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Roster Shakeup, when?


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#1 weenie

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 08:02 AM

With the O's sitting in first place after ten games, what moves are warranted to maintain momentum? How long do Gregg, Chavez and Johnson have until each gets swapped out (if they continue their current production or lack thereof)? And, who at Norfolk might step in to replace them?

I for one think Chavez needs to take a seat and allow Reimold to play everyday from now on. Same goes for Davis relative to Johnson. Betemit and Flaherty both can play the corner infield spots and I'd like to see Flaherty get more opportunities (at Johnson's expense).

The pitching corp at Norfolk has relievers (Phillips, Neshek) who could replace Gregg at little relative cost. Matusz could use an entire season at Norfolk to work on a few things while someone like Berken, Wada, Eveland or even Tillman fills the 5th spot in the rotation. Jai Miller could step in to provide a better bat then Chavez and almost as good a glove.

Ironically, the only guy who it seems to me has no easily identifiable substitute is Johnson. If you buy into his backup first baseman role, there just aren't any guys at Norfolk who are viable. Maybe Townsend or Waring from AA if they continue to hit but it's way too early for either guy.

IMO bottomline is the only guy in 2012 who shows signs of warranting a swap out where there is no alternative would be Johnson. At this point he's the last guy/25th man anyway.

In essence, I think the situation after the first ten games is as good as it has been in any season of the 21st century. We all had a hard time getting excited about signees like Eveland but they have provided depth which McPhail seemed to ignore in favor of youth at all cost.

Do any of the Duquette haters grasp any of this? After only four months on the job, in my book he's done remarkably well.

#2 weird-O

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 08:08 AM

I don't follow the minor leagues, but any questionable player on the current roster needs a little more time to show they deserve or don't deserve to be here. I would wait until the end of May to make plans for the rest of the season. the only exception to that philosophy would be if someone just completely tanks for 8 weeks. Gregg isn't any good, and he probably won't improve. but it takes more than 2 weeks to determine that. the same goes for Johnson. as convinced as I am that he's a wash out, I wouldn't make a move unless someone in the bushes is showing signs that they obviously need to be moved up.
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#3 bmore_ken

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 08:11 AM

I have to agree. 2 weeks is an extremely small sample size to determine the future needs of your team
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#4 weenie

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 08:18 AM

I have to agree. 2 weeks is an extremely small sample size to determine the future needs of your team


Though I mostly concur, how long did it take to realize Rich Hill, Garrett Atkins or Adam Eaton was an epic fail? To me, Chavez and Matusz might warrant more time but both Gregg and Johnson have no future in Baltimore. Clearing them away and giving Phillips and Miller their spots gives the O's a few more practical if perhaps minor enhancements/alternatives. If Miller produces, then Chavez is more easily jettisoned if/when his 8 week trial fails to pan out. He too is only on a one year deal.

#5 weird-O

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 08:35 AM

if there are players waiting in the minors to take over, that's great. but it's not usually preferred to bring up quality players to be p/t back ups.
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics." - Benjamin Disraeli

#6 bmore_ken

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 08:40 AM

Though I mostly concur, how long did it take to realize Rich Hill, Garrett Atkins or Adam Eaton was an epic fail? To me, Chavez and Matusz might warrant more time but both Gregg and Johnson have no future in Baltimore. Clearing them away and giving Phillips and Miller their spots gives the O's a few more practical if perhaps minor enhancements/alternatives. If Miller produces, then Chavez is more easily jettisoned if/when his 8 week trial fails to pan out. He too is only on a one year deal.


Atkins played in 44 games for the O's, that's not 2 weeks. It shouldn't have taken 44 games to figure out that he sucked, but two weeks wasn't even enough to judge him unless you had a crystal ball at your disposal. Maybe with Gregg you don't put him into pressure situations and see if he works out whatever's going on with him, but you're paying him too much money to jettison him after 4 or 5 appearances. I could care less what you do about Johnson, but the bottom line is you can;t judge anyone on the opening 2 weeks of the season, particularly Johnson who hasn't even played that much in the two weeks.
Secretary of State Hillary Clinton. It has a nice sound to it

Suggs has signed. I've never been so happy to be wrong

Don't blame me, I voted Bob Barr:cool:

#7 hector

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 09:25 AM

Atkins played in 44 games for the O's, that's not 2 weeks. It shouldn't have taken 44 games to figure out that he sucked, but two weeks wasn't even enough to judge him unless you had a crystal ball at your disposal. Maybe with Gregg you don't put him into pressure situations and see if he works out whatever's going on with him, but you're paying him too much money to jettison him after 4 or 5 appearances. I could care less what you do about Johnson, but the bottom line is you can;t judge anyone on the opening 2 weeks of the season, particularly Johnson who hasn't even played that much in the two weeks.


Your advocacy for Nick J is duly noted. When's the next meeting of the NJ Fan Club?

#8 weird-O

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 09:34 AM

Your advocacy for Nick J is duly noted. When's the next meeting of the NJ Fan Club?


as I understand it, all meetings have been postponed because they couldn't find a meeting room. it seems all the rooms have been booked by the VG fan club. sadly, it's just one guy talking to himself. membership in that club deteriorated faster than Vlad's bat speed. it's now down to a single member, which is fitting since singles were the only offensive contribution VG could offer at the end of his almost HOF career. they're thinking of changing the club to a cop punchers theme? or something like that.
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics." - Benjamin Disraeli

#9 bmore_ken

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 09:51 AM

Your advocacy for Nick J is duly noted. When's the next meeting of the NJ Fan Club?


