Students Who Refuse to Affirm Transgender Classmates Face Punishment

[Bmoreteacher]

No, it has to do with the nonsense that people should be immune from emotional upset. Sorry but that's just the way life is. Kids have always broken up into cliques whether it's jocks, nerds, whatever. All the liberal PC do-gooderism does is foster rightful contempt. I mean, it's pretty laughable when we can't even have gym class because the fat kid might get picked last when choosing up teams. Pathetic.

Uh, no one is saying that kids will be immune from emotional upset. What a stupid lie (I thought Christians weren't supposed to do that.) We still have gym, by the way. Perhaps you could try sticking to the facts rather than making things up about liberals? Thanks!

[veritas]

Uh, no one is saying that kids will be immune from emotional upset. What a stupid lie (I thought Christians weren't supposed to do that.) We still have gym, by the way. Perhaps you could try sticking to the facts rather than making things up about liberals? Thanks!

Who has to make up anything? There's nothing secret about the nonsense liberals have pushed in schools for decades. If you weren't concerned about emotional upset, why did you make your "bullying" comment? Bullying is pretty easily identified but you guys go way beyond that. First we had hate speech. What's next? Hate by indifference? Too funny and, as I said, pathetic.

[Bmoreteacher]

Who has to make up anything? There's nothing secret about the nonsense liberals have pushed in schools for decades. If you weren't concerned about emotional upset, why did you make your "bullying" comment? Bullying is pretty easily identified but you guys go way beyond that. First we had hate speech. What's next? Hate by indifference? Too funny and, as I said, pathetic.

Oh yes, only liberal teachers take a stand against kids trying to make the lives of others hell.

[veritas]

Oh yes, only liberal teachers take a stand against kids trying to make the lives of others hell.

And I said that where exactly? Or are you simply spouting nonsense? Bullying is readily identifiable. The thing you've described as bullying in this thread is not it.

[Bmoreteacher]

And I said that where exactly? Or are you simply spouting nonsense? Bullying is readily identifiable. The thing you've described as bullying in this thread is not it.

Making someone's life hell by ostracizing them isn't bullying? Apparently you've never worked with teen girls. That's their preferred method of bullying.

[Mom49of4]

You cannot force students to be friends with one another.

[Bmoreteacher]

You cannot force students to be friends with one another.

That's not at all what I am suggesting.

[veritas]

That's not at all what I am suggesting.

What precisely are you suggesting? You can talk till you're blue in the face but kids aren't going to include somebody if they don't want to.

[Mom49of4]

I was not sure. But certainly it is the job of educators or whoever works with children to teach tolerance.

At the same time I must admit I had the best parents. There were ahead of their time.

[Rael]

Like I said, you use your adult brain. Ask any teacher and they'd tell you how easy it is to figure out whether kids are bullying or whether there is some other issue going on. Its really not at difficult as you guys seem to be pretending.

You are turning this into the slippery slope of thought crime. After all, I ignored you for a couple of hours now. Tell me, did I do it because I find you difficult to deal with or did I do it because I was otherwise occupied?

[Bmoreteacher]

What precisely are you suggesting? You can talk till you're blue in the face but kids aren't going to include somebody if they don't want to.

Again, not at all what I have said. I think I've made it clear that as a teacher, I cannot let kids take steps to viciously ostracize other students as a form of bullying. My jaw is on the floor that I'm getting so much push back about this simple concept.

[Bmoreteacher]

You are turning this into the slippery slope of thought crime. After all, I ignored you for a couple of hours now. Tell me, did I do it because I find you difficult to deal with or did I do it because I was otherwise occupied?

I could not possibly make this any clearer. Taking steps to ostracize another student because you think they are weird and you want to make their life miserable is bullying. Did you do that to me? Of course not. If you had actually read what I have been writing, you'd know I'm not saying that merely ignoring someone is bullying.

[Smokey 1]

If there was bullying going on, I would obviously address it, that's part of my job as a teacher. I'm not interested in delving into the land of make believe with you, so let's skip the hypotheticals, shall we?

No, I like hypotheticals. They make things a lot clearer. Apparently you need things spelled out for you.

