Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Ravens2006

A challenge... :)

30 posts in this topic

If you have Game Rewind with Coach's Film access, step through the coach's film for every Ravens offensive play in the first half last Sunday.

 

If you don't have that access, I'll say this... if you REALLY want to have a feel for what's going on, who is doing what, etc... I think it's worth every penny.

 

Anyway, watch the O-Line performance in the first half. On every play. It's jaw-droppingly bad. Being at the game Sunday, I felt like the Broncos were getting decent pressure, but it stands out a lot more on film. Many of the errant throws that we booed on Sunday were clearly a result of Flacco deciding to unload the ball early / quickly to avoid a sack.

 

Play after play, the Broncos manage to get a free runner bearing down on Flacco before he's finished his drop. There was one play where the Ravens had 8 men in the backfield right before the snap, the Broncos had 5 on the line between the hashes. 8 to 5. Pitta motioned out in to a pattern. 7 to 5 at the snap. Rice and Leach both took about one stutter step as if they thought about blocking, but both quickly stepped out of the backfield, taking one of the Broncos defenders with them. The Broncos still managed to get two guys in Flacco's face in under 2 seconds... where they actually actively RUSHED FOUR and the Ravens snapped it with SEVEN men in position to block. It's really alarming how often they manage to break free in his face QUICKLY, despite the Ravens having a numbers advantage in protection.

 

Osemele was BRUTAL.

 

Oher was almost as bad.

 

None of them looked any good in general.

 

One screen to Rice is ruined by the Broncos D-line literally pushing two Ravens O-linemen in to his path as he tried to flair out.

 

On a play near the Ravens own endzone, Williams gets pushed back in to Joe's face immediately, while both tackles are collapsing, and Joe unloads quickly before Rice has even turned around.

 

Another play sees a Broncos DE blow through Osemele and the neighboring guard as though they're standing still. Result, another quick pass where he's just unloading and praying.

 

Go ahead, check the film for yourself.

 

It was BRUTAL.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll take your word for it, and yes by watching the game I admit that the line is not good at all. If what you say is true, and I have no reason to doubt it, then the Ravens are finished right now, no matter where they end up. The line isn't going to get any better at this stage. When they get to the playoffs, they will have no chance against Houston, Denver, or New England. They will likely struggle against Indy, Pittsburgh or Cincinnati as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'll take your word for it, and yes by watching the game I admit that the line is not good at all. If what you say is true, and I have no reason to doubt it, then the Ravens are finished right now, no matter where they end up. The line isn't going to get any better at this stage. When they get to the playoffs, they will have no chance against Houston, Denver, or New England. They will likely struggle against Indy, Pittsburgh or Cincinnati as well.

 

Their best move for the short term would be to insert McKinnie and LT and move Oher over to the right side.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
If you have Game Rewind with Coach's Film access, step through the coach's film for every Ravens offensive play in the first half last Sunday.

 

If you don't have that access, I'll say this... if you REALLY want to have a feel for what's going on, who is doing what, etc... I think it's worth every penny.

 

Anyway, watch the O-Line performance in the first half. On every play. It's jaw-droppingly bad. Being at the game Sunday, I felt like the Broncos were getting decent pressure, but it stands out a lot more on film. Many of the errant throws that we booed on Sunday were clearly a result of Flacco deciding to unload the ball early / quickly to avoid a sack.

 

Play after play, the Broncos manage to get a free runner bearing down on Flacco before he's finished his drop. There was one play where the Ravens had 8 men in the backfield right before the snap, the Broncos had 5 on the line between the hashes. 8 to 5. Pitta motioned out in to a pattern. 7 to 5 at the snap. Rice and Leach both took about one stutter step as if they thought about blocking, but both quickly stepped out of the backfield, taking one of the Broncos defenders with them. The Broncos still managed to get two guys in Flacco's face in under 2 seconds... where they actually actively RUSHED FOUR and the Ravens snapped it with SEVEN men in position to block. It's really alarming how often they manage to break free in his face QUICKLY, despite the Ravens having a numbers advantage in protection.

 

Osemele was BRUTAL.

 

Oher was almost as bad.

