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Pickle20

Have the Ravens surpassed the Baltimore Colts legacy?

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The landscape is different now, but the Ravens have at least equalled the Colts, IMO.

 

They've won 2 SB's in 12 years, several more playoff appearances, they're collecting HoF players, and the fans are crazy about this team. Two non-sell outs since 1996.

 

Just the other day my dad was bemoaning the Colts leaving and wished it had worked out that the Colts name and history stayed in Baltimore. In a perfect world I agree but beyond that scenario, it's worked out the very best it could have.

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Colts left town when I was 3 so in my mind they really don't matter.

 

I think most fans are in this same situation. the Colts weren't a good team for a few years before they left, and it was a long time ago. I would imagine only a small percentage of the fanbase have been around long enough to have experienced the glory days of the colts, and this golden age of the Ravens.

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I think most fans are in this same situation. the Colts weren't a good team for a few years before they left, and it was a long time ago. I would imagine only a small percentage of the fanbase have been around long enough to have experienced the glory days of the colts, and this golden age of the Ravens.

 

lucky me, I have been around for both.....

 

the situation surrounding both teams and their legacies is different...the Colts players were really part of the community-- many stayed in town and worked for various companies since the salaries back then were peanuts. So for many fans, they had a real personal relationship with guys like Unitas, Donovan, Moore and many others....

 

The Ravens are a part of the community as well...many have charities and foundations, but usually leave after the season ends...the personal relationships aren't as deep as they were with the Colts....

 

where the two legacies are the same....Baltimore is back to being a football city...granted the Colts had it a little easier arriving in Baltimore around the same time as the O's...the Ravens had to earn their place as the best game in town (granted the ineptness of the O's helped)....

 

as those of us who were around for the Colts glory years fade away, the Raven's legacy will surpass the Colts. Right now the Colts are +1 in Chanpionships, but that won't last more than another decade or less....

 

I also believe that the Ravens will never find themselves at odds with the fans with an owner willing to stick his thumb in the fan's eyes at every opportunity...a history lesson learned....

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I think it depends on your age. I'm 52 and grew up across the street from Memorial stadium, some of my fondest memories are associated with the O's and the Colts at that stadium. It's a shame we didn't get to keep the name.

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I have no sentimental attachment to the Colts, I didn't pay attention to the team until 1977. My Ravens fandom comes from spending lots of time in the city, being an Orioles fan and having friends who live in Baltimore. Most of that happened post-1983.

 

But I say no, the Ravens haven't surpassed them.

 

The Colts won 3 championships in between 1958 and 1971 and played in 2 others (1965 NFCCG, SB III) The Ravens haven't done that yet. I realize the game and the postseason have both changed a lot since then, but that still counts for something in my book. Plus, they produced more all-time great players than the Ravens so far.

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I have no memory of the Colts, so for me, the Ravens are all that matter.

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Baltimore has both legacies, and that is awesome. One is not better than the other, one is just now and the other then. History happens and we (some of us) move on. While I'm old enough to remember the Baltimore Colts, I didn't live here then, and actually from where I was rooted against them generally, but I certainly get what they meant to the city. I personally am digging the hell out of our Ravens, a really exciting, interesting, championship team right here and now.

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It's not really a fair question. Baltimore will always have the Colts legacy. But as time passes so will the Colts memories. But regardless of how much time passesd and how many Super Bowls the Ravens win the Colts' accomplishments will always be what they are.

 

I was 15 when the Colts left. I was a fan, but not like I am now with the Ravens. For me now the Colts are just another NFL team that plays in Indy. I don't see them as Baltimore's ex-team anymore.

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There's no right answer. My 76 y.o. dad would say no, my 14 y.o. son would say yes, and I appreciate both equally.

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as those of us who were around for the Colts glory years fade away, the Raven's legacy will surpass the Colts. Right now the Colts are +1 in Chanpionships, but that won't last more than another decade or less....

 

....

 

Thumbs up to the entire post, but especuially this part.

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as others have said its going to depend on the fan. Many of us were too young to remember the colts. I'm 36 and can barely remember when they left town. My father taught me about the old colts and I appreciate them very much. And to hate Bob Irsay and what left for Indy that night. I have pictures of Gino Marchetti and Art Donovan right next to my pictures of Ray Rice and Joe Flacco in my man cave. My lucky Sunday game day t-shirt is a blue Unitas #19 shirt that I wear under my Ravens jersey.

 

So for me, the Colts are Baltimore football history that deserves to be remembered and celebrated. The Ravens are what is here now and deserves all the love and affection we once gave the Colts.

 

As more young fans start to over take the older guys like my father. The colts will one day be a distant memory. I think we need to make sure we preserve that history while celebrating the Ravens.

