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canis

Spiritual and Religious - same or diff.?

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You know, the funny thing is that there's no solid definition for what 'being spiritual' actually means.  If you search the word, you'll see all kinds of definitions out there.  It's not like when you think you might have a fever and you stick a thermometer in your mouth and you can check your temperature.  It's a mental thing that people have an intuition about.  They know if they are spiritual or not, and that can include anything from the person that prays to God, to someone that does meditation, to someone else who likes to take long walks and reflect on the meaning of things, to whatever.  If you get in that zone, you know it. 

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...they go out at night and look at the sky and their surroundings and get a deep sense of awe from it all and begin to wonder about their own existence and their place in the universe (without any reference to a deity)?  Would you consider that being spiritual?

No. I wonder whether what we often call "spiritual" is just plain vivid imagination.

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No. I wonder whether what we often call "spiritual" is just plain vivid imagination.

From your posts, it seems like your definition would be in line with the traditional one where spiritual is connected to religious. Both based on belief in the supernatural.  Do I read you right?

 

In that case, I would agree that the imagination plays a role in creating images and situations.

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There are "religious" demons and spiritual atheists.  Religion need not be involved to be spiritual...and vice versa...or one can be both religious AND spiritual.

 

There is no single answer to the question.

 

But someone here said it farly eloquently....Spirituality is being in the present...I think that sums it up pretty well.

 

I tend to think of myself as a little of both. A "salad bar" Catholic with some Buddhist philosophical stuff running through and around the judeo-christian upbringing...

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From your posts, it seems like your definition would be in line with the traditional one where spiritual is connected to religious. Both based on belief in the supernatural.  Do I read you right?

 

In that case, I would agree that the imagination plays a role in creating images and situations.

 

 

I think a vivid imagination helps us to connect the dots between what we experience and what we hope to find in our spiritual life.  And I think that is a good thing.

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There are "religious" demons and spiritual atheists.  Religion need not be involved to be spiritual...and vice versa...or one can be both religious AND spiritual.

 

There is no single answer to the question.

 

But someone here said it farly eloquently....Spirituality is being in the present...I think that sums it up pretty well.

 

I tend to think of myself as a little of both. A "salad bar" Catholic with some Buddhist philosophical stuff running through and around the judeo-christian upbringing...

 

I agree with you that there's no single answer.  Here's a write-up on how it's changed over time.  

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spirituality#Classical.2C_medieval_and_early_modern_periods

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I agree with you that there's no single answer.  Here's a write-up on how it's changed over time.  

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spirituality#Classical.2C_medieval_and_early_modern_periods

 

 From your link:  

Social scientists have defined spirituality as the search for the sacred, for that which is set apart from the ordinary and worthy of veneration, "a transcendent dimension within human experience...discovered in moments in which the individual questions the meaning of personal existence and attempts to place the self within a broader ontological context."

 

 

This is a fairly good way of describing what I had in mind.    It is a broad definition that leaves it to the reader to consider their own heart whether they are an adherent to the perspective of religion AND sprituality vs that of religion OR spirituality. 

Edited by Easton Raven

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One of my favorite sayings is..... 'Life is a mystery to be lived, not a problem to be solved.'  

 

We tackle our problems and we think we are capable of finding solutions to everything.  But on the large scale of existence, what we touch upon is very small.  And most of life will always remain unknowable and a great mystery.

 

There is plenty to wonder about even without resorting to ideology, doctrine or superstition.  I think the modern definition of spirituality is very accommodating in that respect. 

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Social scientists have defined spirituality as the search for the sacred, ... consider their own heart whether they are an adherent to the perspective of religion AND sprituality vs that of religion OR spirituality. 

Ronald Laing, who gets a bad rap these days as an anti-psychiatrist (no) & lecherous old coot (yes), wrote  in his The Politics of Experience that ancient rituals of 1K, 2K yr ago have disappeared & that nothing's taken their place. The popular religious service in a church or synagogue's light years' distant from the old days of burnt offerings & sacrifices. Our current obsession w/ sep. of church & state takes not into account the colonial days when one had to be a member in good standing w/ a church or congregation to partake in the secular activities of the community, like lawsuits & its organized militia (which also required ownership of a firearm).

 

Even if you "stand in awe" of the stars & "the heavens," your spirituality's tempered by knowing of astronomers' & physicists' accounts of them, whereas in olden days, B4 Shakespeare, the fault really could be found in stars.

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Lots of talk about spiritual this and that but have you really ever read the Old Testament? The meaning of these verses is spread out and hard to see unless you put the pieces together and then walla, the light comes on and you really see for the first time. I have compiled these verses into one cohesive, understandable string of verses that will blow you away. Give it a try, just read it and then it will be done and you will have learned something you had never before considered. Just visit

 

www.universalknowledge.net

 

Then post your comments here but if words written over 3,000 years ago frighten you then pass on bye

 

(:- 

Edited by tooldtocare

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Couldn't "Cosmic Awareness" in the way of awareness of the size and composition of the Universe and the realization that we aren't even as big as a hair on the proverbial gnats' butt be considered "Spiritual" in a way? When I look up in the sky at night and see the Moon, if there happens to be Jupiter or Saturn or Mars shining nearby and can still see Venus on the horizon, I visualize where I am on this little ball and imagine these great arcs along which the other bodies are moving. I can almost see the orbital paths across the sky just as they are drawn in books. I feel kind of "Spiritual" at those times.

