mph buffer, then what is the effective speed limit on those roads?

[Daan]

If those cameras allow for an 11 mph buffer, then what is the effective speed limit on those roads?

Are you familiar with Orleans Street (US Route 40) in Baltimore City. It's a 4 lane highway that is a busy commuter route for people who work in the city like Johns Hopkins employees who live east of the city.

There is an elementary school for which the city has designated a "school zone" and lowered the speed limit from 30mph to 25 mph. From 6AM to 8PM the speed camera enforces the 25 mph limit. There is a crossing guard at the red light intersection in front of the school every day for the safety of the school children.

The City has designated a school zone for that school but the speed camera is located 800 feet beyond the school (at Linwood) for eastbound traffic only. I agree that in front of the school the speed limit of 25 mph to 36 mph is reasonable. But for the speed camera to be 800 feet beyond the school at a red light intersection simply makes the claim "that its for the childrens' safety at that school" a lie.

A vehicle could be going 50 mph or more in front of the school and easily slow to less than 37 mph in 800 feet.

So a driver that goes 37 mph during their commute from work (it's only enforced for eastbound traffic) gets a $40 citation.

An individual (not me) that I know was cited for 37mph at that location on their way home from work at 5:30PM and they were just moving with the traffic because the citation photo shows four cars.


faq
http://www.marylandroads.com/OOTS/SZ-ASE%20Brochure.pdf

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[The Eternal White Belt]

Sorry, I'm failing to see the issue.

Here is my take on the matter. I speed. A lot. I like to drive at over 80mph on the highway. I like to find the curviest back roads I can and drive them like a bat out of hell (well, within my car's limits).

The only time I drive below the speed limit is when I'm in a school zone or in a residential neighborhood - and I don't need speed cameras to make me do that. Granted, speed cameras do make me more aware and more likely to slow down in the locations where I know they exist.

I'll take the occasional $40 and zero points. I find that it's a fair trade-off when compared to $100+ speeding tickets + points, +the 20 minutes it seems to take for a cop to run tags & write a ticket, etc.

Officers setting up speed traps, etc. do nothing to slow down traffic, and really only catch a tiny amount of speeders in a given area. Tiny. Also, speed traps are generally set up in areas where the cop can hide the best and meet his/her quota, not where accidents most occur. I like that speed cameras are generally set up in school zones and construction zones.

Again, it seems like Baltimore City has an issue with how THEY have implemented their speed cameras. Fix the process - it's not the technology that's broken.

[Ravens2006]

If they can't produce time-stamped photos (two of them; calibrated to single millisecond precision) that show the vehicle's position at two distinct moments in time... then there's NO RELIABLE WAY to audit the reading. NONE.

And no, you don't need to "paint lines" on the actual roadway. Part of the calibration process for the CAMERA would include measuring distances of objects / landmarks currently in the field-of-view (these are stationary, fixed field-of-view cameras) and putting an overlay on the resulting camera image. It can be done the same day the camera is installed, and it might take all of 20 minutes for a SHA-type worker to do. Then an auditor / reviewer can easily get the distance traveled, and the time between images, with some 1st grade math and a few seconds of their time.

Next time you pass a "speed reader" sign on the road and you see the reading vary wildly from one moment to the next, know that this is a result of the radar signal bouncing off different objects. I was slowing down approaching a red light a few weeks back, going about 5 to 10 MPH as I approached. The reading kept flipping back and forth between my speed and that of another car farther behind me (going about 20 to 25 MPH). This produces errant readings ALL THE TIME. Not just from unmanned "reminder" gizmos, but from hand-held radar guns and speed cameras as well.