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I was born in 1990 so I have no memory of the Baltimore Colts. The Indy Irsays is the only incarnation of them that I've never known. I have a tremendous deal of respect for the old Baltimore Colts and what they meant to this city but having not experienced any of it myself I don't think it would be fair to answer that question

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Originally Posted by ivanbalt

Colts left town when I was 3 so in my mind they really don't matter.

 

THIS is what I'll never understand.

 

I'd like to think if I had the same experience (growing up strictly with the Ravens and having never known the Baltimore colts)..that I'd be savvy enough to appreciate what came before and it would matter a GREAT deal! Do you think that todays yankee fans don't appreciate Ruth, Gehrig, DiMaggio & Mantle and 27 rings?

 

Our football history is a unique situation caused by a drunk ("the devil on earth" proclaimed by his own mother no less) who made off with the logo and colors, don't continue to allow HIM to dictate OUR history and legacy...if you do, as a whole, we as a fan base and all the accomplishments are lesser for it. These remarks like "letting it go" or "get over them leaving" are dumb, pointless remarks because while some may be of the opinion that it would be better if the logo and colors never left..it doesn't matter and hasn't for 12 years. Guys like me who loved them rabidly CAN and DO love the Ravens equally! We just don't want their accomplishments and the Hall Of Famers pushed aside like some younger Ravens fans want, it's silly and counter productive. You can either want the Ravens tied to them or they'll be tied to their previous incarnation in cleveland.

 

It's really easy to view the Ravens as a continuation of the former team in different colors and logo....than to allow the continued division and deliniation that some younger fans seem to prefer. That's the way Johnny Unitas looked at it as he considered the Baltimore Ravens the rightful heirs to what his teams started and accomplished.

Is that so hard to grasp and understand?? That as a whole we are all better off this way??? The Baltimore colts died in March of '84, what the irsays do/did after that is none of our concern. The establishment of the Baltimore Ravens just breathed new life into what was already begun here, accept and embrace it...doing so doesn't require you to love an old and different logo and colors.

 

BALTIMORE is the team in the "big picture" and now we call them the Ravens!

 

Baltimore has 3 Super Bowl wins and 5 World Championships in the "modern era" (since '58)...not just two Super Bowls.

 

Again, our situation is unique and it wasn't our fault......wear it like a badge of honor, thats why I love having a Unitas Ravens jersey with my others. It's a pretty powerful and proud statement of our situation, outsiders think it's cool and great. Here we are sandwiched between some pretty powerful fan bases from dc, to pitt to philly...what we have carved out in this little niche is quite impressive...and growing!

 

 

Ravens Nation!

B)

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Get over it colts are gone just like jr high school girl friend So is cal Ripken mike mussenia and cheap gas

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Get over it colts are gone just like jr high school girl friend So is cal Ripken mike mussenia and cheap gas

 

As well as punctuation and grammar, apparently.

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I remember the Colts. I was 8 when they left. I had only been to one game...it was against Cincinatti...I didn't feel much for them.

 

...When I was at the parade last week screaming my head off, I thought about how much I loved the ravensteam and what they mean to the city and I wondered...is this how Colts fans felt about the Colts?

 

I couldn't imagine the Ravens leaving in the middle of the night... I'd be heartbroken. :(

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I remember the Colts. I was 8 when they left. I had only been to one game...it was against Cincinatti...I didn't feel much for them.

 

...When I was at the parade last week screaming my head off, I thought about how much I loved the ravensteam and what they mean to the city and I wondered...is this how Colts fans felt about the Colts?

 

I couldn't imagine the Ravens leaving in the middle of the night... I'd be heartbroken. :(

 

Thankfully we've got a great owner, a rabid fanbase and a stadium that should hold up for at least another 30 years. It's not a problem the city should ever face again.

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Do you think that todays yankee fans don't appreciate Ruth, Gehrig, DiMaggio & Mantle and 27 rings?

 

this doesn't seem like a good comparison because it's one team from start to finish and they didn't leave NY. a better example would be to ask if Mets fans tie their histoy to the Giants and Dodgers. do Philly fans tie the A's history to the Phillies, or does St Louis tie the Cardinals history to the Rams. I doubt any of these fan bases do that. as an O's fan, I don't attach the Birds to the StL Browns.

 

rest assured, no one is forgetting the Baltimore Colts. look at the discussions about putting up statues for the Colt HOFers. they are part of our collective conscious. but the Colts won't mean as much to younger fans, as they do to you and those who saw them play.

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THIS is what I'll never understand.

 

I'd like to think if I had the same experience (growing up strictly with the Ravens and having never known the Baltimore colts)..that I'd be savvy enough to appreciate what came before and it would matter a GREAT deal! Do you think that todays yankee fans don't appreciate Ruth, Gehrig, DiMaggio & Mantle and 27 rings?

