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Univ of Michigan adds lacrosse


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#1 ChippewaJoe

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Posted 25 May 2011 - 10:46 PM

http://www.freep.com...ews|text|Sports

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Posted 26 May 2011 - 02:02 PM

Given the financial state of things in Michigan, this is pretty amazing. Not that they added lax, but the timing of this addition.

Edited by slapshot, 26 May 2011 - 02:26 PM.


#3 KLynch

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Posted 26 May 2011 - 06:36 PM

Lacrosse will be up 2 next year with the addition of Marquette, High Point and Michigan but the lost of Presbyterian. Hopefully they can sustain and grow further.
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Posted 26 May 2011 - 06:41 PM

Lacrosse will be up 2 next year with the addition of Marquette, High Point and Michigan but the lost of Presbyterian. Hopefully they can sustain and grow further.


To put in perspective - PSU just established hockey with a $88million donation. In contrast, and so I've been told, one can establish a lax program for just around $2mil. No idea what the sustaining numbers look like?

Hmmmm...lax looks like a bargain.;)

#5 tampafan76

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Posted 26 May 2011 - 09:30 PM

To put in perspective - PSU just established hockey with a $88million donation. In contrast, and so I've been told, one can establish a lax program for just around $2mil. No idea what the sustaining numbers look like?

Hmmmm...lax looks like a bargain.;)


Would not be surprised to see some colleges down here add it very soon. The game is becoming very popular in Florida, with all kinds of youth leagues, starting at about 6-7 years old, and numerous high schools having club teams, but not sanctioned by FHSAA yet.

My 14 year old daughter just started playing the game. It is fun to watch.

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Posted 27 May 2011 - 09:10 AM

Another article...from a business perspective: http://www.bloomberg...10-million.html

#7 KLynch

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Posted 27 May 2011 - 11:46 AM

I think you've brought it up before Slap. Do any Lacrosse programs make a profit, I thought I heard once there were three. Seems like Hopkins and Syracuse have pretty serious Nike Deals, not sure if it makes them much though?
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#8 KLynch

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Posted 27 May 2011 - 11:50 AM

If Michigan hires a new Lacrosse Coach, it will be one of the biggest back stabbings ever. John Paul has done everything to get them there including tons of fundraising. He's had job opportunities but stayed because he wanted to get them d1 and help the sport in the state.
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Posted 27 May 2011 - 12:46 PM

I think you've brought it up before Slap. Do any Lacrosse programs make a profit, I thought I heard once there were three. Seems like Hopkins and Syracuse have pretty serious Nike Deals, not sure if it makes them much though?


A few years ago, the NCAA did a study of all D1 men's sports. Almost universally, the only sports that made money (ie, revenue-expenses) were: Football, basketball, baseball and hockey. Coincidentally, the four major professional sports franchises.

I suspect there are less than a handful of lax programs that have positive cash flow....Hopkins, perhaps, being one of them?

But here's how the regular season attendance figures shape up for the TOP attending men's programs:

2009 NCAA Men's Lacrosse
Average Home Attendance Leaders


1. Syracuse 5,832
2. Ohio State 5,762
3. Navy 5,263
4. Johns Hopkins 3,036
5. Massachusetts 2,930
6. Virginia 2,712
7. Hofstra 2,455
8. Cornell 2,317
9. Towson 2,187
10. Loyola 2,084
11. North Carolina 1,769
12. Maryland 1,653
13. Princeton 1,599
14. Stony Brook 1,554
15. Duke 1,527
16. Georgetown 1,517
17. UMBC 1,333
18. Harvard 1,27
119. Brown 1,038
20. Rutgers 1,034


With the exception of the top few, those numbers aren't much better than a woman's basketball game. I have it on good authority that the bare-bones annual cost to field a D1 lacrosse program is about $2mil (that's for both woman and men's). Using Md as an example, they have 8 home games, with average home attendance of 1,653 (for men...woman's games are much less). Total home attendance is about ~ 13,224. The average ticket price for an adult is $8 (kids are much less, etc). So, total revenue from tickets is going to MAX out at no more than about $100K. I suspect the woman's program max's out at a tiny fraction of that. Now, additional reveue from tournaments and consessions, advertising, etc will add to this number...but, it seems pretty clear that it's hard to even break even with only a few thousand folks attending regular season games. Without bigtime corporate sponsorship, there's no chance to break even.