So what would you do if you thought some kids were ignoring a student to be mean? Would you punish them? Would you force them to associate with the student? How would you address it?

[Bmoreteacher]

I was not sure. But certainly it is the job of educators or whoever works with children to teach tolerance.

At the same time I must admit I had the best parents. There were ahead of their time.

I'd imagine that as an educator you'd know what I am talking about. To give a specific example, I have a girl who is a rather weird 5th grader. Other girls in the class refuse to include her in any activities, but plainly talk about their plans in front of her to make her feel badly that she was not included. There is plenty of cruel talking behind her back that goes on too, but all of her teachers know quite clearly when the other girls are torturing her by playing the ignoring game, as I she can say something and nobody hears her.

[Bmoreteacher]

No, I like hypotheticals. They make things a lot clearer. Apparently you need things spelled out for you.

So what would you do if you thought some kids were ignoring a student to be mean? Would you punish them? Would you force them to associate with the student? How would you address it?

Hypotheticals don't make things clearer, they allow you to fantasize about absurd situations. When children are bullying I try to find out why, because it is often that they have insecurity issues that need addressing of their own. If a child is being cruel and they have been warned yet choose to continue, I will keep them for detention and call their parents in for a conference. You can't force kids to socialize, but you can make it clear that deliberate bullying will have consequences.

[Smokey 1]

Hypotheticals don't make things clearer, they allow you to fantasize about absurd situations. When children are bullying I try to find out why, because it is often that they have insecurity issues that need addressing of their own. If a child is being cruel and they have been warned yet choose to continue, I will keep them for detention and call their parents in for a conference. You can't force kids to socialize, but you can make it clear that deliberate bullying will have consequences.

You think ostracizing the other kid is bullying yet you recognize that you can't force kids to socialize. Suppose the kid keeps ignoring the other kid? What consequences? Put him back in detention until what? Until he socializes with the other kid?

You don't know much about freedom do you? You sure don't respect it.

[Amacada]

You think ostracizing the other kid is bullying yet you recognize that you can't force kids to socialize. Suppose the kid keeps ignoring the other kid? What consequences? Put him back in detention until what? Until he socializes with the other kid?

You don't know much about freedom do you? You sure don't respect it.

We shouldn't be teaching kids good manners?
Nor punishing them if they fail to display them?

[Bmoreteacher]

You think ostracizing the other kid is bullying yet you recognize that you can't force kids to socialize. Suppose the kid keeps ignoring the other kid? What consequences? Put him back in detention until what? Until he socializes with the other kid?

You don't know much about freedom do you? You sure don't respect it.

Do you know what ostracizing means? Yes, ostracizing other kids because they are different is bullying, and it should carry a consequence. I've already said you can't make kids socialize with other kids, so the fact that you continue bringing it up shows that you're either not reading or you're unable.

I know plenty about freedom. You don't know much about how schools run, and your examples are positively stupid. Kids DO NOT have the "freedom" to purposely make other kids feel like crap.

[Smokey 1]

Do you know what ostracizing means?

Yes I do. Maybe you don't. It is just more than one person ignoring someone.

World English Dictionary
ostracize or ostracise (ˈɒstrəˌsaɪz)

— vb
1. to exclude or banish (a person) from a particular group, society, etc
2. (in ancient Greece) to punish by temporary exile

Yes, ostracizing other kids because they are different is bullying, and it should carry a consequence. I've already said you can't make kids socialize with other kids, so the fact that you continue bringing it up shows that you're either not reading or you're unable.

No, I don't understand your circular logic here. If ostracizing other kids is bullying and is a violation that carries a consequence, and you acknowledge that you can't force kids to socialize, how will the parties in violation not be in violation without them being "forced" to socialize with the other kids? Will they be in virtual violation all year?

I know plenty about freedom. You don't know much about how schools run, and your examples are positively stupid. Kids DO NOT have the "freedom" to purposely make other kids feel like crap.

Are you saying the students don't have the same rights in school that they have on the outside? I didn't know they left their rights on the "school house door".

[Amacada]

I fail to see how anyone can believe that socialising is the only alternative to ostracising.

Ridiculous.

It's possible to acknowledge someone without socialising with them. Is that really so hard to understand?