Learn from Tom Brady

[HAIL2BNG]

What did he say that was inaccurate?

Most of it but the "has done more with less" made me chuckle the most.

[NCBirdfan]

Even at 80%, he's better than Flacco. You keep pretending you have Brady 2.0. Lol

80% is about how many games he played this season and next.
80% is the odds he will still be rehabilitating and not playing when the 2013 NFL season begins.
80 % is the chance he'll be injured again in the future.

[OriginalColtsFan]

I have also enjoyed our exchanges...but nobody will agree on everything.

When I stated you are in the minority here....I did not mean these boards. I mean't NFL fans in general. Thus giving my OPINION a bit more credence. Guess it didn't work huh ?

totally agree with #3

As for #4......I get you're a huge Flacco supporter...I am also a big Joe Flacco guy, just not to the the degree you are I guess.
I still have some doubts about his play at times during some of those regular season games.
You would have to admit it has been erratic in the past at times. What causes those poor performances ? IMO, it WAS Cam. But there were other factors......including Joe himself.


but hey in the long run....we both want the same thing

The main area in which I -- AND Greg Cosell -- believe Joe needs to continue to improve is in the area of reading D's and blitzes faster and better. I'm not even going to get into "pocket awareness", because the Raven's O-line has been so inconsistent, it doesn't even merit discussion. But reading D's happens BEFORE the ball is snapped, so to a certain extent, the O-line play, while still relevant to the execution of the overall play, is not that relevant to the pre-snap reads.

I also think that Joe needs to improve hitting WRs in stride. But just watching the games AFTER Cameron was gone, where there was actually NATURAL separation created by the PLAY DESIGN, and Joe WAS throwing the ball before the WRs made their cuts...he's already DOING that. He was hampered by Cameron in just about every imaginable way, from stupid high risk play calling, to unimaginative play design, to being throttled and over managed when it came to audibles and player input. It was a total blitzkreig. Now he's free to let it roll. And the first shot he got, he went 11 TDs/ZERO ints, and a Super Bowl. Dude...it really doesn't require any more "evidence" than that.

And don't forget...I was one of the people calling for Bulger a few years back because I felt that Joe was just too slow in getting rid of the ball. And I took a lot of heat for that. So it's not that I'm blind when it comes to seeing Joe; it's more that I'm willing to give him credit for what he's done and will continue to do in the NFL.

[OriginalColtsFan]

Most of it but the "has done more with less" made me chuckle the most.

That's so ironic coming from a fan of the team that leads the league in annually doing less with more. (Well...the 'Skins and the 'Boys are neck and neck in that department, I'll give you that.)

[CajunRaven]

That's the dumbest post I have read here for a while, congrats

Well, give him one thing, he is consistent.

[Ravens2006]

And I'll keep going back to the first DEN game this year. Joe's first half performance had more people than maybe ever before giving up on him, cursing him, etc. The high throws out of bounds on (apparent) quick outs, the "inaccurate" passes off receivers hands, then the end-of-half back breaking INT... a lot of folks assumed in the moment that we had seen all Joe would ever be.

But if you really analyzed the film a little more, as painful as that was to watch... you noticed that Joe's high throws out-of-bounds were a result of Miller / Dumervil / Brooks / Smith getting tremendous jumps off the snap, destroying their man one on one, and sprinting in to Joe's face in under two seconds... many times before he could even complete his drop. Some of the dropped passes were thrown just a tad too far out in front because Joe simply unloaded early to avoid a sack. The bad throws were really mostly Joe unloading quickly to avoid the sack, or intentionally putting it up high under pressure so that nobody else would come down with it. The INT was mostly on him... but it was just about the most poorly timed goof you could have imagined. Though even there, keep in mind that the patterns sent 4 outside targets to bunch up in two small windows... both outside the hashes. The DBs had little / no ground to defend. Still, he shouldn't have thrown that pass at that moment... but mistakes happen. It just turned in to a "low-light" reel feature that suddenly erased all the good things Joe has done and shown.

[HAIL2BNG]

80% is about how many games he played this season and next.
80% is the odds he will still be rehabilitating and not playing when the 2013 NFL season begins.
80 % is the chance he'll be injured again in the future.

And 100% he's better than Elite Joe, the Tom Brady of Baltimore minus the hall of fame talent.

[HAIL2BNG]

That's so ironic coming from a fan of the team that leads the league in annually doing less with more. (Well...the 'Skins and the 'Boys are neck and neck in that department, I'll give you that.)

Cowboys yes. Redskins no. They only recently can be considered to have any real talent to contend and they won their division.

[OriginalColtsFan]

It just turned in to a "low-light" reel feature that suddenly erased all the good things Joe has done and shown.

It only erased all the good things Joe had done and shown before that for SOME fans. No?

[durango46]

The main area in which I -- AND Greg Cosell -- believe Joe needs to continue to improve is in the area of reading D's and blitzes faster and better. I'm not even going to get into "pocket awareness", because the Raven's O-line has been so inconsistent, it doesn't even merit discussion. But reading D's happens BEFORE the ball is snapped, so to a certain extent, the O-line play, while still relevant to the execution of the overall play, is not that relevant to the pre-snap reads.

I also think that Joe needs to improve hitting WRs in stride. But just watching the games AFTER Cameron was gone, where there was actually NATURAL separation created by the PLAY DESIGN, and Joe WAS throwing the ball before the WRs made their cuts...he's already DOING that. He was hampered by Cameron in just about every imaginable way, from stupid high risk play calling, to unimaginative play design, to being throttled and over managed when it came to audibles and player input. It was a total blitzkreig. Now he's free to let it roll. And the first shot he got, he went 11 TDs/ZERO ints, and a Super Bowl. Dude...it really doesn't require any more "evidence" than that.