 

Our football history is a unique situation caused by a drunk ("the devil on earth" proclaimed by his own mother no less) who made off with the logo and colors, don't continue to allow HIM to dictate OUR history and legacy...if you do, as a whole, we as a fan base and all the accomplishments are lesser for it. These remarks like "letting it go" or "get over them leaving" are dumb, pointless remarks because while some may be of the opinion that it would be better if the logo and colors never left..it doesn't matter and hasn't for 12 years. Guys like me who loved them rabidly CAN and DO love the Ravens equally! We just don't want their accomplishments and the Hall Of Famers pushed aside like some younger Ravens fans want, it's silly and counter productive. You can either want the Ravens tied to them or they'll be tied to their previous incarnation in cleveland.

 

It's really easy to view the Ravens as a continuation of the former team in different colors and logo....than to allow the continued division and deliniation that some younger fans seem to prefer. That's the way Johnny Unitas looked at it as he considered the Baltimore Ravens the rightful heirs to what his teams started and accomplished.

Is that so hard to grasp and understand?? That as a whole we are all better off this way??? The Baltimore colts died in March of '84, what the irsays do/did after that is none of our concern. The establishment of the Baltimore Ravens just breathed new life into what was already begun here, accept and embrace it...doing so doesn't require you to love an old and different logo and colors.

 

BALTIMORE is the team in the "big picture" and now we call them the Ravens!

 

Baltimore has 3 Super Bowl wins and 5 World Championships in the "modern era" (since '58)...not just two Super Bowls.

 

Again, our situation is unique and it wasn't our fault......wear it like a badge of honor, thats why I love having a Unitas Ravens jersey with my others. It's a pretty powerful and proud statement of our situation, outsiders think it's cool and great. Here we are sandwiched between some pretty powerful fan bases from dc, to pitt to philly...what we have carved out in this little niche is quite impressive...and growing!

 

 

Ravens Nation!

B)

 

nice post Marchetti

 

The BALTIMORE COLTS (1953-1983) 10 playoff appearances and 4 Championships (58,59,68 with the Super Bowl WIN coming in 1970/71

 

I'm 51 now....and remember Unitas during his later years....Super Bowl V..

Colts 16 Dallas 13

 

The tip pass from Johnny U to John Mackey....Jim Obriens straight ahead FG with time running out to win it. I will never forget it...

The heartbreaking loss to Willie Joe and the Jets. Weren't the Colts favored by like 3 TDS ?

 

And Artie Donovan...what a character.

The 75, 76 and 77 teams that won the division titles 3 straight years and got knocked out in the 1st round of the playoffs each time. Bert Jones with that cannon he had.

Stan White and hey diddle diddle Lydell "up the middle" Mitchell. Like Can You Hear Me Now stated in an earlier post. The players had 2nd jobs and pretty much were seen everywhere. My grandmother ran a sub shop uptown and the players would come in all the time. No problem getting autographs back then. They all seemed like regular guys...

 

I will never forget those players, the colors and the BIG BLUE horseshoe. Good times that I will cherish forever

 

 

But WE ARE now the Baltimore Ravens....

I am proud to be a Baltimore Colt and a Baltimore Raven fan forever

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Quote:

Originally Posted by weird-O

 

this doesn't seem like a good comparison because it's one team from start to finish and they didn't leave NY. a better example would be to ask if Mets fans tie their histoy to the Giants and Dodgers. do Philly fans tie the A's history to the Phillies, or does St Louis tie the Cardinals history to the Rams. I doubt any of these fan bases do that. as an O's fan, I don't attach the Birds to the StL Browns.

 

rest assured, no one is forgetting the Baltimore Colts. look at the discussions about putting up statues for the Colt HOFers. they are part of our collective conscious. but the Colts won't mean as much to younger fans, as they do to you and those who saw them play.

I wasn't trying to "compare" because we are unique, it was just an example of appreciating your past, nothing more.

Also, just because the other cities do something doesn't make it a rule!

I would never let Brooklyn, philly, st louis dictate what we do, how we feel about our legacy. Just because they don't do something doesn't mean we have to follow their lead.

 

You missed my Point as that was precisely what I was addressing and the example I used was for precisely that, even though they never saw them play it's ok to embrace it. I certainly don't expect them to embrace it as I do but there's no reason to "ignore" it as some want to. I've consistantly been out in front on that.

 

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pickle20

Thankfully we've got a great owner, a rabid fanbase and a stadium that should hold up for at least another 30 years. It's not a problem the city should ever face again.

 

"those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it"

The rabid fan base is nothing new here hence the phrase "The World's Largest Outdoor Insane Asylum", the great owner however is refreshingly new. Any drop in attendance for the old team was directly due to his constantly (over a period of 10 years) sticking his thumb in the collective eyes of a rabid and supportive fan base who didn't give up on the team but were pushed away by the owner and his lack of respect for and his dismantling of a once proud franchise.

Never say never.

Things "could" (probably won't but we know better, they "could"...) change. We most likely should never face it again....BUT, if we did, who here would want Jonathan Ogden and Ray Lewis to be treated as we are treating Lenny Moore and Jim Parker?

No one!

B)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by weird-O

 

this doesn't seem like a good comparison because it's one team from start to finish and they didn't leave NY. a better example would be to ask if Mets fans tie their histoy to the Giants and Dodgers. do Philly fans tie the A's history to the Phillies, or does St Louis tie the Cardinals history to the Rams. I doubt any of these fan bases do that. as an O's fan, I don't attach the Birds to the StL Browns.

 

rest assured, no one is forgetting the Baltimore Colts. look at the discussions about putting up statues for the Colt HOFers. they are part of our collective conscious. but the Colts won't mean as much to younger fans, as they do to you and those who saw them play./QUOTE]

I wasn't trying to "compare" because we are unique, it was just an example of appreciating your past, nothing more.

Also, just because the other cities do something doesn't make it a rule!

I would never let Brooklyn, philly, st louis dictate what we do, how we feel about our legacy. Just because they don't do something doesn't mean we have to follow their lead.

 

You missed my Point as that was precisely what I was addressing and the example I used was for precisely that, even though they never saw them play it's ok to embrace it. I certainly don't expect them to embrace it as I do but there's no reason to "ignore" it as some want to. I've consistantly been out in front on that.

 

 

 

 

 

"those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it"

The rabid fan base is nothing new here hence the phrase "The World's Largest Outdoor Insane Asylum", the great owner however is refreshingly new. Any drop in attendance for the old team was directly due to his constantly (over a period of 10 years) sticking his thumb in the collective eyes of a rabid and supportive fan base who didn't give up on the team but were pushed away by the owner and his lack of respect for and his dismantling of a once proud franchise.

Never say never.

Things "could" (probably won't but we know better, they "could"...) change. We most likely should never face it again....BUT, if we did, who here would want Jonathan Ogden and Ray Lewis to be treated as we are treating Lenny Moore and Jim Parker?

No one!

B)

 

lots of points made here, but the biggest is that you seems to be running into people who, from your description of the situation, are practically demanding that we push aside the Baltimore Colts and lock away that era.

 

that's terrible. I'm glad I haven't had anyone express that sentiment around me. I guess I'm hanging out with the right folks ;)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by weird-O

 

this doesn't seem like a good comparison because it's one team from start to finish and they didn't leave NY. a better example would be to ask if Mets fans tie their histoy to the Giants and Dodgers. do Philly fans tie the A's history to the Phillies, or does St Louis tie the Cardinals history to the Rams. I doubt any of these fan bases do that. as an O's fan, I don't attach the Birds to the StL Browns.

 

rest assured, no one is forgetting the Baltimore Colts. look at the discussions about putting up statues for the Colt HOFers. they are part of our collective conscious. but the Colts won't mean as much to younger fans, as they do to you and those who saw them play./QUOTE]

I wasn't trying to "compare" because we are unique, it was just an example of appreciating your past, nothing more.

Also, just because the other cities do something doesn't make it a rule!

I would never let Brooklyn, philly, st louis dictate what we do, how we feel about our legacy. Just because they don't do something doesn't mean we have to follow their lead.

 

You missed my Point as that was precisely what I was addressing and the example I used was for precisely that, even though they never saw them play it's ok to embrace it. I certainly don't expect them to embrace it as I do but there's no reason to "ignore" it as some want to. I've consistantly been out in front on that.

 

 

 

 

 

"those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it"

The rabid fan base is nothing new here hence the phrase "The World's Largest Outdoor Insane Asylum", the great owner however is refreshingly new. Any drop in attendance for the old team was directly due to his constantly (over a period of 10 years) sticking his thumb in the collective eyes of a rabid and supportive fan base who didn't give up on the team but were pushed away by the owner and his lack of respect for and his dismantling of a once proud franchise.

Never say never.

Things "could" (probably won't but we know better, they "could"...) change. We most likely should never face it again....BUT, if we did, who here would want Jonathan Ogden and Ray Lewis to be treated as we are treating Lenny Moore and Jim Parker?

No one!

B)

How are we treating Lenny Moore and Jim Parker exactly?? Didn't Lenny Moore get a free trip to the Super Bowl?

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