Learn from Tom Brady

[OriginalColtsFan]

i think it would be interesting to see flacco as a brown or a jag. maybe even with the jets. ravens would get tremendously compensated for it so its worth looking at. and it would help their cap situation

smh

[HAIL2BNG]

When Brady first got that kind of money were you asking the same questions?

How about five post season appearances in five years. Overall post season wins, Superbowl ring, total wins, etc. etc. etc. He's not exactly a slouch. Pay the man.

When Brady signed his deal, he had won a few Super Bowls and was a consistent top rated QB.

[OriginalColtsFan]

When Brady signed his deal, he had won a few Super Bowls and was a consistent top rated QB.

He ALSO had one of the best O-lines and OC's in the NFL, along with more than adequate supporting players. Who did Joe have his first year or two? A one-armed slow possession receiver in Mason and an end of his career tight end in Heap. Wow. Really impressive. Joe has done more with less than just about ANY other QB in the NFL. And with Cameron tying one hand behind his back the previous 3 years. He hasn't even had the same O-line in 2 consecutive years! And he's STILL managed to break or tie some long standing NFL records.

[Ravens2006]

He doubled his guaranteed money. Let's not act like he simply restructured for no other reason than to graciously help the team's cap situation. This wasn't a completely self-less act. He'll be 36 years old in week one of 2013. He'll turn 41 when the deal, with the extra guaranteed money is up. He's already missed one full season due to major injury. There's a risk / reward factor in play here on both sides of the deal.

"...The new contract also provides Brady more financial protection in the event he suffers a career-ending injury in 2013, increasing the money guaranteed to him from $25 million to $57 million. Brady has already suffered one catastrophic injury in his career, at the beginning of the 2008 season..."

http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/...ed-deal-source

[durango46]

I agree that the situations with Brady and Joe Flacco are completely different. This is Joe's time to make the most he possibly can. No one would argue his motives. The question of whether the Ravens should accomodate the question of making him the highest paid QB in the league is something else altogether.

As far as the comments about Cleveland jumping all over the opportunity - we'll likely have an opportunity to see the number of teams and how high they are willing to jump starting next week. If the exclusive franchise tag is used, Cleveland will have the opportunity to make Joe the highest piad QB in the league and hand over to us their #1 pick this year AND next year.

It will certainly be interesting to watch what happens if that were to play out with Cleveland or Jax, or whoever. But really - I wouldn't be so confident that is going to happen. We'll find out soon.

This was my question a couple of weeks ago...Will any team be willing to pay Flacco $20M and give up the 2 1st round picks. I know I have my doubts.

Would that move really benefit the Browns in either the short OR the long run ? Seriously....Flacco and $20M for 2 first rounders ???? Can't wait to find out.
Seems to me the closer it gets to the franchise deadline (Mar. 4th) the more likely the two sides aren't going to get the deal done.

I'm a Flacco supporter....BUT, he is no or never will be Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees or Peyton Manning.

Flacco needs to get paid...but would it be in his best interest to sacrifice possibly Ellerbe, Boldin, Jones, Kruger, Reed, Pitta and McKinnie ?
If Flacco is willing to defer some money, I feel Suggs and Ngata need to do the same.

If I was a GM in this league.....I'm just not sure I can justify giving Flacco $20M strapping MY TEAM financially and more importantly giving up the 2 FIRST ROUND PICKS. How can you make him the highest paid QB in football when he's clearly NOT the best QB in football ?

Good luck guys

[Ravens2006]

After 5 years in the NFL, Tom Brady was averaging (as a starter)...

61.6%... about 3480 yards per season... 24 TDs... 13 INTs...

After 5 years in the NFL, Joe Flacco is averaging...

60.5%.... about 3525 yards per season... 21 TDs... 11 INTs...

Want to tell me how remarkably different they are at this point in their careers? If Vinatieri doesn't hit some huge FGs in the playoffs, maybe Brady only has one ring in that span. If Evans catches a pass, or Cundiff makes a chip shot FG, maybe Flacco has at least two rings already. Football's a team game, and the rings aren't all about one guy. But their individual accomplishments, at identical points in their careers, are pretty striking.

You can play pretty much the same game when comparing him to Brees after his first 5 in the NFL. Manning had bigger numbers, but a lot more INTs came with them. Brees wasn't Brees after 5 years. Manning wasn't present-day Manning after 5 years (and still had a rep for choking in the playoffs). These guys aren't defined by just their first few years in the league. Heck, Brady was basically Flacco through his first half decade in the NFL, but his team contributed more to their titles too.

[HAIL2BNG]

He ALSO had one of the best O-lines and OC's in the NFL, along with more than adequate supporting players. Who did Joe have his first year or two? A one-armed slow possession receiver in Mason and an end of his career tight end in Heap. Wow. Really impressive. Joe has done more with less than just about ANY other QB in the NFL. And with Cameron tying one hand behind his back the previous 3 years. He hasn't even had the same O-line in 2 consecutive years! And he's STILL managed to break or tie some long standing NFL records.

Amazing.

[OriginalColtsFan]

This was my question a couple of weeks ago...Will any team be willing to pay Flacco $20M and give up the 2 1st round picks. I know I have my doubts.