 

None of them looked any good in general.

 

One screen to Rice is ruined by the Broncos D-line literally pushing two Ravens O-linemen in to his path as he tried to flair out.

 

On a play near the Ravens own endzone, Williams gets pushed back in to Joe's face immediately, while both tackles are collapsing, and Joe unloads quickly before Rice has even turned around.

 

Another play sees a Broncos DE blow through Osemele and the neighboring guard as though they're standing still. Result, another quick pass where he's just unloading and praying.

 

Go ahead, check the film for yourself.

 

It was BRUTAL.

This should be mandatory reading before anyone comments any further on Joe's "lack of pocket awareness". The same people who were screaming that instead of taking sacks and fumbling the ball Joe should "throw the ball away" are NOW screaming: "Joe's throwing the ball 10 feet over the WRs heads!" Joe just can't win in this environment of pure stupidity. THIS post really gets to the core of the matter/problems.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
If you have Game Rewind with Coach's Film access, step through the coach's film for every Ravens offensive play in the first half last Sunday.

 

If you don't have that access, I'll say this... if you REALLY want to have a feel for what's going on, who is doing what, etc... I think it's worth every penny.

 

Anyway, watch the O-Line performance in the first half. On every play. It's jaw-droppingly bad. Being at the game Sunday, I felt like the Broncos were getting decent pressure, but it stands out a lot more on film. Many of the errant throws that we booed on Sunday were clearly a result of Flacco deciding to unload the ball early / quickly to avoid a sack.

 

Play after play, the Broncos manage to get a free runner bearing down on Flacco before he's finished his drop. There was one play where the Ravens had 8 men in the backfield right before the snap, the Broncos had 5 on the line between the hashes. 8 to 5. Pitta motioned out in to a pattern. 7 to 5 at the snap. Rice and Leach both took about one stutter step as if they thought about blocking, but both quickly stepped out of the backfield, taking one of the Broncos defenders with them. The Broncos still managed to get two guys in Flacco's face in under 2 seconds... where they actually actively RUSHED FOUR and the Ravens snapped it with SEVEN men in position to block. It's really alarming how often they manage to break free in his face QUICKLY, despite the Ravens having a numbers advantage in protection.

 

Osemele was BRUTAL.

 

Oher was almost as bad.

 

None of them looked any good in general.

 

One screen to Rice is ruined by the Broncos D-line literally pushing two Ravens O-linemen in to his path as he tried to flair out.

 

On a play near the Ravens own endzone, Williams gets pushed back in to Joe's face immediately, while both tackles are collapsing, and Joe unloads quickly before Rice has even turned around.

 

Another play sees a Broncos DE blow through Osemele and the neighboring guard as though they're standing still. Result, another quick pass where he's just unloading and praying.

 

Go ahead, check the film for yourself.

 

It was BRUTAL.

 

Excellent post. Flacco amidst all of this, actually does pretty well don't you think? Put Brady behind this pitiful excuse for a line and he'd be doing more whining than the Flacco haters on this board. If they are really this bad, why don't the coaches make a change? Move Oher to the right side where he should have been anyway and get McKinnie in the game. Seriously, do something.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Move Oher to the right side where he should have been anyway and get McKinnie in the game. Seriously, do something.
Ask HARBAUGH!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bobbie Williams is the most out of shape, overweight, over-the-hill lineman on the team, yet Harbaugh started him over inserting McKinnie back at LT moving Oher to RT and putting Osemele at guard. This makes no sense to me and makes me wonder what Harbaugh is doing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't have access to the film you are referring to but while I was at the stadium I was repeatedly pointing out to everyone around me that even the great Peyton Manning throws incomplete passes and gets sacked when he is pressured.

 

I read somewhere that Joe got hit 31 times Sunday. While I don't know if that number is accurate I do know he took a beating. I also read he had an average of 2 seconds per drop back before getting hit. Again I am not sure if that is 100% accurate but the point I am trying to make is a QB needs at least 3 seconds to have a real chance at making a play.

 

How many times have we seen our secondary get beat after the QB has stood in the pocket for what seems like 5-10 seconds. If Joe had that kind of time he would pick the other team apart too. I always remember my high school coach saying "as the line goes so goes the offence."

