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Zack80

Are the days of MIAA lax dominance numbered?

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Which is exactly why I am not weighing in regarding AHS.

 

That said, I am fairly confident in saying that you won't find any mouth breathers, or "retards" taking IB or AP classes. When I went to school, we had no options like AP. Everybody was thrown in together. If that system still existed today, then I would agree that I would NOT want my kids in a disruptive environment. With the exception of interacting in the hall ways, or at lunch, the AP kids are surrounded by kids that have similar interest to learn and excel.

 

If I can find the link, I will post it. But about 2 years ago there was a great (long-term) study that pretty much nailed it. The conclusions were basically what I've been saying: Driven individuals will succeed in almost any academic environment - both at the HS and college levels. I assume that the caevat of "almost" is meant to address those schools that are very disruptive, and have few, if any advanced,. or AP course opportunities.

 

Yet the educational model you are talking profits the motivated "individual". It does not PROVIDE the motivation to succeed. It does not push the student to strive for more than they already know they are capable of attaining.

 

Thus the difference. Curae Personalis vs. Public Schools with IB programs.

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Yet the educational model you are talking profits the motivated "individual". It does not PROVIDE the motivation to succeed. It does not push the student to strive for more than they already know they are capable of attaining.

 

Thus the difference. Curae Personalis vs. Public Schools with IB programs.

 

 

For the most part, "motivation" comes from within, and from the family - not from the schools.

 

Ergo, that's one reason why Asian students often excel in school. They're not smarter than everyone else, it simply boils down to the expectations and milestones set down by their parents. For many (and I know many), failure is not a viable option. When I was at Cornell, we had many suicides. This is still a problem at Cornell. Sadly, Cornell is an easy place to commit suicide, because of all the gorges, etc. Coincidentally, a large percentage of the suicides were from Asian students who bore the "motivational" burden imparted to them by their parents. When they struggled at Cornell, some could not cope.

 

Motivation is NOT institutional.

 

While I can not speak to the AP curriculum at most private schools, I have seen what is offered at Sp. There is a huge range in the topics offered, as well as the degree (or level) of difficulty. I've seen the books and notes my kids were taking, while in math, physics, biology, chemistry, etc...and for the most part, even for me, the advanced levels offered a high degree of challenege to all but the most gifted. When my kids exceeded the degree to which they could handle, they both took courses at AACC...which, coincidentally, those credits were accepted when they went on to college. Private or public HS ...learning and being challenged need not stop at the HS building. My kids found AACC (while still at SP), to be a great local asset to them.

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2005terp,

 

For what it's worth, if my kids were in the ASH district, I would not hesitate to send them there. They have good teachers, and demanding curriculum. yes, there are elements that i would not want my kids to associate with. But you know what, that's pretty much true at every school...all that means is, as a parent, I get more involved in their lives. But the potential to exceed at AHS is there.

 

Just a quick antinodal story - One of SP's hockey coaches just got married and my wife and I attended. The guest list was amusing. All the folks he invited were of the garden variety public school, beer drinking and hockey playing sector. The bride, on the other hand, attended Severn School, and then went on to some small (private) liberal arts college I had never heard of 9and I know many). In any event, it was very easy to pick out the grooms friends, from the brides friends. After the reception was over, most of us had to take a chartered bus (we were over on the Eastern Shore) from where the reception was held, to our hotels...about a 15 minute ride. I have never met such a rude, obnoxious (extremely drunk) crowd, as the group from Severn. Dropping the F-bomb the entire way back. It got so bad that the bus driver actually stopped the bus to tell them to "shut up, or they will be walking back". At one point, the guy sitting next to my wife 9across the isle) started to grope my wife...that almost lead to a fight between him, and me. Keep in mind, most of the attendees were in their mid-20's...

 

Anyway, the point of my story is to simply illustrate that even those from the best (private) HS's and colleges, can be A-holes

 

Like I said, I went to private school K-8 but went to AHS because of it's strong academic program. I grew up in a very nice neighborhood like a lot of kids from AHS, and I'm glad I went to school with kids who grew up differently from me. I'm glad I wasn't sheltered from a group of people in the same town from which I lived, whom I probably never would have met otherwise. I'm also happy I had friends who lived in multi-million dollar houses on the water and friends who lived in public housing. I'm not trying to make it sound like a utopia, but everyone got along. I was also very involved, playing 3 sports and being a peer "team member" lol. That riff-raff crap is very minor and stays between a very very small group of students, and doesn't affect the rest of the school.