Would that move really benefit the Browns in either the short OR the long run ? Seriously....Flacco and $20M for 2 first rounders ???? Can't wait to find out.
Seems to me the closer it gets to the franchise deadline (Mar. 4th) the more likely the two sides aren't going to get the deal done.

I'm a Flacco supporter....BUT, he is no or never will be Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees or Peyton Manning.

Flacco needs to get paid...but would it be in his best interest to sacrifice possibly Ellerbe, Boldin, Jones, Kruger, Reed, Pitta and McKinnie ?
If Flacco is willing to defer some money, I feel Suggs and Ngata need to do the same.

If I was a GM in this league.....I'm just not sure I can justify giving Flacco $20M strapping MY TEAM financially and more importantly giving up the 2 FIRST ROUND PICKS. How can you make him the highest paid QB in football when he's clearly NOT the best QB in football ?

Good luck guys

Dude...please give me that crystal ball you have that proves that Joe will NEVER be...blah...blah...blah. I'd love to use it for the next couple of LOTTO numbers, okay?

[durango46]

After 5 years in the NFL, Tom Brady was averaging (as a starter)...

61.6%... about 3480 yards per season... 24 TDs... 13 INTs...

After 5 years in the NFL, Joe Flacco is averaging...

60.5%.... about 3525 yards per season... 21 TDs... 11 INTs...

Want to tell me how remarkably different they are at this point in their careers? If Vinatieri doesn't hit some huge FGs in the playoffs, maybe Brady only has one ring in that span. If Evans catches a pass, or Cundiff makes a chip shot FG, maybe Flacco already has at least two rings already. Football's a team game, and the rings aren't all about one guy. But their individual accomplishments, at identical points in their careers, are pretty striking.

interesting stats that I was not aware of.....and I agree everything is relevant to the game of football. A TEAM GAME

It's easy to speculate on the what ifs correct ? because just as easily as you can say Brady may not have won 3 Super Bowls if not for Vinatieri you could turn that around and say he could have won 5 if it wasn't for that crappy defense.

I measure their play by what I see on the field and in my mind their is no way I can put Flacco in the same category as Brady and neither would most NFL Football fans.Two months ago many football fans including Ravens fans were fed up Joe....again.

[OriginalColtsFan]

Amazing.

Yes. He is amazing. Compare his closest rival, Matt Ryan. Look what the Falcons did to surround Ryan with true top tier talent. And compare that to what Joe has had to put up with. It's not even close. Tony Gonzalez. Roddy White. Julio Jones. Michael Turner. No contest to what the Ravens have trotted out there, year in and year out. Hell...until Torrey Smith, the Ravens didn't even have a legitimate down field threat. And in Cameron's high school offense? Yes. Joe has truly done an amazing job indeed.

[OriginalColtsFan]

interesting stats that I was not aware of.....and I agree everything is relevant to the game of football. A TEAM GAME

It's easy to speculate on the what ifs correct ? because just as easily as you can say Brady may not have won 3 Super Bowls if not for Vinatieri you could turn that around and say he could have won 5 if it wasn't for that crappy defense.

I measure their play by what I see on the field and in my mind their is no way I can put Flacco in the same category as Brady and neither would most NFL Football fans.Two months ago many football fans including Ravens fans were fed up Joe....again.

Actually, most knowledgeable football fans were fed up with Cam Cameron. Again. And the stupid O-line with Michael Oher at LT. Again. Only knee-jerk know-nothings were fed up with Joe.

[durango46]

Dude...please give me that crystal ball you have that proves that Joe will NEVER be...blah...blah...blah. I'd love to use it for the next couple of LOTTO numbers, okay?

I knew my post would get this type of response from you. Predictable

So...let me say this first. I like you...
but... I am entitled to my opinion as you are yours. Just because you think Flacco can or will measure up to Brady, Rodgers, Brees and Peyton doesn't mean I have to subscribe to that theory. You have to admit you are in the minority here.

All 4 of those QBs will go down in history as some of the the very best. This is indisputable. Flacco ??????????? I have my doubts. But who knows I may be wrong. I have no crystal ball....NOR DO YOU. This is based on ones opinions.

I am a Flacco fan.. but I am a realist.

and dude....you really need to get your head out of Joes a s s and look at this objectively. Why do you choose to attack people when they disagree with you ? Actually you and I share some of the same opinions about Flacco

[OriginalColtsFan]

I knew my post would get this type of response from you. Predictable

So...let me say this first. I like you...
but... I am entitled to my opinion as you are yours. Just because you think Flacco can or will measure up to Brady, Rodgers, Brees and Peyton doesn't mean I have to subscribe to that theory. You have to admit you are in the minority here.

All 4 of those QBs will go down in history as some of the the very best. This is indisputable. Flacco ??????????? I have my doubts. But who knows I may be wrong. I have no crystal ball....NOR DO YOU. This is based on ones opinions.

I am a Flacco fan.. but I am a realist.

and dude....you really need to get your head out of Joes a s s and look at this objectively.