Not exactly sure why more folks don't go to college lax games at many schools? Maybe it simply has to do with the time of the year? Many fans/students are still involved with March Madness...and by the time that ends, students interests turn to other things in the Spring....besides watching a lacrosse game? Maybe a month left in the lax season after BB ends, exams/finals begin and school is out...? Could be simply timing? I know college baseball (excpt for the playoffs) doesn't get big tunrouts, either.

On a personal note - I don't follow college lax very closely simply because I viewed, and still do, it to be a niche sport. Pretty much the same group of mid-atlantic/east coast schools every year...yawn. Maybe that's why college basketball is so interesting...you just never know where the next Butler will come from.

Edited by slapshot, 27 May 2011 - 12:59 PM.


#10 KLynch

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Posted 27 May 2011 - 01:20 PM

Wonder if they make any money from the ESPN contract or Final Four appearances? Bad weather has really been rocking Lax attendances. Serious rain this year during Navy/MD, MD/Hopkins too of the biggest drawing games annually.

I also wonder if the Big 10 network deal, and the Pac 10 TV deal will lead to funds for more lax teams?

This may sound biased, but that's okay. I really think if Towson can get back to being a perennial top 10 team, they can get up their towards to the top of attendance averages. Great Lacrosse Town, huge school with not a lot to athletically to be proud of, and always a good schedule filled with the Hopkins, MD, Navy, Loyola, UMBC, UVA and more.
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Posted 27 May 2011 - 01:36 PM

Wonder if they make any money from the ESPN contract or Final Four appearances? Bad weather has really been rocking Lax attendances. Serious rain this year during Navy/MD, MD/Hopkins too of the biggest drawing games annually.

I also wonder if the Big 10 network deal, and the Pac 10 TV deal will lead to funds for more lax teams?

This may sound biased, but that's okay. I really think if Towson can get back to being a perennial top 10 team, they can get up their towards to the top of attendance averages. Great Lacrosse Town, huge school with not a lot to athletically to be proud of, and always a good schedule filled with the Hopkins, MD, Navy, Loyola, UMBC, UVA and more.



I'm sure the schools in the tourney do get some of the ESPN money.

The BTN money gets shared equally among all BT teams - all 12. What each member school does with their BTN money is up to the AD. I suspect the majority goes back to fund facilities, etc for the revenue generating sports. After all, football and basketball, at most colleges, pay for all the other sports. If football and basketball loose their competitive edge, and start to loose revenue, well, that's when athletic departments get into trouble and have to rely on the pockets of their donors, or corporate sponsors to bail them out. Md is having some issues right now, as revenue from football has fallen way off. Eventually, if those financial woes are not corrected/plugged-up, then that's when school's shut down programs.

Michigan can do what they do because of their corporate sponsorship....but also, Michigan football draws more than 108,000 people to every home game - whether they stink, or rain or shine. That program generates an obscene amount of money.

#12 Zack80

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Posted 27 May 2011 - 01:41 PM

Not so fast there Slapshot, concerning Maryland:
In 2009, Byrd stadium was being worked on - and UMd shipped its best game, Hopkins, up to the Face-off classic - and played their other home games at Ludwig. So not very good data there (add in a down year for UMd too.)

This spring, Maryland's average home attendance was 3148 in 8 games.
(Better weather for Hopkins might have improved that game's attendance some.)
Lacrosse is on TV these days also, Maryland had a number of ESPNU games and was on WMAR a couple times - which probably brings in some dough.

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Posted 27 May 2011 - 02:13 PM

Not so fast there Slapshot, concerning Maryland:
In 2009, Byrd stadium was being worked on - and UMd shipped its best game, Hopkins, up to the Face-off classic - and played their other home games at Ludwig. So not very good data there (add in a down year for UMd too.)

This spring, Maryland's average home attendance was 3148 in 8 games.
(Better weather for Hopkins might have improved that game's attendance some.)
Lacrosse is on TV these days also, Maryland had a number of ESPNU games and was on WMAR a couple times - which probably brings in some dough.



Whether 3,000 or 1,000...it hardly makes a dent. So my point still remains - home attendance figures do little to make lax profitable. Add into that all the "free" promotional tickets...many lax programs simply don't generate much revenue from ticket sales.

As far as the rennovations to Byrd...no idea about moving games...although with that said, why? The rennovations made in 2008/2009 were primarily confined to the sky/press box area, and added a new LED video board on the west end. Plenty of avaialble seating at byrd. So no idea why they would shift the games to another location?

