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If Alex Rodriguez retires this year, is he a HOFer?


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#1 Far from home

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 09:48 AM

http://www.baseball-...rodrial01.shtml

I realize that ARod has had a lot of problems with links to performance enhancers.
Thing is, nothing has been proven, and that I know of, he's never tested positive.
Also, he generally had a very good relationship with the media, so I don't think they have an axe to grind with him.

His numbers are still stellar, but how much is his legacy tarnished?
Does he get into the Hall?
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#2 soulflower

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 10:02 AM

Also, he generally had a very good relationship with the media, so I don't think they have an axe to grind with him.


What media? Not even the NY media like A-Rod. And ESPN seems to have a vendetta against him as if he's personally responsible for PEDs in baseball.

I don't think he's going to retire anytime soon.

He certainly has HOF numbers but whether or not he gets in depends on whether Bonds, Clemens, or any other suspected PED users get into the HOF...
"...reality has a well-known liberal bias"

#3 LarryN

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 10:30 AM

Tainted. Like SF said, if Bonds, Clemens, et al don't get in, ARod will have to pay for a ticket if he wants in to Cooperstown, just like you and me.
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#4 weird-O

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 10:31 AM

he admitted to using PEDs for a few years. including this new story, he's been linked to 2 major PED scandals and MLB wasn't convinced he came clean about the last scandal in which he had a patient-Dr relationship with a guy who was indicted for PED distribution (or however that sort of thing is worded). and his cousin is banned from Yankee stadium because he's a known PED dealer. if he gets in, it wouldn't be for a long time, because he's not a likeable guy. he doesn't seem to have anyone's respect. among the writers that vote, he's considered skeevy.

my impression of him as a player, is that he has padded his stats against weaker pitching in insignigicant moments. except for 2009, he's an absolute no show in the post season, and that's the stuff that writers look to when voting for the Hall.

they use the term "compiler". Pay-Rod fits that description. Biggio is considered a compiler. he wasn't outstanding at anything. but he consistently performed well for so long, he was able to reach some of those milestones.
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics." - Benjamin Disraeli

#5 soulflower

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 10:47 AM

my impression of him as a player, is that he has padded his stats against weaker pitching in insignigicant moments.


Gimmie a break. You mean to tell me that all or most of his hits and homeruns came at insignificant moments? So you're basically admitting that you've never watched him play in his prime?

I understand why most people don't like A-Rod but I never understand why they have to make ridiculous statements about him to make excuses for their biases towards him.

I'm a Yankee fan. He may stink in the post-season but for most of his time in pinstripes, he's been a major part of helping them get to the post-season. And he used to kill us when he played for Seattle and Texas.

they use the term "compiler". Pay-Rod fits that description.


It's not his fault that teams offered him so much money. Texas and NY offered A-Rod far more than he should've been paid. What was he supposed to do? Turn it down?
"...reality has a well-known liberal bias"

#6 weird-O

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 11:17 AM

Gimmie a break. You mean to tell me that all or most of his hits and homeruns came at insignificant moments? So you're basically admitting that you've never watched him play in his prime?

I understand why most people don't like A-Rod but I never understand why they have to make ridiculous statements about him to make excuses for their biases towards him.


rather than offer a long explanation to dispell your notion that I'm dumping on him because he's a Yankee. I'll just say this, I'm not a fan of Jeter either. but he is clutch. if you're a fan of the opposing team, and you have your best pitcher on the mound, he's still the guy you don't want to see come to plate with an important game on the line. even in his prime, Pay-Rod wasn't that guy.

I've seen Pay-Rod kill weak pitching. but against good pitching and in important moments, he has left me with the impression that he can't deliver when it matters most. I didn't say it's a statistical fact, it may not be. it's my impression.

It's not his fault that teams offered him so much money. Texas and NY offered A-Rod far more than he should've been paid. What was he supposed to do? Turn it down?


what does his salary have to do with fitting the description of a compiler? did you post this because I call him Pay-Rod?
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics." - Benjamin Disraeli

#7 soulflower

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 11:41 AM

rather than offer a long explanation to dispell your notion that I'm dumping on him because he's a Yankee. I'll just say this, I'm not a fan of Jeter either. but he is clutch. if you're a fan of the opposing team, and you have your best pitcher on the mound, he's still the guy you don't want to see come to plate with an important game on the line. even in his prime, Pay-Rod wasn't that guy.



