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Spiritual and Religious - same or diff.?


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#21 zenwalk

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 07:22 PM

Thanks for the link. I'm still reading. I can relate to this stuff pretty well.

Golas is dead now. He was an interesting guy. He was a physicist so any truths about the universe had to pass that filter. The book is more accurately a thoughtful LSD experience as his truths came to him under the influence. He was at loggerheads with the New Age movement because he was repelled at what he saw as a nirvana for sale industry. His point is that no creed or holy book is necessary to experience an epiphany which runs counter to the New Age movement's penchant for fads and marketable "systems." The book has stood the test of time and is remarkably brief. The forward and first chapter covers most everything.
"A screaming comes across the sky. . ." -- Thomas Pynchon

#22 Hexexis

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Posted 16 December 2013 - 10:21 AM

Spiritual is the firm belief that something (literally) outside your ken can control events; always or only occasionally. Being religious is the organization of belief: naming the something or a deity, laws & regs.

 

Example: as described in Genesis, a tribe of people were spiritual & worshiped a single god or deity, unlike brethren elsewhere. God came by & organized their spiritually into a religion: I AM your single God; here are some commandments & laws which you should keep for your worship & obedience. Some time later, they even acquired a name; by then, tho, they were already sliding off the single God issue, which caused that single God great consternation.


"...anyone who can offend almost anybody is [a] brilliant and original thinker."--S.I. Hayakawa

#23 canis

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 11:50 AM

Spiritual is the firm belief that something (literally) outside your ken can control events; always or only occasionally. Being religious is the organization of belief: naming the something or a deity, laws & regs.

 

Example: as described in Genesis, a tribe of people were spiritual & worshiped a single god or deity, unlike brethren elsewhere. God came by & organized their spiritually into a religion: I AM your single God; here are some commandments & laws which you should keep for your worship & obedience. Some time later, they even acquired a name; by then, tho, they were already sliding off the single God issue, which caused that single God great consternation.

 

Was God an accountant..... keeping track of each and every single one of them?



#24 Hexexis

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 08:15 AM

Was God an accountant..... keeping track of each and every single one of them?

Not an accountant, but He did demand a census; to see how many were eligible to go off to war. But, as we know from most "management" personnel, He did play favorites: Aaron's admonished for fashioning the Golden Calf, but he still gets to be Padre Uno.


"...anyone who can offend almost anybody is [a] brilliant and original thinker."--S.I. Hayakawa

#25 canis

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Posted 26 January 2014 - 09:26 PM

Spiritual is the firm belief that something (literally) outside your ken can control events; always or only occasionally. Being religious is the organization of belief: naming the something or a deity, laws & regs.

 

Example: as described in Genesis, a tribe of people were spiritual & worshiped a single god or deity, unlike brethren elsewhere. God came by & organized their spiritually into a religion: I AM your single God; here are some commandments & laws which you should keep for your worship & obedience. Some time later, they even acquired a name; by then, tho, they were already sliding off the single God issue, which caused that single God great consternation.

Hex, what about people that do not have a firm belief that something out there controls events in life, that do not believe in a deity? Do you think that they can be spiritual?  Let's say they go out at night and look at the sky and their surroundings and get a deep sense of awe from it all and begin to wonder about their own existence and their place in the universe (without any reference to a deity)?  Would you consider that being spiritual?



#26 canis

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Posted 27 January 2014 - 09:01 AM

You know, the funny thing is that there's no solid definition for what 'being spiritual' actually means.  If you search the word, you'll see all kinds of definitions out there.  It's not like when you think you might have a fever and you stick a thermometer in your mouth and you can check your temperature.  It's a mental thing that people have an intuition about.  They know if they are spiritual or not, and that can include anything from the person that prays to God, to someone that does meditation, to someone else who likes to take long walks and reflect on the meaning of things, to whatever.  If you get in that zone, you know it. 