Bottom line - show me any article that claims the lacrosse program at Md is profitable? In fact, any lax program? I'd like to know (myself) which programs are profitable.

Edited by slapshot, 27 May 2011 - 02:33 PM.


#14 tampafan76

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Posted 27 May 2011 - 03:18 PM

Bottom line - show any program that generates profit $ for just about any Div 1 program outside of football and hoops. Those programs finance just about the complete athletic programs for nearly all schools.

You have that right, SS.

LET'S GO LIGHTNING!

#15 KLynch

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Posted 27 May 2011 - 03:51 PM

The Article states that big time schools like Michigan and Penn State will have funding that many programs won't, which is true, but the true advantage in many non-revenue sports is in-state tuition.

I don't believe MD Lacrosse is fully funded when it comes to Scholarships, but they don't have to be. Tuition and fees in state to MD is about 19K a year. The full deal at Hopkins is 57k per year. So Hopkins can give 50% financial aid and still be a lot more expensive. Out of state at MD is about 35k, so their tuition is much cheaper than Hopkins, so that can swing either way based on Aid between what you pay, but Hopkins always has to help you out to get even close to MD's Fees.

If someone gets in state tuition and a scholarship or aid, it's really a bargain. Pennsylvania has very good lacrosse, so Penn State has a big advantage, and we'll see how much Michigan can benefit from local kids. But Maryland, UMBC, Towson, and Salisbury at the D3 level have some serious financial advantages when it comes to what a kids pays to go there as an athlete.
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Posted 27 May 2011 - 04:56 PM

The Article states that big time schools like Michigan and Penn State will have funding that many programs won't, which is true, but the true advantage in many non-revenue sports is in-state tuition.

I don't believe MD Lacrosse is fully funded when it comes to Scholarships, but they don't have to be. Tuition and fees in state to MD is about 19K a year. The full deal at Hopkins is 57k per year. So Hopkins can give 50% financial aid and still be a lot more expensive. Out of state at MD is about 35k, so their tuition is much cheaper than Hopkins, so that can swing either way based on Aid between what you pay, but Hopkins always has to help you out to get even close to MD's Fees.

If someone gets in state tuition and a scholarship or aid, it's really a bargain. Pennsylvania has very good lacrosse, so Penn State has a big advantage, and we'll see how much Michigan can benefit from local kids. But Maryland, UMBC, Towson, and Salisbury at the D3 level have some serious financial advantages when it comes to what a kids pays to go there as an athlete.


By NCAA rules, I believe that lax gets the equivalent of 12.5 full scholarships. Most programs that I am aware of divide that up, so a typical player might only get a 1/4 to 1/2 of a full scholarship.

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Posted 27 May 2011 - 05:06 PM

Bottom line - show any program that generates profit $ for just about any Div 1 program outside of football and hoops. Those programs finance just about the complete athletic programs for nearly all schools.

You have that right, SS.

LET'S GO LIGHTNING!


OK. Financials for D1 hockey from 2007. Only data I could find. All the way to the right is the profit/deficit. Deficit shown in ( ). Most are profitable, or break even ie, $0....for men's program. I think with the exception of a few woman's basketball programs, all woman's programs lose money...so hockey is no different in that regard. But as per the NCAA report I read a few years back, only football, basketball, hockey and baseball - for the most part - showed profits for men's D1 programs.

https://spreadsheets...tTUSpdM2lWCeTdQ


GO BRUINS!!

#18 tampafan76

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Posted 27 May 2011 - 05:16 PM

By NCAA rules, I believe that lax gets the equivalent of 12.5 full scholarships. Most programs that I am aware of divide that up, so a typical player might only get a 1/4 to 1/2 of a full scholarship.


Unless, of course! - they are the offspring of illegal immigrats/minority parents....errrrr....

That would make them NOT the typical player, therefore needing, and demanding, more of the "scholarship" breakdown.

It is what it is.....excepting Duke players?:rolleyes:

Do not intend to ber "negative Ned" here, but things are as they appear to be...

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Posted 27 May 2011 - 06:18 PM

Hey Tampa, win/lose...ya gotta admit this series was outstanding.:D

That said, Go BRUINS!:cool:



#20 tampafan76

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Posted 27 May 2011 - 06:28 PM

Hey Tampa, win/lose...ya gotta admit this series was outstanding.:D

That said, Go BRUINS!:cool:


Yeah, buddy. Just hope your Timmy-boy Thomas follows his personal traditioin and continues to give up 5 goals per.:)

He is the player that has kept Boston in the series at all.