1. I've enjoyed our exchanges in the game day threads a lot.
2. I would not say that your position on Joe Flacco in any way represents the majority position here. And if it does, all that goes to show is that the majority of fans here don't know what Joe brings to the table.
3. Joe has already gone down in history after only 5 years with record breaking or record tying performances under extremely handicapped situations.
4. Dude...I AM looking at it "objectively". For YEARS, with some of the BEST D's in the NFL, the Ravens sputtered because of bad QB play. Enter Joe Flacco. Since he arrived the Ravens have kicked serious butt. All the while, their D has dwindled further and further down the rankings. Who is the ONLY single factor accounting for the Ravens success? It's Joe, man. And either you see that, or you don't. But it has nothing to do with my lack of objectivity; it has to do with yours.

[Ravens2006]

interesting stats that I was not aware of.....and I agree everything is relevant to the game of football. A TEAM GAME

It's easy to speculate on the what ifs correct ? because just as easily as you can say Brady may not have won 3 Super Bowls if not for Vinatieri you could turn that around and say he could have won 5 if it wasn't for that crappy defense...

Yep. I just think it's worth keeping their whole careers in perspective. We forget now, because Brady and Manning (and Brees) became 5000 yard, 40+ TD machines, that through their first 5 or 6 years in the NFL... they weren't the "video game" talents they've since become. Drew Brees didn't start putting up huge numbers until he went to what many would have considered at the time a (much) weaker conference, and started playing over half his games indoors on fast turf. Someone will likely point out his separation from Cam Cameron too.

Maybe it's fair to say that Flacco "isn't Brady" or "isn't Manning" or "isn't Brees". But for the most part, they weren't significantly different from Joe after 4 or 5 years in the league either. We're comparing their talents at different stages of their career. And as I noted in another thread a while back... while the phrase "You have to have a top tier QB" to win it all sure seems right, and essentially it helps a hell of a lot... the majority of Superbowl winning QBs since 2000 have been guys who posted seasons a lot more similar to what Joe's shown us so far, than guys who posted 4500 yard, 35+ TD numbers too.

[HAIL2BNG]

1. I've enjoyed our exchanges in the game day threads a lot.
2. I would not say that your position on Joe Flacco in any way represents the majority position here. And if it does, all that goes to show is that the majority of fans here don't know what Joe brings to the table.
3. Joe has already gone down in history after only 5 years with record breaking or record tying performances under extremely handicapped situations.
4. Dude...I AM looking at it "objectively". For YEARS, with some of the BEST D's in the NFL, the Ravens sputtered because of bad QB play. Enter Joe Flacco. Since he arrived the Ravens have kicked serious butt. All the while, their D has dwindled further and further down the rankings. Who is the ONLY single factor accounting for the Ravens success? It's Joe, man. And either you see that, or you don't. But it has nothing to do with my lack of objectivity; it has to do with yours.

You're not remotely objective if you think Flacco is the only reason you guys win. If your front office agrees, you're screwed for years to come.

[bmore_ken]

That's the dumbest post I have read here for a while, congrats

I think that was the dumbest post ever

[OriginalColtsFan]

You're not remotely objective if you think Flacco is the only reason you guys win. If your front office agrees, you're screwed for years to come.

Please just keep rooting for the Redskins. That's really all I ask. TIA.

(And good luck in trying to find YOUR franchise QB. You know...one who can actually stay on the field for an entire 16 game season, plus post season play as well. For 5 years and counting. Okay?)

[HAIL2BNG]

Please just keep rooting for the Redskins. That's really all I ask. TIA.

(And good luck in trying to find YOUR franchise QB. You know...one who can actually stay on the field for an entire 16 game season, plus post season play as well.)

Even at 80%, he's better than Flacco. You keep pretending you have Brady 2.0. Lol

[durango46]

1. I've enjoyed our exchanges in the game day threads a lot.
2. I would not say that your position on Joe Flacco in any way represents the majority position here. And if it does, all that goes to show is that the majority of fans here don't know what Joe brings to the table.
3. Joe has already gone down in history after only 5 years with record breaking or record tying performances under extremely handicapped situations.
4. Dude...I AM looking at it "objectively". For YEARS, with some of the BEST D's in the NFL, the Ravens sputtered because of bad QB play. Enter Joe Flacco. Since he arrived the Ravens have kicked serious butt. All the while, their D has dwindled further and further down the rankings. Who is the ONLY single factor accounting for the Ravens success? It's Joe, man. And either you see that, or you don't. But it has nothing to do with my lack of objectivity; it has to do with yours.

I have also enjoyed our exchanges...but nobody will agree on everything.

When I stated you are in the minority here....I did not mean these boards. I mean't NFL fans in general. Thus giving my OPINION a bit more credence. Guess it didn't work huh ?

totally agree with #3

As for #4......I get you're a huge Flacco supporter...I am also a big Joe Flacco guy, just not to the the degree you are I guess.
I still have some doubts about his play at times during some of those regular season games.
You would have to admit it has been erratic in the past at times. What causes those poor performances ? IMO, it WAS Cam. But there were other factors......including Joe himself.


but hey in the long run....we both want the same thing

[bmore_ken]

Amazing.

What did he say that was inaccurate?