 

I have friends who went to the private high schools, too. St. Mary's can't come close to the academic program of AHS. See which colleges St. Mary's kids (not on lax teams) get into compared to those of AHS. Key School and Severn are great schools, but both are about $16,000/year. Unless you want to ride 45 minutes to DC or B-More for high school, what option do parents from solid families in Annapolis have?

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Like I said, I went to private school K-8 but went to AHS because of it's strong academic program. .

 

As I pointed out to another poster, this is exactly what many educators would recommend. That is, private education, with smaller and more individual teaching setting at the elementary school level. That's exactly where all the fundamentals are developed...and where many students can get sidetracked in a larger class environment.

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FWIW- I have 3 friends who went to Severn. One got kicked out of college for getting arrested twice. Another graduated from college in 6 years (was not in grad school.) And another had to go to prep school AFTER Severn just to get admitted to a decent university.

 

To be clear, I wouldn't want to send my kids to a bad public school

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FWIW- I have 3 friends who went to Severn. One got kicked out of college for getting arrested twice. Another graduated from college in 6 years (was not in grad school.) And another had to go to prep school AFTER Severn just to get admitted to a decent university.

 

 

Privilege can sometimes have it's disadvantages, and kids can lose their way in any situation. It's just more probable in "bad" schools...which is exactly why parental guidance is so important the worse the school is.

 

It all begins with the family.

 

Terp - as you might expect, I have many Asian students, and it never ceases to amaze me that many of these kids (or their parents) come to this country speaking no, or very little English...yet, they are focused and know what needs to be done. When you look at the distribution of grades, rarely will you find any Asian students at the bottom. They are who they are because of their parents (primarily)...not because they went to some private school. In fact, few Asians attend private high schools. Yet, they populate, well beyond their % in the population, most of the top colleges in this country.

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Privilege can sometimes have it's disadvantages, and kids can lose their way in any situation. It's just more probable in "bad" schools...which is exactly why parental guidance is so important the worse the school is.

 

It all begins with the family.

 

Terp - as you might expect, I have many Asian students, and it never ceases to amaze me that many of these kids (or their parents) come to this country speaking no, or very little English...yet, they are focused and know what needs to be done. When you look at the distribution of grades, rarely will you find any Asian students at the bottom. They are who they are because of their parents (primarily)...not because they went to some private school. In fact, few Asians attend private high schools. Yet, they populate, well beyond their % in the population, most of the top colleges in this country.

 

When education is a top priority in a given culture, it will become evident VERY easily.

 

In addition, I've heard firsthand from teachers, that one of the easiest ways to measure the success of a student is the involvement of parents. When you went on a "Back to School Night" at Severna Park High, I bet the classrooms were jam packed with parents. Believe me, I've heard from teachers at no-so-great schools about the parent's attendance of "Back to School Night." Seems to go hand in hand, not to imply a direct correlation.

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When education is a top priority in a given culture, it will become evident VERY easily.

 

In addition, I've heard firsthand from teachers, that one of the easiest ways to measure the success of a student is the involvement of parents. When you went on a "Back to School Night" at Severna Park High, I bet the classrooms were jam packed with parents. Believe me, I've heard from teachers at no-so-great schools about the parent's attendance of "Back to School Night." Seems to go hand in hand, not to imply a direct correlation.

 

 

 

IMO, it really is about the parental involvement. In private or good public schools, it might be less important that the parents stay actively involved...but it can't hurt, either.

 

Yes, they were always full at Sp's back to school night.

 

But to be honest, there's much more to be learned in meeting one-on-one with each of the teachers....than there is from these group settings. I typically let the dust settle a week or two after classes started, and then made an appointment with each of my kid's teachers. I felt that helped the teacher to put a (parental) face to my kids, and I learend more at those sessions. My wife and I have always gone out of our way to meet each of our son's teachers, individually. It requires more effort on the part of the parent, but I usually have my own set of questions I want to ask, and had more time to probe....

 

Involvement is key.

 

As they get older, it becomes a balancing act between involvment, and meddling, or being too involved. Believe it or not, once in a while I actually get calls from parents of my college students wanting to know this or that about my grading, or how their son is doing in my class, etc. Give it a rest, folks. At some point, they have to walk on their own two feet. Really!

