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Baltimatt

Washington State AG sues florist for refusing to provide flowers to gay wedding

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I disagree. Private business should have to do business with everyone. What if I'm the only gas station in a small town. Can I refuse to sell you gas because I don't like the name "TommyT"? Can a doctor refuse service when someone comes in with a broken leg? Can a grocery store refuse service during a blizzard because the owner doesn't like gay people? If a gay couple calls a plumber because their basement of flooded can he refuse service? Where do you draw the line on who can and can't refuse service.

 

I'm a catholic with 12 years of catholic school. I've never once been told by a teacher or priest that I should refuse service to a certain group of people. That's between God and the person asking for service, not me.

 

I wouldn't want to give money to anybody that wanted to refuse service to me. Go somewhere else. In the past I've been to establishments that treated me like crap. My solution was to never go back and pass the word around to others. 

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That concluded in the mid-sixties, so my experiences in the 1958-63 period probably was something of the norm for the time.

Perhaps but you are suggesting that over 50 years later it is a valid basis to evade public accomadation laws. It is essentially an invalid comparison.

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Perhaps but you are suggesting that over 50 years later it is a valid basis to evade public accomadation laws. It is essentially an invalid comparison.

No I think I agreed that the Catholic comparison was invalidated by the changes in Church doctrine since that time. No being Catholic myself I hadn't kept up with those changes until they were pointed out by a couple of folks. 

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I disagree. Private business should have to do business with everyone. What if I'm the only gas station in a small town. Can I refuse to sell you gas because I don't like the name "TommyT"? Can a doctor refuse service when someone comes in with a broken leg? Can a grocery store refuse service during a blizzard because the owner doesn't like gay people? If a gay couple calls a plumber because their basement of flooded can he refuse service? Where do you draw the line on who can and can't refuse service.

 

I'm a catholic with 12 years of catholic school. I've never once been told by a teacher or priest that I should refuse service to a certain group of people. That's between God and the person asking for service, not me.

Can a restaurant refuse service to shirtless barefoot people?

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Can a restaurant refuse service to shirtless barefoot people?

That's a health code issue

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That's a health code issue

In some jurisdictions it might be, but certainly not all.  Obviously, you can buy a cheeseburger at a beach cabana while wearing only your speedo.  

 

The bottom line is that we don't require all businesses to serve everyone.  A restaurant can deny service to someone in shorts, or to someone not wearing a tie, as well.  Posh nightclubs can deny entry on your looks alone.  

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In some jurisdictions it might be, but certainly not all. Obviously, you can buy a cheeseburger at a beach cabana while wearing only your speedo.

 

The bottom line is that we don't require all businesses to serve everyone. A restaurant can deny service to someone in shorts, or to someone not wearing a tie, as well. Posh nightclubs can deny entry on your looks alone.

First enforcing a health code is not descriminating. Public accomadation s can't discriminate.

 

A dress code is not descr Minaring. Those are things you can change.

Edited by jtowne-swim

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Can a restaurant refuse service to shirtless barefoot people?

 

You actually want to debate the difference between refusing service to a group of people based on their sexual orientation versus people who don't abide by a dress code?

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You actually want to debate the difference between refusing service to a group of people based on their sexual orientation versus people who don't abide by a dress code?

No.  Just trying to show that there are limits so we can debate where they should be set and whether a business owner should be allowed to set them, or if we need the Federal government involved.  

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No.  Just trying to show that there are limits so we can debate where they should be set and whether a business owner should be allowed to set them, or if we need the Federal government involved.  

The federal government set them back in 1964.  States and localities have also set them.

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No.  Just trying to show that there are limits so we can debate where they should be set and whether a business owner should be allowed to set them, or if we need the Federal government involved.  

 

The example you gave isn't a civil rights violation. Let's go through a few examples...

 

My basement floods and I call a plumber. The plumber comes out and and somehow detects my basement is flooded with carbon monoxide. He refuses to service my house. Civil Rights violation?

 

That same plumber is called to fix a leaking pipe in another house. The plumber shows up at the house and thinks the owner is gay. He refuses to fix the pipe. Civil Rights violation?

 

I'm sure in the second example some would say the home owner could just call another plumber, right? But if you've ever had a leaking pipe, broken sump pump and a flooded basement then you know time is crucial. Also, what if it's 3am and he's the only plumber you can get a hold of at the moment? The point is if a bakery can refuse to bake a cake, then where do you draw the line? Allowing a business to say no based on race or sexual orientation opens up a dangerous precedent.

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The example you gave isn't a civil rights violation. Let's go through a few examples...

 

My basement floods and I call a plumber. The plumber comes out and and somehow detects my basement is flooded with carbon monoxide. He refuses to service my house. Civil Rights violation?

 

That same plumber is called to fix a leaking pipe in another house. The plumber shows up at the house and thinks the owner is gay. He refuses to fix the pipe. Civil Rights violation?

 

I'm sure in the second example some would say the home owner could just call another plumber, right? But if you've ever had a leaking pipe, broken sump pump and a flooded basement then you know time is crucial. Also, what if it's 3am and he's the only plumber you can get a hold of at the moment? The point is if a bakery can refuse to bake a cake, then where do you draw the line? Allowing a business to say no based on race or sexual orientation opens up a dangerous precedent.

 

The first plumber is smart.  The second. stupid.  Does the Fed need to involve themselves in either case?

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The first plumber is smart.  The second. stupid.  Does the Fed need to involve themselves in either case?

The federal government does not prohibit discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation.

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The first plumber is smart.  The second. stupid.  Does the Fed need to involve themselves in either case?

 

The first case no. The second case yes. Federal Law should prohibit a business to refuse service based on sexual orientation. (I'm not saying there is currently a law. I'm saying this should be law.)

Edited by Fang

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