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  #1  
Old 08-21-2007, 06:31 AM
Observer Observer is offline
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Default Rachael Wilson: Deadly Neglect At Fire Academy

Today's Sun publishes a damning article, Deadly Neglect At Fire Academy that puts much of the blame on her instructors and some others. The story is on the report of outside investigation into the incident in which Rachael Wilson died.

I'm not a fire fighter, but I have some fire fighter friends. The article confirms what they've said, that Rachael Wilson (and others in her class) should never have been in the FD in the first place, and that what happened was almost an inevitability at some point due to politically directed Fire Academy admissions policies.

It was not Rachael Wilson's fault that at 5'4" and 192 pounds she wasn't able to pass the FD's agility tests, but it was somebody's fault that she wound up in a job where her lack of agility killed her. There were other contributing factors (such as ripped protective clothing and not being trained for the circumstance), but that glosses over the fact that she was in that situation at all, unable to get out of a window as she should have been able to do.

If Rachael Wilson had not died in that fire exercise none of the FD shortcomings (and there were many) would have come to light. But don't let those shortcomings push aside the issue of unsuitable candidates being accepted into the FD Academy and put in harms way.

There was a flap about the racial composition of a FD Academy class. Is Rachael Wilson's death a result of that? Color shouldn't count but competence must. The people who were responsible for Rachael Wilson's death (and I don't mean just her instructors) must be held to account.
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  #2  
Old 08-21-2007, 06:55 AM
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Menno of Verona Menno of Verona is offline
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I will have to disagree with you to a point...at 5'4" and 194 pounds, you HAVE at least give an individual the lion's share of responsibility for undertaking a career choice where there is no secret to the physical demands, and showing up fat and out of shape.

Whether the military, police or FD, when you are in that condition, you are not only a liability to yourself, but those you work with and support...no matter how PC your selection was...she should have been woman enough to know that she posed a danger to herself and to others.

I remember being in the military not that long ago that if you failed your physical fitness performance test, you had 30 days to retest...fail that one and you were processed for discharge, no matter your sex or color.
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Old 08-21-2007, 07:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Menno of Verona
I will have to disagree with you to a point...at 5'4" and 194 pounds, you HAVE at least give an individual the lion's share of responsibility for undertaking a career choice where there is no secret to the physical demands, and showing up fat and out of shape.

Whether the military, police or FD, when you are in that condition, you are not only a liability to yourself, but those you work with and support...no matter how PC your selection was...she should have been woman enough to know that she posed a danger to herself and to others.
Anyone can have a dream, and I can't fault her for trying. See next.

Quote:
I remember being in the military not that long ago that if you failed your physical fitness performance test, you had 30 days to retest...fail that one and you were processed for discharge, no matter your sex or color.
And there's the problem in this case. She never did pass the agility test, yet was permitted to continue.
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Old 08-21-2007, 07:48 AM
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Indeed, when she retook the agility test her score was worse than the 1st time she took it. This indicated that her physical conditioning had deteriorated between the 1st and 2nd attempts.
Additionally, it was disclosed that she had a habit of removing her breathing gear under stress. When she was found in the fire, her breathing gear was not on.
It is clear what happened here. An overweight, out of shape cadet, with a fatal performance habit was allowed to be in the program for PC reasons. Remember the outrage expressed when a Fire Academy class was found to be all white.
Pure and simple, in this case, PC policies cost this individual her life!
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  #5  
Old 08-21-2007, 08:04 AM
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In the attempt to hire as many minorities as possible the police and fire departments are pressured to hire unqualified people. It's been going on for quite some time with many negative results. Now a death.
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  #6  
Old 08-21-2007, 08:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caseyspal
Remember the outrage expressed when a Fire Academy class was found to be all white.
And it appeared that the most outraged person was Martin O'Malley.
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  #7  
Old 08-21-2007, 08:39 AM
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This is a very delicate subject since a fatality occurred. I am sure there were violations with the training program.

enough staff on scene...and the fact that the building was set on fire before.