 

The most involved parent that I've ever heard of, was one of our Sp parents (hockey dad), who's son went to Penn State. He majored in engineering (now graduated in engineering, and has a good job as an engineer)....and like most Freshmen engineering students, he got overwhelmed by the amount of material at the college level. He was not prepared for the amount of work that was demanded. According to his dad, he knew the material, but was not very good at balancing work with play. This is usually where most freshman fall flat on their faces...they get all this freedom to do whatever they want, but fail to budget enough time to study and do assignments, etc. Especially true in engineering and sciences. In any event, the dad spent two weeks living on the floor of his son's dorm room....at least that's what he told me. That is the most extreme involvement that I have ever heard. I'm sure it was VERY embarassing for the son, but hey, whatever it takes to get your son/daughter on the right track. It worked for them, and I applaud the dad, as I'm not sure I would have had the stones to live on the floor of my son's dorm room for 2 weeks. Luckily, I didn't have to. ;)

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For the most part, "motivation" comes from within, and from the family - not from the schools.

 

Ergo, that's one reason why Asian students often excel in school. They're not smarter than everyone else, it simply boils down to the expectations and milestones set down by their parents. For many (and I know many), failure is not a viable option. When I was at Cornell, we had many suicides. This is still a problem at Cornell. Sadly, Cornell is an easy place to commit suicide, because of all the gorges, etc. Coincidentally, a large percentage of the suicides were from Asian students who bore the "motivational" burden imparted to them by their parents. When they struggled at Cornell, some could not cope.

 

Motivation is NOT institutional.

 

While I can not speak to the AP curriculum at most private schools, I have seen what is offered at Sp. There is a huge range in the topics offered, as well as the degree (or level) of difficulty. I've seen the books and notes my kids were taking, while in math, physics, biology, chemistry, etc...and for the most part, even for me, the advanced levels offered a high degree of challenege to all but the most gifted. When my kids exceeded the degree to which they could handle, they both took courses at AACC...which, coincidentally, those credits were accepted when they went on to college. Private or public HS ...learning and being challenged need not stop at the HS building. My kids found AACC (while still at SP), to be a great local asset to them.

 

I disagree. Motivation is very much institutional, it is created by the expectations placed on the students by the school itself.

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I disagree. Motivation is very much institutional, it is created by the expectations placed on the students by the school itself.

 

 

 

Then we disagree. :D

 

Sorry, but there are several studies that clearly point to the family as the primary source of motivation - at least in families where this is important (ie such as in most Asian families). That said, I don't need any study to show me what i already know to be true.

 

I don't know if you have any kids, but if you do, then you probably appreciate the fact that most kids want to please their parents - above everything else. Not the teachers. Not their friends... but their parents. I think psychologists have a term for this? This desire to "please" their parents wanes as they get older, but it still remains a funadmental cornerstone of family's with strong parental guidance and involvment.

 

Most of the family's that i know, that are NOT actively involved with their kids education, say, because both parents are too busy with their careers to be actively involved (please NOTE - I did not say they didn't care), are almost always those who send their kids to private schools. Neighbor across the street is a perfect example of this. Both parents are high profile corporate execs...always travelling, etc. For this group, I always assumed that by sending their kids to a private school, the parents have assumed the schoool will then become the primary "motivator". You see this all the time in the NE prep boarding schools...where kids are shipped off, and the responsibilities of motivating, teaching, and providing moral guidance falls almost exclusively with the school, and NOT with the parents. In these types of situations, then of course, the institution itself is the primary source for guidance and motivation.

 

But that is NOT the case in family's where one, or both parents are actively engaged with their child's education. In these cases, parental motivation trumps anything that comes from the school. If I had to rank, on the "motivation" scale, it would look like this:

 

(1) Active parental involvement. This is a no brainer, and studies prove it.

(2) Peer pressure. Doesn't matter - pub or private - if your kid is surrounded by other kids who also want to do well and succeed, they can (also) have a strong influence. They will "push" each other. There are many kids that fall into this category within the AP and/ or IB.

(3) Institutional (from teachers/guidance counselors, head masters, etc)

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Slap, that's crazy about the father sleeping on his son's floor. But in all honesty, I'm sure the dad wanted to see a return on his investment of sending his kid to college.

 

I don't know if you have seen "Hard Times at Douglass High," the documentary on HBO about the school in Baltimore with it's struggles. On the Back to School night there, barely anyone showed up, I actually felt bad for the kids.

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Slap, that's crazy about the father sleeping on his son's floor. But in all honesty, I'm sure the dad wanted to see a return on his investment of sending his kid to college.

 

I don't know if you have seen "Hard Times at Douglass High," the documentary on HBO about the school in Baltimore with it's struggles. On the Back to School night there, barely anyone showed up, I actually felt bad for the kids.

