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Get off your high horse


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#1 weird-O

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 09:31 AM

there has been a growing discussion about the class of players appearing on the HOF, now that sterroid era players are eligible.

I just heard Richard Justice share his opinion on the subject. he said writers can't know all the players who used PEDS, as such, it's not fair to not vote for a confirmed user. in other words, known users shouldn't be punished until all users are punished.

that's an interesting philosophy. perhaps we should use that in all corners of society. no speeding tickets for anyone, because the cops can't catch every speeder, and so on.

then he said the voters need to get off their high horse and let Bagwell in. he must have a real thing for Bagwell.
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics." - Benjamin Disraeli

#2 weird-O

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 09:38 AM

a post career Bagwell. wow, he's really slimmed down. he must be dieting :rolleyes:

http://www.zimbio.co...98/Jeff Bagwell
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics." - Benjamin Disraeli

#3 bmore_ken

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 10:58 AM

I think I might be the only baseball fan in America who doesn't give two shiites about the steroid era
Secretary of State Hillary Clinton. It has a nice sound to it

Suggs has signed. I've never been so happy to be wrong

Don't blame me, I voted Bob Barr:cool:

#4 ivanbalt

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 11:45 AM

I think I might be the only baseball fan in America who doesn't give two shiites about the steroid era


I think players at the level of Bonds and Clemens should make the HOF.

#5 bmore_ken

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 11:50 AM

I think players at the level of Bonds and Clemens should make the HOF.


I agree 100%. I think if you have the numbers regardless of steroids you should get in. Palmeiro and McGuire should already be in
Secretary of State Hillary Clinton. It has a nice sound to it

Suggs has signed. I've never been so happy to be wrong

Don't blame me, I voted Bob Barr:cool:

#6 Far from home

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 11:59 AM

Bagwell, imo, isn't a HOFer.
You still have other guys, like Dale Murphy, who was unquestionably one of the best players of his era, sitting out there.
Jack Morris, imo, is more deserving than Clemens.
Bonds, on the other hand, still deserves to go in the Hall. He was best player just about anyone alive has seen play.
Ideological gravy trains lead to poor decisions.
Learn from the last President, and make this next era one of rebuilding what has been torn down.
Instead of being loyal to your party, be loyal to your country and your people.

#7 bmore_ken

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 12:06 PM

Jack Morris, imo, is more deserving than Clemens.


Not according to the numbers. Say what you want about Clemens but I'm pretty sure he makes the list of top 10 pitchers of all time for most people
Secretary of State Hillary Clinton. It has a nice sound to it

Suggs has signed. I've never been so happy to be wrong

Don't blame me, I voted Bob Barr:cool:

#8 Far from home

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 12:15 PM

Not according to the numbers. Say what you want about Clemens but I'm pretty sure he makes the list of top 10 pitchers of all time for most people


Yeah, you're right.
I just can't stand him - which is creating bias on my part.
Ideological gravy trains lead to poor decisions.
Learn from the last President, and make this next era one of rebuilding what has been torn down.
Instead of being loyal to your party, be loyal to your country and your people.

#9 weird-O

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 12:26 PM

I think I might be the only baseball fan in America who doesn't give two shiites about the steroid era


it's that attitude that lets the bad guys win :P
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics." - Benjamin Disraeli

#10 weird-O

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 12:45 PM

Bagwell, imo, isn't a HOFer.


I agree.

I liked Bagwell as a player. he made it fun to watch Astros games. but his body tell me, beyond any reasonable doubt, that he was juicing. as a juicer, he was nowhere near the production level of the other juicers. he needs about 100-125 more HRs.

Bonds, on the other hand, still deserves to go in the Hall. He was best player just about anyone alive has seen play.


I'd put Griffey jr. above him. Griffey was a significantly better defensive player, and with no hint of PEDs suspicion, he was obviously a bigger offensive presence as well. take away Balco, and I have no doubt Griffey would have surpassed Bonds in power numbers.
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics." - Benjamin Disraeli

#11 Gizmo

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 01:17 PM

[quote name='weird-O']I agree.

I liked Bagwell as a player. he made it fun to watch Astros games. but his body tell me, beyond any reasonable doubt, that he was juicing. ...QUOTE]


"It wasn't juice. It was protein shakes" ;)

#12 Gizmo

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 01:18 PM

I agree.

I liked Bagwell as a player. he made it fun to watch Astros games. but his body tell me, beyond any reasonable doubt, that he was juicing. as a juicer, he was nowhere near the production level of the other juicers. he needs about 100-125 more HRs.



I'd put Griffey jr. above him. Griffey was a significantly better defensive player, and with no hint of PEDs suspicion, he was obviously a bigger offensive presence as well. take away Balco, and I have no doubt Griffey would have surpassed Bonds in power numbers.


On a more serious note, completely agree.

#13 weird-O

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 01:31 PM

[quote name='Gizmo'][quote name='weird-O']I agree.

I liked Bagwell as a player. he made it fun to watch Astros games. but his body tell me, beyond any reasonable doubt, that he was juicing. ...QUOTE]


"It wasn't juice. It was protein shakes" ;)[/QUOTE]

LOL!!! he was great in that movie :D
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics." - Benjamin Disraeli

#14 Oriole Dave

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 01:33 PM

Bonds and company made 100’s of million whether or not some nerd like Ken Rosenthal votes for them is trivial. Plus Ken and company jumped on for the ride and didn’t question what was happening at the time. Right now in New York they have an ageless SS but no one except Skip Bayless has had the guts to ask the tough questions. The voters are/were part of problem.

#15 mythoughts

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 02:23 PM

a post career Bagwell. wow, he's really slimmed down. he must be dieting :rolleyes:

http://www.zimbio.co...98/Jeff Bagwell


That just like Jay Gibbons.
He went from looking like Popeye to looking like Olive Oyl
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#16 weird-O

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 03:31 PM

That just like Jay Gibbons.
He went from looking like Popeye to looking like Olive Oyl


he was an Orioles, so he's innocent :D
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics." - Benjamin Disraeli

#17 SVOF

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 05:55 PM

I wouldn't vote for any of those I suspect used steroids including Griffey, Biggio, Bagwell, Piazza even though they never got caught.

#18 BCC

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 09:25 PM

http://ryancoleman.org/

#19 Jimmy Jazz

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 01:11 AM

They need to either simply vote in the best players of the steroid era regardless of how they tested or not vote anyone in. This business where the voters attempt to determine who was and was not clean is ridiculous.

#20 weird-O

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 07:16 AM

They need to either simply vote in the best players of the steroid era regardless of how they tested or not vote anyone in. This business where the voters attempt to determine who was and was not clean is ridiculous.


so punish everyone?

and what years of service do you begin and end this blanket guilty verdict on the entire player's union?

are you thinking of something along the lines of - every player whose career included the years between 1989 - 2012 are automatically disqualified from HOF eligibility.

for example, Trout, Harper and Machado, if they accomplish HOF caliber careers, are disqualified because they played in the same year as Melky. is this what you have in mind?
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics." - Benjamin Disraeli




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