The stats disagree with you. I love Jeter. He's one of my favorite players of all time but offensively, he wasn't on the same level as A-Rod when both were in their prime. A-Rod was the best short-stop in baseball from 95 til he joined the Yankees and moved to third base.

I've seen Pay-Rod kill weak pitching. but against good pitching and in important moments, he has left me with the impression that he can't deliver when it matters most. I didn't say it's a statistical fact, it may not be. it's my impression.



That's the great thing about statistics. If you don't watch A-Rod play every game, you may be biased and think he stinks all the time in clutch situations. His career stats prove that that assumption isn't true.
"...reality has a well-known liberal bias"

#8 HAIL2BNG

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 11:58 AM

Unimportant times like this:



or this:


Its no surprise that the SSA is a mess when they hire economists with pea brains.

#9 Pickle20

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 12:38 PM

No.

None of the steroid players have been inducted thus far, so what will make ARoid any different?

#10 weird-O

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 12:39 PM

The stats disagree with you. I love Jeter. He's one of my favorite players of all time but offensively, he wasn't on the same level as A-Rod when both were in their prime. A-Rod was the best short-stop in baseball from 95 til he joined the Yankees and moved to third base.


That's the great thing about statistics. If you don't watch A-Rod play every game, you may be biased and think he stinks all the time in clutch situations. His career stats prove that that assumption isn't true.


I bolded that part, because I want to be clear, I'm not saying he never came thru in the clutch. also, I'm not comparing career stats between the two players. Jeter may not have equally impressive offensive numbers, but he sure seems to come thru more often, in clutch situations. Also, I think you make a valid point that both players may leave very different impressions if you watch 162 yankee games a year. I don't, so I'm basing this on a smaller sample size.

if you're telling me you can statistically prove Pay-Rod is a clutch player, I wouldn't doubt you. I'm just saying I haven't seen it. just so you know, I formed this opinion about him from as early as his days in Seattle. I mention that because I don't want you to think I'm just in lock step with the media. but over the years I've heard many different comments on ESPN & MLB network about him not being the go to guy. and although I don't read/watch the NY media, I've heard repeated comments (from national level media) that NY agree Pay-Rod pretty much doesn't come thru in the clutch.
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics." - Benjamin Disraeli

#11 weird-O

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 12:44 PM

Unimportant times like this:



or this:


one of those was 2009, I mentioned that he was very good in the 2009 post season. here's a rhetorical question. it's rhetorical because it would probably take awhile to really answer, and I'm not putting that demand on you.

if asked to come up with a list of big time moments where Pay-Rod came thru. how long would that list be? how many big moments just popped into your head after reading that question.
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics." - Benjamin Disraeli

#12 mythoughts

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 01:23 PM

The Baseball Hall of Fame has become irrelevent
2009 is the International Year of Astronomy
Have you looked through a telescope this year ?

Saturday October 24, 2009 is Astronomy Day.
Consider visiting a local astronomy club/astronomical society, planetarium, or observatory to take a look at the sky through a telescope.

http://www.astroleag...y/astroday.html

#13 Slidemaster

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 01:27 PM

No chance. He's a two time knucklehead.
The kids are alright.

#14 soulflower

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 02:26 PM

one of those was 2009, I mentioned that he was very good in the 2009 post season. here's a rhetorical question. it's rhetorical because it would probably take awhile to really answer, and I'm not putting that demand on you.

if asked to come up with a list of big time moments where Pay-Rod came thru. how long would that list be? how many big moments just popped into your head after reading that question.


There's a long list of great players who've struggled in the playoffs. Some are in the HOF. Post-season performance doesn't overshadow career numbers.
"...reality has a well-known liberal bias"

#15 weird-O

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 03:24 PM

There's a long list of great players who've struggled in the playoffs. Some are in the HOF. Post-season performance doesn't overshadow career numbers.


I agree, but it is a determining factor when the player in question has 10 years of stats that may ultimately be jaded by PED use.