 

One can only take care of one's own. To be honest, the numbers at back to school night was never any concern of mine. My focus was on meeting with the teachers...that's where the lines of communication are established.

 

This PSU dad was off the hook, but I applaud him for doing what needed to be done...no matter how difficult or embarassing it must have been for both of them.

 

No, I have not seen the show. But I will look for it. Inner City schools have their own set of issues, and I won't pretend to know, or fully understand what they are. I'm mainly talking about suburban school.

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as I see it after reading so many points of view. It seems someone on here had a bad experience in or with a private school.I could care less about ones problems but I do know in the majority of private schools they make it a point to get their students to go on to college, Many students get much of their tuition back from the aid or scholarships they receive in college. The bottom line is, when two students apply for work or even a college and they both have great hs credentials, the one who come from a private school is usually chosen.

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Back to the thread.

 

It seems that the Privates are still better then the Publics in lax. What is also true - the MIAA kids will get more attention from the brand name college then the publics, simply because of their "helmet color". I look at where some of the kids are going from the privates and then see where a comparable public school players is going and it seems the MIAA kid is getting more exposure.

 

Fact - there are more quality kids on the MIAA teams so its easier for a coach to watch BL and SP and see a number of quailty players. When you see kids who are 2nd or 3rd string going to top D1 schools you have to wonder. I know they could be showing better in summer club and that could be a difference maker.

 

And you dont know the circumstances. Until they get there and earn the PT its all talk.

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Take a look at Gburg, Noke, Lynchburg, Randolph-Macon, Dickinson, WAC and W&L. they are all d3 schools loaded with MIAA kids.

 

3rd stringers at MIAA schools who can start at these institutions.

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3rd stringers at MIAA schools who can start at these institutions.

 

And pay the 50k/ yr for the right to wear that jersey. Follow the money boys.

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as I look at many schools in D3 I see many kids from the MIAA playing, it seems these D3 schools are going after the guys who don't get all the press yet are very good.

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And pay the 50k/ yr for the right to wear that jersey. Follow the money boys.

 

Or not. Humorous conjecture on your part, given that many of the best MIAA players I have known also come from middle class families.

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And pay the 50k/ yr for the right to wear that jersey. Follow the money boys.

 

Before you make such broad statements do your research. Nobody in that range. Some privates in mid- upper 20s. Most parochial below 15.

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Before you make such broad statements do your research. Nobody in that range. Some privates in mid- upper 20s. Most parochial below 15.

 

 

I could be wrong, but I think Seal was referring to the cost of tuition + room + board at private colleges, not high schhols.

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I think many d3 players get financial aid if not room and board. I have seen players at Va Wes , Greensboro, Noke, Lynch who were on financial aid and many D2 teams have AA County players on them. A few years ago the school in SC was full of AA County kids and won Championships. SSU was also loaded with County and MiAA kids

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Or not. Humorous conjecture on your part, given that many of the best MIAA players I have known also come from middle class families.

 

I don't know if you've been through the financial aid dance lately, but what you think of as "middle class" is actually rich according to the FAFSA. A nice middle class income will generate a FAFSA number of 40K, meaning your kid doesn't qualify for federal subsidised loans till the bill exceeds 40k/yr. Say you want to go to Dickinson, where the total bill is probably around 50k. Being D3 they have no LAX money to give, but they will usually discount the tuition whether its called an academic merit scholarship, a leadership grant, or whatever. All students get these breaks, its a maketing thing, you don't need to play sports. Anyway, now the bill is around 40k/yr, and it just so happens that that is what the feds say you can afford.

 

So here we are, you are the head coach at Dickinson looking for LAX players who have the ability to pay $160,000 for a Dickinson degree. Would you be surprised if I told you that Dickinson's roster was full of MIAA bench warmers?

Here's the roster:

 

http://www.dickinson.edu/athletics/teams/men/lacrosse/Roster/

 

I hate to pick on Dickinson, but I'm sure the same is true of any number of private D3 Lax schools.

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I think many d3 players get financial aid if not room and board. I have seen players at Va Wes , Greensboro, Noke, Lynch who were on financial aid and many D2 teams have AA County players on them. A few years ago the school in SC was full of AA County kids and won Championships. SSU was also loaded with County and MiAA kids

 

 

My understanding from those kids that are, or did play coolege lax, and did get "financial aid", that the amount of $$ received was small, and nowehere near enough to cover much of the bill. Do to the number of full scholarships offered in lax, most end up being partial rides.

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