And don't forget...I was one of the people calling for Bulger a few years back because I felt that Joe was just too slow in getting rid of the ball. And I took a lot of heat for that. So it's not that I'm blind when it comes to seeing Joe; it's more that I'm willing to give him credit for what he's done and will continue to do in the NFL.

there is no denying we are in COMPLETE agreement when it comes to Cam being Joes biggest problem. I still believe Joe and Cam didn't get along. Pure speculation on my part though.

IMO, Joe turned the corner on being a star QB in this league when he started trusting his receivers in one on one matchups. What a difference that made.

Do you think that came down to Cam also ? Seemed his trust in his receivers changed right after Cam was canned.

[durango46]

And I'll keep going back to the first DEN game this year. Joe's first half performance had more people than maybe ever before giving up on him, cursing him, etc. The high throws out of bounds on (apparent) quick outs, the "inaccurate" passes off receivers hands, then the end-of-half back breaking INT... a lot of folks assumed in the moment that we had seen all Joe would ever be.

But if you really analyzed the film a little more, as painful as that was to watch... you noticed that Joe's high throws out-of-bounds were a result of Miller / Dumervil / Brooks / Smith getting tremendous jumps off the snap, destroying their man one on one, and sprinting in to Joe's face in under two seconds... many times before he could even complete his drop. Some of the dropped passes were thrown just a tad too far out in front because Joe simply unloaded early to avoid a sack. The bad throws were really mostly Joe unloading quickly to avoid the sack, or intentionally putting it up high under pressure so that nobody else would come down with it. The INT was mostly on him... but it was just about the most poorly timed goof you could have imagined. Though even there, keep in mind that the patterns sent 4 outside targets to bunch up in two small windows... both outside the hashes. The DBs had little / no ground to defend. Still, he shouldn't have thrown that pass at that moment... but mistakes happen. It just turned in to a "low-light" reel feature that suddenly erased all the good things Joe has done and shown.

I still believe that pick 6 versus Denver right before half was more Cams atrocious play calling than Joes.

A timing pattern in which Joe was throwing to a spot that the DB seemed to have read.

[OriginalColtsFan]

Cowboys yes. Redskins no. They only recently can be considered to have any real talent to contend and they won their division.

LOL. You really make me laugh. Your myopia is duly noted.

(Can you say "Adam Archuleta"? $30M, $10M guaranteed, who played safety 7 out of 16 games, and was gone the next year. And then there's Albert Haynesowrth. And we're only in the "A's".)

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[OriginalColtsFan]

there is no denying we are in COMPLETE agreement when it comes to Cam being Joes biggest problem. I still believe Joe and Cam didn't get along. Pure speculation on my part though.

IMO, Joe turned the corner on being a star QB in this league when he started trusting his receivers in one on one matchups. What a difference that made.

Do you think that came down to Cam also ? Seemed his trust in his receivers changed right after Cam was canned.

I think he trusted the plays, himself, AND his WRs. AND...just as importantly, I think the players began to respect and trust JOE more and more as his true character emerged from behind Cameron's shadow. Cameron literally undermined just about every aspect of the offense. Once it became Joe's, everything changed. And I think Ray Lewis's "endorsement" of Joe as the leader had a major impact as well. Just IMAGINE how things could have gone if only Cameron had been replaced 2 years ago.

[OriginalColtsFan]

I still believe that pick 6 versus Denver right before half was more Cams atrocious play calling than Joes.

A timing pattern in which Joe was throwing to a spot that the DB seemed to have read.

I don't know. I think I'll lay that one at Joe's feet. But at the risk of being called "un-objective"...I can't think of more than a handful of really BAD plays in Joe's 5 year career as a Raven. Can anybody else?

[HAIL2BNG]

LOL. You really make me laugh. Your myopia is duly noted.

(Can you say "Adam Archuleta"? $30M, $10M guaranteed, who played safety 7 out of 16 games, and was gone the next year. And then there's Albert Haynesowrth. And we're only in the "A's".)

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You're proving my point. You said they've done less with more. I said they haven't had any talent. You respond by telling me about some overpaid bags of crap. I rest my case.

[bmore_ken]

Most of it but the "has done more with less" made me chuckle the most.

All that means is you haven't been paying attention. No wonder you're a Skins fan, you're as clueless as your owner when it comes to football

[OriginalColtsFan]

You're proving my point. You said they've done less with more. I said they haven't had any talent. You respond by telling me about some overpaid bags of crap. I rest my case.

No. You're proving MY point. Your owner throws MORE money around, and ends up with LESS talent, than just about ANY other team NOT named the Cowboys.

[HAIL2BNG]

All that means is you haven't been paying attention. No wonder you're a Skins fan, you're as clueless as your owner when it comes to football

I pay plenty of attention and I know an average QB with a nice deep ball when I see one. Congrats, you don't need an elite QB to win it all. Your team proved that.

[HAIL2BNG]

No. You're proving MY point. Your owner throws MORE money around, and ends up with LESS talent, than just about ANY other team NOT named the Cowboys.

Spin it all you want. You need to have talent to "do less with more". You also haven't been paying attention if you had to go back to Archuletta and Haynesworth to make your point.

[Purplepea]

Well again Brady team is not on brink of self destruction like the Baltimore ravens.Where will Ravens get the money to pay all these top dallor players.This isn't baseball the well was dry before we started.And we are lost a lot of key players in order to compete with the steelers and bangles just look at the ravens like the government.We will out spend what cap space to keep a lot of players.There's a lot of offences that loose games.Wait until we loose leech bolden krueger darnel el.williams Ed read and a few more players that make us average