HOF voters aren't held to the standards of criminal court. they aren't forced to make decisions based exclusively on hard evidence. he admitted to using PEDs for few years. if I'm a voter, I'm immediately asking myself, are these really the only years he was doping?

then I would starting thinking about what I know about him. for example, he has a history of running with his cousin since they were kids. I mentioned his cousin's reputation earlier in the thread. here's something else, his cousin and his friends (who are mutual friends of Alex) are also known for experimenting with PEDs in dogs and cocks for the purpose of creating super fighters.

none of this stuff would officially get him in touble with the league. he can't and shouldn't be fined or suspended for keeping bad company. but it can and will be used against him in the court of public opinion. and that's really what the HOF voters are.

these variable, coupled with what we saw earlier this month, I think he faces challenges getting into the Hall. if the writers aren't sure about Bonds and Clemens, I think they'll have even more issues with a guy who has lesser stats and an equally shady relationship with PEDs.
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics." - Benjamin Disraeli

#16 HAIL2BNG

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 03:41 PM

one of those was 2009, I mentioned that he was very good in the 2009 post season. here's a rhetorical question. it's rhetorical because it would probably take awhile to really answer, and I'm not putting that demand on you.

if asked to come up with a list of big time moments where Pay-Rod came thru. how long would that list be? how many big moments just popped into your head after reading that question.


Enough during the regular season. It's the postseason where he comes up empty. I can't stand the guy but I don't think he has totally feasted on chumps in non-clutch time.
Its no surprise that the SSA is a mess when they hire economists with pea brains.

#17 HAIL2BNG

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 03:43 PM

And to answer the thread topic: he will make the hall if and when they decide to let the steroid era guys in. He's one of those in my own column of "would have been a hall of famer of he didn't cheat".
Its no surprise that the SSA is a mess when they hire economists with pea brains.

#18 soulflower

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 03:57 PM

I agree, but it is a determining factor when the player in question has 10 years of stats that may ultimately be jaded by PED use.

HOF voters aren't held to the standards of criminal court. they aren't forced to make decisions based exclusively on hard evidence. he admitted to using PEDs for few years. if I'm a voter, I'm immediately asking myself, are these really the only years he was doping?


I honestly don't think he needed PEDs. Unlike Bonds, A-Rod's numbers were pretty consistent through most of his career. It's impossible to determine how much steroids helped his performance.

He was the best shortstop in baseball for the first 8 years of his career and ranks high among the best SS/3B to ever play the game.

In an era where PED bans basically weren't enforced, heck, some teams practically encouraged PED use, he was the best of the best.

For the steroid era, the voters should focus on how dominant a player was in his position rather than the numbers because most of the offensive numbers from that era are inflated for a number of reasons, including but not limited to steroids...

then I would starting thinking about what I know about him. for example, he has a history of running with his cousin since they were kids. I mentioned his cousin's reputation earlier in the thread. here's something else, his cousin and his friends (who are mutual friends of Alex) are also known for experimenting with PEDs in dogs and cocks for the purpose of creating super fighters.

none of this stuff would officially get him in touble with the league. he can't and shouldn't be fined or suspended for keeping bad company. but it can and will be used against him in the court of public opinion. and that's really what the HOF voters are.

these variable, coupled with what we saw earlier this month, I think he faces challenges getting into the Hall. if the writers aren't sure about Bonds and Clemens, I think they'll have even more issues with a guy who has lesser stats and an equally shady relationship with PEDs.


A-Rod shouldn't be treated any differently than any other player who is suspected of using PEDs. If they let Bonds and Clemens in, they will have to let A-Rod in...
"...reality has a well-known liberal bias"

#19 Far from home

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 08:16 PM

What media? Not even the NY media like A-Rod. And ESPN seems to have a vendetta against him as if he's personally responsible for PEDs in baseball.

I don't think he's going to retire anytime soon.

He certainly has HOF numbers but whether or not he gets in depends on whether Bonds, Clemens, or any other suspected PED users get into the HOF...


They have a vendetta against his behavior, not against him. They don't like his me-first style.
They haven't had a problem with his demeanor at all. This is unlike Barry, whom many sportswriters call an a-hole, and Clemens, who wore thin on sportswriters towards the end of his career.
Ideological gravy trains lead to poor decisions.
Learn from the last President, and make this next era one of rebuilding what has been torn down.
Instead of being loyal to your party, be loyal to your country and your people.

#20 Far from home

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 08:17 PM

And to answer the thread topic: he will make the hall if and when they decide to let the steroid era guys in. He's one of those in my own column of "would have been a hall of famer of he didn't cheat".


I think that's impossible to tell. I would like to think he didn't cheat from the beginning, but the reality is, outside of his 1st season, PEDs were largely legal in baseball during the beginning of his career.
Ideological gravy trains lead to poor decisions.
Learn from the last President, and make this next era one of rebuilding what has been torn down.
Instead of being loyal to your party, be loyal to your country and your people.




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