Students Who Refuse to Affirm Transgender Classmates Face Punishment

[Smokey 1]

Again, you seem to be ignoring my point. To deliberately make someone feel like crap is bullying. This is common sense which you and flyboy seem completely baffled by.

And what you seem to ignore is that we have a right of association which includes the right to not associate for any reason at all. If that makes someone feel like crap, too bad. Individual freedom is much more important than someone's hurt feelings.

[Bmoreteacher]

And what you seem to ignore is that we have a right of association which includes the right to not associate for any reason at all. If that makes someone feel like crap, too bad. Individual freedom is much more important than someone's hurt feelings.

You're not even reading what I'm saying. To INTENTIONALLY do things to make someone feel like crap, that is bullying. Like I said, you seem baffled by this simple statement.

[Rael]

You're not even reading what I'm saying. To INTENTIONALLY do things to make someone feel like crap, that is bullying. Like I said, you seem baffled by this simple statement.

I believe what Smokey is saying that you seem to not be getting is that the right to associate with someone or not INTENTIONALLY is not mitigated by the reason why we wish to associate or not associate.

If I am ignoring you, can you tell me for sure whether I am doing it because you are a homosexual, because you are a teacher, because you have brown eyes, or maybe because I don't like your personality? If not, how can you accuse someone of bullying by not associating?

[Marshan Man]

I wish I had the right of association at work...

[Smokey 1]

You're not even reading what I'm saying. To INTENTIONALLY do things to make someone feel like crap, that is bullying. Like I said, you seem baffled by this simple statement.

No, even if they intentionally ignore them knowing that it will make them feel like crap they have the right to do it. I am not saying it is a moral or right thing to do but as individuals they have the right to do it. It isn't like they are doing something to them which is a different thing altogether. But to ignore somebody is not doing something to them. What you are saying is that a person should be forced to associate with someone so they won't feel like crap.

[Bmoreteacher]

I believe what Smokey is saying that you seem to not be getting is that the right to associate with someone or not INTENTIONALLY is not mitigated by the reason why we wish to associate or not associate.

If I am ignoring you, can you tell me for sure whether I am doing it because you are a homosexual, because you are a teacher, because you have brown eyes, or maybe because I don't like your personality? If not, how can you accuse someone of bullying by not associating?

Very simple concept. Ignoring someone isn't bullying. Doing it to intentionally be mean, which is obvious to any adult with a brain, is bullying.

[Bmoreteacher]

No, even if they intentionally ignore them knowing that it will make them feel like crap they have the right to do it. I am not saying it is a moral or right thing to do but as individuals they have the right to do it. It isn't like they are doing something to them which is a different thing altogether. But to ignore somebody is not doing something to them. What you are saying is that a person should be forced to associate with someone so they won't feel like crap.

If you ignore someone because you want them to feel bad, it is not ok. THAT us what I am saying. Stop putting your misconstrued words in my mouth and telling me what I am saying.

[Smokey 1]

If you ignore someone because you want them to feel bad, it is not ok.

It may not be "ok" in a moral sense but it is within an individuals rights to do so without being punished or forced to associate with someone.

THAT us what I am saying. Stop putting your misconstrued words in my mouth and telling me what I am saying.

So you agree that there should be no punishment or forced association for someone who purposely ignores another person even if they know that it will cause that person to "feel like crap"?

[Smokey 1]

Very simple concept. Ignoring someone isn't bullying. Doing it to intentionally be mean, which is obvious to any adult with a brain, is bullying.

And "bullying" can be punished. I don't need to put words in your mouth, you are doing a good job of it yourself. And you assume that "any adult with a brain" knows why one person ignores another.

[Rael]

Very simple concept. Ignoring someone isn't bullying. Doing it to intentionally be mean, which is obvious to any adult with a brain, is bullying.

How does one determine the intention of a lack of action?

[Bmoreteacher]

How does one determine the intention of a lack of action?

Like I said, you use your adult brain. Ask any teacher and they'd tell you how easy it is to figure out whether kids are bullying or whether there is some other issue going on. Its really not at difficult as you guys seem to be pretending.

[Bmoreteacher]

It may not be "ok" in a moral sense but it is within an individuals rights to do so without being punished or forced to associate with someone.



So you agree that there should be no punishment or forced association for someone who purposely ignores another person even if they know that it will cause that person to "feel like crap"?

Smokey, you are coming at this from the perspective of "You have the right to ignore someone, even if it makes them feel bad" which I am not fighting you on. My point, which you keep missing, is that if you are ignoring someone for the sole purpose of making them feel bad, that is bullying, and no, you do not have the right to bully someone in school. Do you see the difference?

[sigmalady]

I don't think ignoring someone, whatever the intention, is bullying.

[Bmoreteacher]

And "bullying" can be punished. I don't need to put words in your mouth, you are doing a good job of it yourself. And you assume that "any adult with a brain" knows why one person ignores another.

You are putting words in my mouth, because what you are saying is not what I am. Yes, adults can pretty easily tell if someone is bullying or not. As you seem to be baffled by the concepts I keep bringing up, then perhaps you are unable to.

[Bmoreteacher]

I don't think ignoring someone, whatever the intention, is bullying.

If the intention is to hurt their feelings it is.

[Smokey 1]

If the intention is to hurt their feelings it is.

So you tell me so I won't be "putting words in your mouth" if you were a teacher in that district and some kids intentionally ignored a transgender and you believe they did it to "make the student feel like crap" would you punish them, or force them to associate with the transgender?

And how would you feel if a teacher had to force other students to associate with you? Would that make everything OK?

[Bmoreteacher]

So you tell me so I won't be "putting words in your mouth" if you were a teacher in that district and some kids intentionally ignored a transgender and you believe they did it to "make the student feel like crap" would you punish them, or force them to associate with the transgender?

And how would you feel if a teacher had to force other students to associate with you? Would that make everything OK?

Could you clarify your first sentence? It isn't very readable.

If there was bullying going on, I would obviously address it, that's part of my job as a teacher. I'm not interested in delving into the land of make believe with you, so let's skip the hypotheticals, shall we?

[veritas]

If the intention is to hurt their feelings it is.

How on Earth are you going to figure that out? And what is your remedy? For them to be forced to start paying attention to the person? Absurd.

[Bmoreteacher]

How on Earth are you going to figure that out? And what is your remedy? For them to be forced to start paying attention to the person? Absurd.

I've already said that its quite easy to see when a kid is bullying another one by excluding them. I don't know how I'd remedy the situation, but it is certainly my job to address bullying, is it not? I think the only reason you guys are so up in arms about this obvious fact (that teachers must address bullying) is that this has to do with transgender youth.

[veritas]

I've already said that its quite easy to see when a kid is bullying another one by excluding them. I don't know how I'd remedy the situation, but it is certainly my job to address bullying, is it not? I think the only reason you guys are so up in arms about this obvious fact (that teachers must address bullying) is that this has to do with transgender youth.

No, it has to do with the nonsense that people should be immune from emotional upset. Sorry but that's just the way life is. Kids have always broken up into cliques whether it's jocks, nerds, whatever. All the liberal PC do-gooderism does is foster rightful contempt. I mean, it's pretty laughable when we can't even have gym class because the fat kid might get picked last when choosing up teams. Pathetic.