#27 Hexexis

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 07:21 AM

...they go out at night and look at the sky and their surroundings and get a deep sense of awe from it all and begin to wonder about their own existence and their place in the universe (without any reference to a deity)?  Would you consider that being spiritual?

No. I wonder whether what we often call "spiritual" is just plain vivid imagination.


"...anyone who can offend almost anybody is [a] brilliant and original thinker."--S.I. Hayakawa

#28 canis

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Posted 14 February 2014 - 09:39 AM

No. I wonder whether what we often call "spiritual" is just plain vivid imagination.

From your posts, it seems like your definition would be in line with the traditional one where spiritual is connected to religious. Both based on belief in the supernatural.  Do I read you right?

 

In that case, I would agree that the imagination plays a role in creating images and situations.



#29 Easton Raven

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Posted 23 February 2014 - 10:47 PM

There are "religious" demons and spiritual atheists.  Religion need not be involved to be spiritual...and vice versa...or one can be both religious AND spiritual.

 

There is no single answer to the question.

 

But someone here said it farly eloquently....Spirituality is being in the present...I think that sums it up pretty well.

 

I tend to think of myself as a little of both. A "salad bar" Catholic with some Buddhist philosophical stuff running through and around the judeo-christian upbringing...



#30 Easton Raven

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Posted 23 February 2014 - 10:49 PM

From your posts, it seems like your definition would be in line with the traditional one where spiritual is connected to religious. Both based on belief in the supernatural.  Do I read you right?

 

In that case, I would agree that the imagination plays a role in creating images and situations.

 

 

I think a vivid imagination helps us to connect the dots between what we experience and what we hope to find in our spiritual life.  And I think that is a good thing.



#31 canis

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Posted 25 February 2014 - 11:50 AM

There are "religious" demons and spiritual atheists.  Religion need not be involved to be spiritual...and vice versa...or one can be both religious AND spiritual.

 

There is no single answer to the question.

 

But someone here said it farly eloquently....Spirituality is being in the present...I think that sums it up pretty well.

 

I tend to think of myself as a little of both. A "salad bar" Catholic with some Buddhist philosophical stuff running through and around the judeo-christian upbringing...

 

I agree with you that there's no single answer.  Here's a write-up on how it's changed over time.  

 

 

http://en.wikipedia...._modern_periods



#32 Easton Raven

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Posted 27 February 2014 - 08:42 PM

I agree with you that there's no single answer.  Here's a write-up on how it's changed over time.  

 

 

http://en.wikipedia...._modern_periods

 

 From your link:  

Social scientists have defined spirituality as the search for the sacred, for that which is set apart from the ordinary and worthy of veneration, "a transcendent dimension within human experience...discovered in moments in which the individual questions the meaning of personal existence and attempts to place the self within a broader ontological context."

 

 

This is a fairly good way of describing what I had in mind.    It is a broad definition that leaves it to the reader to consider their own heart whether they are an adherent to the perspective of religion AND sprituality vs that of religion OR spirituality. 


Edited by Easton Raven, 27 February 2014 - 08:43 PM.


#33 canis

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 10:25 AM

One of my favorite sayings is..... 'Life is a mystery to be lived, not a problem to be solved.'  

 

We tackle our problems and we think we are capable of finding solutions to everything.  But on the large scale of existence, what we touch upon is very small.  And most of life will always remain unknowable and a great mystery.

 

There is plenty to wonder about even without resorting to ideology, doctrine or superstition.  I think the modern definition of spirituality is very accommodating in that respect. 



#34 Hexexis

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Posted 11 June 2014 - 07:05 AM

 

Social scientists have defined spirituality as the search for the sacred, ... consider their own heart whether they are an adherent to the perspective of religion AND sprituality vs that of religion OR spirituality. 