 

I've watched both Solar and Lunar eclipses. I remember when Hale-Bopp was visible in the sky back in '97. I still get a kick out of just seeing Orion's Belt. I've seen Saturn's Rings with my own puny little scope. I see all this stuff and just have a hard time with any kind of a God that may have Intentionally "made" all these things and would have even the slightest interest in Us. I think people just don't look Up enough. You oughta try it some time. It changes you a little.

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Some things to think about...

 

Do you consider yourself religious?

 

Do you consider yourself spiritual?

 

Do the two overlap?

 

Is there a difference between how you perceive the two?

To me they are different. However, they can (rarely) overlap.

 

Religión involves rules specified by middlemen. You should give this much, show up to this event or that, say this, wear this, bla bla bla. It's about appearances & human control.

 

Spirituality involves your personal relationship to some entity and the manner in which you go about living your life on your own.

 

In one you rely on the middlemen while the other allows you to realize those middlemen are actually in your way.

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To me they are different. However, they can (rarely) overlap.

 

Religión involves rules specified by middlemen. You should give this much, show up to this event or that, say this, wear this, bla bla bla. It's about appearances & human control.

 

Spirituality involves your personal relationship to some entity and the manner in which you go about living your life on your own.

 

In one you rely on the middlemen while the other allows you to realize those middlemen are actually in your way.

That's a good explanation and to a large degree represents my thoughts. I haven't been inside of house of worship in too many years to remember. However, I do try to quietly go about being aware of situations/people around me and making a difference, however small, when I can.

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Being "spiritual" means trying to be religious without reading the book or instructions. It's an excuse to not put in an effort to find God and to collect crystals. It focuses on the here and now and not the here ~ now ~and later or a real concept of salvation.

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From your posts, it seems like your definition would be in line with the traditional one where spiritual is connected to religious ...

I s'pose: what is "spiritual," if not a belief or desire for "something" beyond or exclusive of the physical. If it is not, then I'm clueless about what's spiritual.

 

I went thru that alt-fashionable hokum of "I'm-not-religious-but-I'm-spiritual" routine in college; or @least I told people that. I'm sure I didn't know what I was talking about. I still basically believed all the Sunday school stuff: Jesus's crucifixion & resurrection; but I never really understood salvation.

 

It seemed to me all those "world's great religions" were founded on or celebrate a few events that dismissed the circumstances under which they occurred (& usually, that means war: the Gita--Krishna, Arjuna the soldier; the Bible--David, Philistines, Goliath).

 

Now I seldom think of "spiritual," except when I see something like this on blogs or forums. We like to say the devil is in the details, but as far as I can tell, so's everything else, including whatever we call spiritual. (Pirsig wrote in his ZAMM that the Buddha resided as comfortably in the gears of a motorcycle as in a lotus flower.)

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Religion is knowing about God (or trying to). Spirituality is knowing God (or trying to).

 

I am a Bible believing Christian myself, but I happen to believe there are other paths to God, I just have not found them as direct. I am very active in my church, and I do think that is important as to me it is an essential way to Christian living, but I am not down with religion for religion sake - the rules, the judgementalism, the empty traditions. I believe in the Bible and find truth there, but I am no fundamentalist who takes every word literally and tries to force my interpretation on others.

 

I believe God is love and that spirituality is love, love in the sense of unity, understanding, compassion. Galatians 5: 22-23 says, "... the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control."

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I think those guys in ISIS would disagree with everyone here.

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I believe in the Bible and find truth there

Me too: but the "truth" I find is that God had an awful time keeping His charges in line after choosing them & that by the end of the O.T. he's pretty much given up on them. By the N.T. He's departed & except for the "well-pleased" comment is in the main absent & has sent a surrogate to relieve His "Palestiners" from the misery of Roman occupation.

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"Couldn't "Cosmic Awareness" in the way of awareness of the size and composition of the Universe and.,.,.,..these things and would have even the slightest interest in Us"

 

In less than two (2) hundred years (200) we will have colonies on Mars or at least the moon. Give us a Billion (1,000,000,000) from now and try to guess where we will be by then-? Surly when we pass a lifeless planet that could support life, we will leave our sent behind.

 

There are Stars much older than ours with habitable planets revolving around them. You can actually see some in the Hubble Telescope. Google them, Wow what sights

 

& It is quite possible that we have been visited and/or we are being visited by one from one of those planet's right now either probe or in persons.

 

Who knows?

 

(:-

Edited by tooldtocare

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Member posted:

 

"You know, the funny thing is that there's no solid definition for what 'being spiritual' actually means.  If you search the word, you'll see all kinds of definitions out there.  It's not like when you think you might have a fever and you stick a thermometer in your mouth and you can check your temperature.  It's a mental thing that people have an intuition about..,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,."

 

I just wanted to re-post some of you words, hope you don't mind

 

As a bystander, Thank You for that post (:-

Edited by tooldtocare

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I think those guys in ISIS would disagree with everyone here.

 

It is my understanding that the one beheaded had a "Israel" and a USA passport. Other members of ISIS have "Israel" passports. 

 

To your knowledge, do you believe this to be true-?

 

Just asking

 

Answer not required (:-

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