 

I also remember seeing Big Ben throw a pick to lose the game last week. It was almost identicle to the pick 6 Joe threw.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There were times during the game where the Ravens D line got decent pressure on Peyton, and the Broncos were not moving the ball much. Hit him a few times, some sacks, a couple attempts were very close to fumbles or turnovers. As the game went on, the Broncos were keeping more guys between the hashes and in the backfield to protect him. Magically, he started making some big throws once he had a couple extra seconds to stand there and survey the field. They started keeping 7 in to block, or at least potentially block before one or two would release and go out in a pattern.

 

And you're right about the two second mark... there weren't very many instances where Joe had more than two seconds to plant / decide what to do with the ball. More often than not somebody was coming almost immediately. Even on the occasions where the Broncos sent a LB from back off the line, where he had more ground to cover to get there, the guy was usually coming through clean.

 

Yeah, if they don't at least try something different (the much yelled McKinney LT, Oher RT, Osemele at G alignment maybe?) then I don't see things getting much better with this group. Yanda's health isn't helping right now, but whether he can or can't go this week... I still think they need to do something significant to adjust.

 

At his point it seems like the staff is putting their money on this idea that some of these guys just need to play better. Or "will" play better. And they're not altering any of the schemes. I just don't think you can count on this same group of O-linemen magically "playing better" in the final weeks. Yanda would help a little bit... there are a handful of plays where Rice / Leach seem to cheat and jump to help Williams right off the snap, even though the pressure comes from elsewhere. But I don't think he's going to be a single magic bullet.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Great analysis into the heart of the Raven's problems. It's what I've been saying all along too. Joe cannot succeed behind this horrible O-line.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Bobbie Williams is the most out of shape, overweight, over-the-hill lineman on the team, yet Harbaugh started him over inserting McKinnie back at LT moving Oher to RT and putting Osemele at guard. This makes no sense to me and makes me wonder what Harbaugh is doing.

 

He has a hard head and once he puts you in his dog house [Mckinnie] he won't let go. He's his own worst enemy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Too bad they "couldn't" afford Grubbs. :rolleyes:

 

What a load a horse #$%6 and a complete waste of a pick.

 

We went from having on of the best young lines in the league to one of the worst old lines in one year.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
If you have Game Rewind with Coach's Film access, step through the coach's film for every Ravens offensive play in the first half last Sunday.

 

If you don't have that access, I'll say this... if you REALLY want to have a feel for what's going on, who is doing what, etc... I think it's worth every penny.

 

Anyway, watch the O-Line performance in the first half. On every play. It's jaw-droppingly bad. Being at the game Sunday, I felt like the Broncos were getting decent pressure, but it stands out a lot more on film. Many of the errant throws that we booed on Sunday were clearly a result of Flacco deciding to unload the ball early / quickly to avoid a sack.

 

Play after play, the Broncos manage to get a free runner bearing down on Flacco before he's finished his drop. There was one play where the Ravens had 8 men in the backfield right before the snap, the Broncos had 5 on the line between the hashes. 8 to 5. Pitta motioned out in to a pattern. 7 to 5 at the snap. Rice and Leach both took about one stutter step as if they thought about blocking, but both quickly stepped out of the backfield, taking one of the Broncos defenders with them. The Broncos still managed to get two guys in Flacco's face in under 2 seconds... where they actually actively RUSHED FOUR and the Ravens snapped it with SEVEN men in position to block. It's really alarming how often they manage to break free in his face QUICKLY, despite the Ravens having a numbers advantage in protection.

 

Osemele was BRUTAL.

 

Oher was almost as bad.

 

None of them looked any good in general.

 

One screen to Rice is ruined by the Broncos D-line literally pushing two Ravens O-linemen in to his path as he tried to flair out.

 

On a play near the Ravens own endzone, Williams gets pushed back in to Joe's face immediately, while both tackles are collapsing, and Joe unloads quickly before Rice has even turned around.

 

Another play sees a Broncos DE blow through Osemele and the neighboring guard as though they're standing still. Result, another quick pass where he's just unloading and praying.