Having said that my first thought the day I heard the news was, she panicked and pulled her mask off. It happens. Some people are not prepared to deal with the psychological affects of being in a smoke filled envoirnment.Add to that being physically challenged and you have a recipe for disaster. I blame the city for its hiring practices. There was outrage when there was an all white academy. The remedy of course was to hire as many minorities as possible. In their rush to fill vacancies I believe some candidates were pushed through the process that had no business performing this type of work. You have to pysically and mentally fit to be a fire fighter. Its a job I would not do. God bless the men and woman that do it.
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  #8  
Old 08-21-2007, 08:45 AM
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Very sad, but I think both the dept. and the individual are at fault. Passing this woman along was insane, and her willingly going along with that while failing the minimum standards was insane. She was clearly unfit to do the job, and she along with her supervisors had to know it.

She couldn't even hold the hose! Yet she took it into a burning building. She knew it, they knew it, and yet she was given a pass.

And you know theres probably lots of firefighters just like her, putting their lives and the lives of others at risk beyond the obvious dangers.

5' 4" and 192 should be enough to remove you from the scene, even if you pass the agility tests. The ability to move quickly through unpredictable environments (not the static tests) should be a high priority.

The quest for diversity and inclusion is noble, but not in this situation.
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  #9  
Old 08-21-2007, 08:50 AM
Knuckledragger Knuckledragger is offline
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Default Responsibility

There are two inherent principles in Command, authority and responsibility. A Commander may delegate his or her authority, but can never delegate responsibility. There have been several significant incidents both nationally and locally where people in responsible postitions immediately pointed fingers at those below them to fix responsibility. Waco and Ruby Ridge come to mind for national leadership blunders. Locally, this one, albeit new, has the same hallmarks. Mayor Dixon wants accountability as does the Fire Chief. Pardon me, but just who is in charge of the Fire Department? Who appoints the Fire Chief? Who appointed the Director of the Fire Academy? Who chose to elevate individuals to positions that they were ill-prepared to fill? Who insisted that people who were not physically qualified be allowed to be hired for such a physically demanding position? You can blame those instructors for using poor judgement and breaking standards, but I think there is a lot more blame to go around and that blame needs to go back to who is ultimately RESPONSIBLE.
If an agency or city government insists on hiring people that really don't make the cut physically, then the instructors are obligated to make the training as realistic as possible so that these candidates can see what is going to be facing them when they get assigned to station houses. Baltimore has a lot of fires, large dangerous fires, killer fires. Baltimore has thousands of vacant properties that are just tinder boxes. Are we doing anyone a favor by hiring people that can't cut it? We have a dead recruit, children without a mother and a family in grief. Who won? Who is responsible?
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Old 08-21-2007, 09:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pepper
Very sad, but I think both the dept. and the individual are at fault. Passing this woman along was insane, and her willingly going along with that while failing the minimum standards was insane. She was clearly unfit to do the job, and she along with her supervisors had to know it.

She couldn't even hold the hose! Yet she took it into a burning building. She knew it, they knew it, and yet she was given a pass.

And you know theres probably lots of firefighters just like her, putting their lives and the lives of others at risk beyond the obvious dangers.

5' 4" and 192 should be enough to remove you from the scene, even if you pass the agility tests. The ability to move quickly through unpredictable environments (not the static tests) should be a high priority.

The quest for diversity and inclusion is noble, but not in this situation.
I have to agree! Ms. Wilson was unfit to be a firefighter and this was forced. It wasn't a good fit. Sadly, it took her demise to confirm it. You can aspire and dream of being something, but if you don't pass the tests, it's not meant to be.
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  #11  
Old 08-21-2007, 10:58 AM
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Talk about blaming the victim. She was working hard to provide for her family. You have no idea if her 190 lbs was a muscular 190 lbs or if she really was out of shape. She tried and the system failed her, not the other way around.
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  #12  
Old 08-21-2007, 11:04 AM
lanaloo lanaloo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knuckledragger
There are two inherent principles in Command, authority and responsibility. A Commander may delegate his or her authority, but can never delegate responsibility. There have been several significant incidents both nationally and locally where people in responsible postitions immediately pointed fingers at those below them to fix responsibility. Waco and Ruby Ridge come to mind for national leadership blunders. Locally, this one, albeit new, has the same hallmarks. Mayor Dixon wants accountability as does the Fire Chief. Pardon me, but just who is in charge of the Fire Department? Who appoints the Fire Chief? Who appointed the Director of the Fire Academy? Who chose to elevate individuals to positions that they were ill-prepared to fill? Who insisted that people who were not physically qualified be allowed to be hired for such a physically demanding position? You can blame those instructors for using poor judgement and breaking standards, but I think there is a lot more blame to go around and that blame needs to go back to who is ultimately RESPONSIBLE.
If an agency or city government insists on hiring people that really don't make the cut physically, then the instructors are obligated to make the training as realistic as possible so that these candidates can see what is going to be facing them when they get assigned to station houses. Baltimore has a lot of fires, large dangerous fires, killer fires. Baltimore has thousands of vacant properties that are just tinder boxes. Are we doing anyone a favor by hiring people that can't cut it? We have a dead recruit, children without a mother and a family in grief. Who won? Who is responsible?
you keep on asking questions like this in such a cogent, well thought out manner, and i'll vote for you. i don't care what office you're running for.

out-freakin-standing post.

you sir...GET it.
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  #13  
Old 08-21-2007, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThinkingMom
Talk about blaming the victim. She was working hard to provide for her family. You have no idea if her 190 lbs was a muscular 190 lbs or if she really was out of shape. She tried and the system failed her, not the other way around.
There is no muscular 190 when you are 5'4.
The system did fail her. She should never have been hired if she couldn't complete the agility test.
She couldn't climb out the window, she was not in proper shape.
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Old 08-21-2007, 11:50 AM
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This is the problem when you let politicians make decisions within a fire dept, you get people pushed along for political reasons.

If the fire dept and the police were allowed to do their jobs without stupid politicians the city would be far better of.
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  #15  
Old 08-21-2007, 12:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThinkingMom
Talk about blaming the victim. She was working hard to provide for her family. You have no idea if her 190 lbs was a muscular 190 lbs or if she really was out of shape. She tried and the system failed her, not the other way around.
That works if she actually thought she could do the job. Having repeatedly failed the tests, and not even being able to hold a water hose, it had to be obvious even to her that she couldn't do the job.

The story makes it very clear she was not in good physical shape.
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Old 08-21-2007, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pepper
That works if she actually thought she could do the job. Having repeatedly failed the tests, and not even being able to hold a water hose, it had to be obvious even to her that she couldn't do the job.

The story makes it very clear she was not in good physical shape.

Why did the entire command structure fail and put her in harm's way?...and where was the rescue team that was supposed to be there?...and who IS responsible for the other 100 VIOLATIONS.

You people make me sick..in blaming the student victim of FD ignorance, sloppiness, and (perhaps) lethal racial and gender bias.
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Old 08-21-2007, 12:43 PM
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lethal racial and gender bias?

please explain.
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Old 08-21-2007, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smithie
Why did the entire command structure fail and put her in harm's way?...and where was the rescue team that was supposed to be there?...and who IS responsible for the other 100 VIOLATIONS.

You people make me sick..in blaming the student victim of FD ignorance, sloppiness, and (perhaps) lethal racial and gender bias.


Racial bias? I think you are way off on that- Gender issue comes into play when physical strength is needed to complete a task. I fail to see the racial bias at all.
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Old 08-21-2007, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lanaloo
lethal racial and gender bias?

please explain.

I thought she was female and black...and given shoddy gear and inapproprtiate back up in a fire that was set as a homocidial trap.
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  #20  
Old 08-21-2007, 01:44 PM
ridgerunner ridgerunner is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThinkingMom
Talk about blaming the victim. She was working hard to provide for her family. You have no idea if her 190 lbs was a muscular 190 lbs or if she really was out of shape. She tried and the system failed her, not the other way around.
(1) She failed the agility test-twice. (2) She could not pull herself out a window antoher trainee did. I think we have a real good idea if she out of shape or muscular.
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