I'm not a Nick Johnson fan Hector, but if it helps you to sleep at night to believe that, have at it
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Don't blame me, I voted Bob Barr:cool:

#10 bmore_ken

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 09:52 AM

as I understand it, all meetings have been postponed because they couldn't find a meeting room. it seems all the rooms have been booked by the VG fan club. sadly, it's just one guy talking to himself. membership in that club deteriorated faster than Vlad's bat speed. it's now down to a single member, which is fitting since singles were the only offensive contribution VG could offer at the end of his almost HOF career. they're thinking of changing the club to a cop punchers theme? or something like that.


Well done sir
Secretary of State Hillary Clinton. It has a nice sound to it

Suggs has signed. I've never been so happy to be wrong

Don't blame me, I voted Bob Barr:cool:

#11 hector

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 09:55 AM

as I understand it, all meetings have been postponed because they couldn't find a meeting room. it seems all the rooms have been booked by the VG fan club. sadly, it's just one guy talking to himself. membership in that club deteriorated faster than Vlad's bat speed. it's now down to a single member, which is fitting since singles were the only offensive contribution VG could offer at the end of his almost HOF career. they're thinking of changing the club to a cop punchers theme? or something like that.


Really? Where and when is the next meeting? Not in your neighborhood I hope. I always assumed the official VG Fan Club will be in the Latino wing in Cooperstown.

#12 weird-O

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 10:27 AM

Really? Where and when is the next meeting? Not in your neighborhood I hope. I always assumed the official VG Fan Club will be in the Latino wing in Cooperstown.


unfortunately for Vlad's fans, those rooms are reserved for HOF caliber players. maybe the Taco Bell? I love their authentic mexican food.
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#13 hector

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 10:50 AM

unfortunately for Vlad's fans, those rooms are reserved for HOF caliber players. maybe the Taco Bell? I love their authentic mexican food.


Which Taco Bell did you reserve? Not the one in your neighborhood I hope.

#14 Steveg85321

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 11:36 AM

At the risk of diverting this thread from the witty banter, I agree with those who say that two weeks is not sufficient time to determine how productive many players may be or even in what roles they best fit. The Orioles in first place is a statistical anomaly based on a limited number of games. Same goes for a hitter's production after a dozen at-bats or a pitcher's after a half dozen innings. It's a long season, and people doing well in the minors will get their chance as major league opportunities arise due to attrition.

#15 Jimmy Jazz

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 11:59 AM

In a vacuum, 2 weeks isn't enough time to make a determination on Johnson. But looking at his stats from the last few years is. He was pinch hit for last night for christ sake. The DH. Pinch hit for.

#16 can you hear me now!

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 01:46 PM

10 games in is not enough of a measuring stick. frankly somewhere near 40 games is a better measurement of where this team talent wise. they may be in first today, but 5 days from now they could be in last. then what is the assessment?

the bottom line is this team lacks the talent to sustain anyt type of momentum. To think otherwise is wishful thinking. They did nothing during the offseason to make this team better and at the end of the day that will be apparent. 162 game seasons have a way of serparating the great from the good, the average from the good, the below average from the average, and the truly bad from the below average.

Outside of CF and catcher, the woes are average to truly bad with a lot of ?????'s who appear to be more suspect than prospect.
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#17 Ravens2006

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 02:04 PM

Hmmm... the real measuring stick is about 162 games long. Their record at the end of the season will summarize the entire year.

As for Eveland being a good signee... the guy is in Norfolk. Duquette projected him as a starter in the rotation when acquired. Granted, no way Dan really thought that was a good bet, but he said it.

The reason they're off to a 6-4 start is primarily the power production from Wieters, Jones, Reimold, Markakis, and Hardy (see, hitting really CAN make a difference)... along with the pitching of Arrieta and Hunter. Pray to whatever God you like that it keeps up. The only Duquette addition who has been a "plus" piece so far is Hammel (through 2 starts). And I'll reserve judgment on that one for another 25 starts or so...
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#18 mythoughts

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 02:06 PM

The sooner the O's realizethe Gregg and Matusz are the 2 biggest roster mistakes the better.
I would never use Gregg in a game unless the O's were down by at least 4 runs (a mop up role) and Matusz would be in the bullpen as a situational left-hand specialist.

If the O's want to avoid losing 90 games this year it will require the O's eating these 2 contracts.
It's a matter of addition by subtraction, the O's become a better team the moment these two aren't on the roster.
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#19 bmore_ken

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 02:09 PM

Hmmm... the real measuring stick is about 162 games long. Their record at the end of the season will summarize the entire year.


I disagree, it doesn't take a 162 games to see a player sucks
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#20 dandrews

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 04:11 PM

Hmmm... the real measuring stick is about 162 games long. Their record at the end of the season will summarize the entire year.

As for Eveland being a good signee... the guy is in Norfolk. Duquette projected him as a starter in the rotation when acquired. Granted, no way Dan really thought that was a good bet, but he said it.

The reason they're off to a 6-4 start is primarily the power production from Wieters, Jones, Reimold, Markakis, and Hardy (see, hitting really CAN make a difference)... along with the pitching of Arrieta and Hunter. Pray to whatever God you like that it keeps up. The only Duquette addition who has been a "plus" piece so far is Hammel (through 2 starts). And I'll reserve judgment on that one for another 25 starts or so...


Wilson Betemit has been solid and Matt Lindstrom hasn't given up a run yet.

Also Chen looked pretty damn good his first start.




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