 

Go ahead, check the film for yourself.

 

It was BRUTAL.

 

Oh for crying out loud Ravens2006! How dare you inject film and facts into the "Joe sucks" argument. Now we have nothing to talk about. ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Oh for crying out loud Ravens2006! How dare you inject film and facts into the "Joe sucks" argument. Now we have nothing to talk about. ;)
Oh I thought you were in the "Joe sucks" camp. Guess not; my bad. Sorry.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Yep, basically the same things I saw and discussed... except with helfpul pictures. :)

 

Really, it's uncanny how if you go through literally EVERY offensive snap in the first half, especially the passing downs, how the Ravens O-line / blocking backs constantly either slide the wrong way at the snap, or just flat out get beaten off the ball.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yep, basically the same things I saw and discussed... except with helfpul pictures. :)

 

Really, it's uncanny how if you go through literally EVERY offensive snap in the first half, especially the passing downs, how the Ravens O-line / blocking backs constantly either slide the wrong way at the snap, or just flat out get beaten off the ball.

And yet...it's all Joe's fault.

 

smh

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Oh I thought you were in the "Joe sucks" camp. Guess not; my bad. Sorry.

 

No. I think Joe is a franchise QB. Although I must admit his play the past 3 games is concerning. I think Joe should make Matt Ryan, Matt Stafford, Phillip Rivers, Jay Cutler money. Well, somewhere in that range.

 

I was merely saying on previous threads that Cam s not all to blame.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
No. I think Joe is a franchise QB. Although I must admit his play the past 3 games is concerning. I think Joe should make Matt Ryan, Matt Stafford, Phillip Rivers, Jay Cutler money. Well, somewhere in that range.

 

I was merely saying on previous threads that Cam s not all to blame.

Aaah. Okay. But can I ask...do you think he's been more to blame, vs less to blame, for the overall problems of the offense?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
No. I think Joe is a franchise QB. Although I must admit his play the past 3 games is concerning. I think Joe should make Matt Ryan, Matt Stafford, Phillip Rivers, Jay Cutler money. Well, somewhere in that range.

 

I was merely saying on previous threads that Cam s not all to blame.

 

Cameron's problem is that he is always the same.

 

His formations are predictable, and his unwillingness to change scheme mid-game got him canned yet again. I for one thought it was about 3/4 of a season too late, but maybe now that there will be two weeks of practice under Caldwell, we will see something better this week.

 

Flacco, given average protection is much better than the average QB. Give him great protection, he is in the top 1/4 of the league. His arm and release give him the ability to make throws most QBs dream about. I am not just talking about the long ball, the deep out, the seam, the post. His velocity and accuracy give him the chance to put the ball in places that most can't.

 

That being said, if he or any QB has 1.8 seconds to read and release, their stats will look very much like Flacco's last week.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Cameron's problem is that he is always the same.

 

His formations are predictable, and his unwillingness to change scheme mid-game got him canned yet again. I for one thought it was about 3/4 of a season too late, but maybe now that there will be two weeks of practice under Caldwell, we will see something better this week.

 

Flacco, given average protection is much better than the average QB. Give him great protection, he is in the top 1/4 of the league. His arm and release give him the ability to make throws most QBs dream about. I am not just talking about the long ball, the deep out, the seam, the post. His velocity and accuracy give him the chance to put the ball in places that most can't.

 

That being said, if he or any QB has 1.8 seconds to read and release, their stats will look very much like Flacco's last week.

 

Sound like anyone else on the coaching staff?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sound like anyone else on the coaching staff?
Oh. On the Ravens staff. N/M. I thought you were talking about my ex-wife.

 

;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You guys are a lot more dedicated than I'll ever be. After a loss, I can't even rewatch a game recorded with my DVR, let alone a coach's film play by play. Sorry, that would be cruel and inhuman punishment to me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
You guys are a lot more dedicated than I'll ever be. After a loss, I can't even rewatch a game recorded with my DVR, let alone a coach's film play by play. Sorry, that would be cruel and inhuman punishment to me.
THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE!!!

 

B)

 

Then again...

 

Freedom ain't ever free.

 

;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites