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  #81  
Old Yesterday, 04:40 AM
mrblack mrblack is offline
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Originally Posted by jtowne-swim View Post
ID as it is explained in the link you provide has no place in a science classroom. Philosphy...YES....Science.....NO

I believe it to be an attempt to clean up original creationism texts and curriculums to insert biblical creation stories into the classroom.

My personal belief is that there is indeed a God as evidenced by the awesome things we see in all of creation and big bang, macroevolution, microevolution and other models used to explain the origins of the universe and creation are simply attempts to explain the mechanisms which God may have used to create the universe and man.
Well it seems you are a believer in Intelligent Design then. Why would you not want the scientific evidence that would lead to the truth you believe to be there investigated and pursued scientifically. If it is real and the truth then surely scientifically showing it is a worthwhile pursuit.

I can see perhaps not liking the current form of ID you see presented, but closing it off totally as an avenue of study isn't the answer.

There are issues I have with some of the ID forms as well, but in the broadest sense it seems to me to be a worthwhile theory, ad as such able to contribute to the over furthering of scientific advances.

It seems dogmatic to close it off because the current establishment has an idealisitc bent.

But I respect your viewpoint on the issue, and certainly we are in agreement with one another with the observation that nature does point to a God or creator as evidenced by the awesome things we see in all of creation. I just think that scientifically your point can be documented and supported.
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  #82  
Old Yesterday, 12:16 PM
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jtowne-swim jtowne-swim is online now
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Well it seems you are a believer in Intelligent Design then. Why would you not want the scientific evidence that would lead to the truth you believe to be there investigated and pursued scientifically. If it is real and the truth then surely scientifically showing it is a worthwhile pursuit.

I can see perhaps not liking the current form of ID you see presented, but closing it off totally as an avenue of study isn't the answer.

There are issues I have with some of the ID forms as well, but in the broadest sense it seems to me to be a worthwhile theory, ad as such able to contribute to the over furthering of scientific advances.

It seems dogmatic to close it off because the current establishment has an idealisitc bent.

But I respect your viewpoint on the issue, and certainly we are in agreement with one another with the observation that nature does point to a God or creator as evidenced by the awesome things we see in all of creation. I just think that scientifically your point can be documented and supported.
Scientific evidence would be great but my point is this; The place to debate this and discuss it is NOT the biology classroom, it is a philosophy classroom.
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  #83  
Old Yesterday, 02:53 PM
georjec2 georjec2 is offline
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Your y=1/x formula could easily be y=1,000,000/x or y =0.00000001/x and still satisfy the limit in question. In other words the numerator in your equation could be any number and the answer would become that numerator.

So I could get any answer using the limit you chose.

ie..

y = 0.0000000001/x satisfies the lim that y approaches zero as x approaches infinity.

thus: x*y = x*(0.0000000001/x) = x/x = 0.0000000001

Your selection of one in the numerator for your particular thin air equation is bogus. And what are you trying to say with this equation? That having a non zero numerator implies that something will happen? That is certainly not what follows from having a non zero numerator, so the entire premise is flawed form its inception.


And your conditions are certainly NOT a valid for a purely random system where X EQUALS infinity and y EQUALS zero probability.



Ok....

The Nobel Prize-winning molecular biologist Jacques Monod wrote [1972:114]:

"The initial elementary events which open the way to evolution in the intensely conservative systems called living beings are microscopic, fortuitous, and totally unrelated to whatever may be their effects upon teleonomic functioning.
But once incorporated in the DNA structure, the accident -- essentially unpredictable because always singular -- will be mechanically and faithfully replicated and translated: that is to say, both multiplied and transposed into millions or thousands of millions of copies. Drawn from the realm of pure chance, the accident enters into that of necessity, of the most implacable certainties. For natural selection operates at the macroscopic level, the level of organisms."



Yours and others denial of the random chance aspect of the "Random Mutations and Natural Selection" process, by claiming the natural selection process portion is not random totally flies in the the face of what the theory really claims. That random mutations do occur, and that they are the MAJOR portion of the theory that is required to drive the process. Its pure selective denial.

And certainly the abiogensys theories that almost always go along with the theory certainly maintain a spontaneous generation aspect that depend on random chance by their very nature.



OK What do I even have to say about this statement which you haven't said for me.



Again...Intelligence whether front loaded or periodically tweaked is needed for the selection process to work.

I like Kelvin on this:

"Overwhelming strong proofs of intelligent and benevolent design lie around us ... The atheistic idea is so nonsensical that I cannot put it into words."
(Lord Kelvin, Vict. Inst., 124, p267)


Mr B...you're pretty smart too.
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  #84  
Old Yesterday, 03:00 PM
georjec2 georjec2 is offline
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If creationism is to be taught in the classroom then shouldn't there be a sticker afixed inside the binder that reads...this is only a theory ?
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  #85  
Old Yesterday, 03:07 PM
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jtowne-swim jtowne-swim is online now
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If creationism is to be taught in the classroom then shouldn't there be a sticker afixed inside the binder that reads...this is only a theory ?
No because creationism does not rise to the level of theory as there is no evidence to back it as a reasonable hypothesis.
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  #86  
Old Yesterday, 03:52 PM
georjec2 georjec2 is offline
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No because creationism does not rise to the level of theory as there is no evidence to back it as a reasonable hypothesis.
Just tryin to appease the creationists.
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