Ronald Laing, who gets a bad rap these days as an anti-psychiatrist (no) & lecherous old coot (yes), wrote  in his The Politics of Experience that ancient rituals of 1K, 2K yr ago have disappeared & that nothing's taken their place. The popular religious service in a church or synagogue's light years' distant from the old days of burnt offerings & sacrifices. Our current obsession w/ sep. of church & state takes not into account the colonial days when one had to be a member in good standing w/ a church or congregation to partake in the secular activities of the community, like lawsuits & its organized militia (which also required ownership of a firearm).

 

Even if you "stand in awe" of the stars & "the heavens," your spirituality's tempered by knowing of astronomers' & physicists' accounts of them, whereas in olden days, B4 Shakespeare, the fault really could be found in stars.


"...anyone who can offend almost anybody is [a] brilliant and original thinker."--S.I. Hayakawa

#35 tooldtocare

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Posted 17 June 2014 - 07:19 PM

Lots of talk about spiritual this and that but have you really ever read the Old Testament? The meaning of these verses is spread out and hard to see unless you put the pieces together and then walla, the light comes on and you really see for the first time. I have compiled these verses into one cohesive, understandable string of verses that will blow you away. Give it a try, just read it and then it will be done and you will have learned something you hand never before considered. Just visit

 

www.universalknowledge.net

 

Then post your comments here but if words written over 3,000 years ago frighten you then pass on bye

 

(:- 


Edited by tooldtocare, 17 June 2014 - 07:30 PM.


#36 Bartman

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Posted 20 June 2014 - 06:07 PM

Couldn't "Cosmic Awareness" in the way of awareness of the size and composition of the Universe and the realization that we aren't even as big as a hair on the proverbial gnats' butt be considered "Spiritual" in a way? When I look up in the sky at night and see the Moon, if there happens to be Jupiter or Saturn or Mars shining nearby and can still see Venus on the horizon, I visualize where I am on this little ball and imagine these great arcs along which the other bodies are moving. I can almost see the orbital paths across the sky just as they are drawn in books. I feel kind of "Spiritual" at those times.

 

I've watched both Solar and Lunar eclipses. I remember when Hale-Bopp was visible in the sky back in '97. I still get a kick out of just seeing Orion's Belt. I've seen Saturn's Rings with my own puny little scope. I see all this stuff and just have a hard time with any kind of a God that may have Intentionally "made" all these things and would have even the slightest interest in Us. I think people just don't look Up enough. You oughta try it some time. It changes you a little.


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Don't try to tell me that what I see with my own two eyes ISN'T what I'm seeing with my own two eyes!

#37 LadyHollman

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Posted 12 July 2014 - 03:32 AM

Some things to think about...

Do you consider yourself religious?

Do you consider yourself spiritual?

Do the two overlap?

Is there a difference between how you perceive the two?


To me they are different. However, they can (rarely) overlap.

ReligiĆ³n involves rules specified by middlemen. You should give this much, show up to this event or that, say this, wear this, bla bla bla. It's about appearances & human control.

Spirituality involves your personal relationship to some entity and the manner in which you go about living your life on your own.

In one you rely on the middlemen while the other allows you to realize those middlemen are actually in your way.

There are honest mistakes - but never honest lies.


I cannot be held responsible for any comment made that has been PWI.

#38 Sprightly

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 07:55 AM

To me they are different. However, they can (rarely) overlap.

ReligiĆ³n involves rules specified by middlemen. You should give this much, show up to this event or that, say this, wear this, bla bla bla. It's about appearances & human control.

Spirituality involves your personal relationship to some entity and the manner in which you go about living your life on your own.

In one you rely on the middlemen while the other allows you to realize those middlemen are actually in your way.


That's a good explanation and to a large degree represents my thoughts. I haven't been inside of house of worship in too many years to remember. However, I do try to quietly go about being aware of situations/people around me and making a difference, however small, when I can.
To forgive is to set a prisoner free and discover the prisoner was you.

#39 octoburn

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 10:28 AM

Being "spiritual" means trying to be religious without reading the book or instructions. It's an excuse to not put in an effort to find God and to collect crystals. It focuses on the here and now and not the here ~ now ~and later or a real concept of salvation.




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