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Washington State AG sues florist for refusing to provide flowers to gay wedding


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#41 Papi

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 08:07 AM

A taxi driver can't deny a ride because the person is black, or because the fare is a gay couple.

 

Why should taking pictures for hire be any different than providing a ride for hire?

 

[ Hint: it's not, under the law ]

So you think attending a same sex wedding is just the same as driving a gay couple in a taxi, from the point of view of the free exercise of religious beliefs? That is a profoundly ignorant comparison. 



#42 karlydee2

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 08:07 AM

They can say they disagree with their politics and refuse to play/photograph at the wedding just like the artists who refused to play at Trumps inaugural events. If they can refuse for political reasons then so should anyone else.

 

1. How would they know their politics?

 

2. I was unaware that Moby's primary activity was as a DJ for weddings.

 

3. Does the DOC have a law that defines a public accomodation the same way Washington State does?

 

4. It would be easier to just say they have a potential booking conflict.



#43 Papi

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 08:09 AM

So clueless.

Sometimes you do seem that way professor. But of course the free exercise of religion is something that liberals like you only want to allow when the religious beliefs don't conflict with your political agenda. 



#44 michiganjoe

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 08:10 AM

A protected class under state law and not even a close call legally.



#45 Smokey 1

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 08:11 AM

1. How would they know their politics?

 

2. I was unaware that Moby's primary activity was as a DJ for weddings.

 

3. Does the DOC have a law that defines a public accomodation the same way Washington State does?

 

4. It would be easier to just say they have a potential booking conflict.

 

Yes, that too.  They should never claim it was because the couple is gay.

 

Forcing someone to perform at an event that they oppose for whatever reason borders on involuntary servitude.



#46 Baltimatt

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 08:22 AM

So you think attending a same sex wedding is just the same as driving a gay couple in a taxi, from the point of view of the free exercise of religious beliefs? That is a profoundly ignorant comparison.


What's so different about attending a same-sex wedding as opposed to any other wedding? Could one refuse to do a Catholic or Jewish or Muslim wedding?
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#47 Papi

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 08:35 AM

What's so different about attending a same-sex wedding as opposed to any other wedding? Could one refuse to do a Catholic or Jewish or Muslim wedding?

A devout Catholic is not permitted to enter any church other than a Catholic sanctuary, so a Catholic photographer would be barred by his/her religion from stepping foot inside a temple, a Mosque, or a Protestant church for any kind of wedding. Should such a person be prosecuted for following the tenants of Catholicism and refusing to participate in a straight wedding?

 

I have personally known Catholics who felt they could not attend a friend's funeral service because it was being held in a Protestant church. Even though this particular tenant of the Catholic church may not be widely followed by all Catholics, it still exists (or did at the time that I had that experience). What seems silly to many of us can be a closely held belief by others, and in my humble opinion a person's beliefs should be respected and not forced to be ignored. 



#48 workerbee

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 08:35 AM

Good Lord!  Agree to do the wedding for free and let them know that bibles and Christian tracks will be front and center on the wedding table.  DONE1


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#49 Baltimatt

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 08:44 AM

Christian tracks?
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#50 Baltimatt

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 08:48 AM

A devout Catholic is not permitted to enter any church other than a Catholic sanctuary, so a Catholic photographer would be barred by his/her religion from stepping foot inside a temple, a Mosque, or a Protestant church for any kind of wedding. Should such a person be prosecuted for following the tenants of Catholicism and refusing to participate in a straight wedding?
 
I have personally known Catholics who felt they could not attend a friend's funeral service because it was being held in a Protestant church. Even though this particular tenant of the Catholic church may not be widely followed by all Catholics, it still exists (or did at the time that I had that experience). What seems silly to many of us can be a closely held belief by others, and in my humble opinion a person's beliefs should be respected and not forced to be ignored.


And some Jews will not enter a church.

Sounds like those folks are in the wrong business if they purport to provide wedding services.
Dieser Weg wird kein leichter sein; dieser Weg wird steinig und schwer.
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#51 Baltimatt

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 08:49 AM

Maybe a Jewish caterer can leave little "Jesus is not the Messiah" tracts at a Christian wedding.
Dieser Weg wird kein leichter sein; dieser Weg wird steinig und schwer.
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#52 Papi

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 08:54 AM

And some Jews will not enter a church.

Sounds like those folks are in the wrong business if they purport to provide wedding services.

Should a Jewish caterer be forced to roast a pig at a wedding reception? Or be taken to court for refusing? 

 

You see how silly this whole thing becomes. Why can't public accomodation laws be exercised with a dose of common sense? Or at least a dose of actual tolerance towards the beliefs of others.


Edited by Papi, 17 February 2017 - 08:55 AM.


#53 workerbee

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 08:57 AM

Maybe a Jewish caterer can leave little "Jesus is not the Messiah" tracts at a Christian wedding.

It's called freedom of speech.  Read about it somewhere.  Don't like the message... don't contract with the messenger.  Done!


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#54 workerbee

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 08:58 AM

Should a Jewish caterer be forced to roast a pig at a wedding reception? Or be taken to court for refusing? 

 

You see how silly this whole thing becomes. Why can't public accomodation laws be exercised with a dose of common sense? Or at least a dose of actual tolerance towards the beliefs of others.

Because, more than likely, humans will abuse that freedom too.  It's what we do.


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#55 Baltimatt

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 09:01 AM

Should a Jewish caterer be forced to roast a pig at a wedding reception? Or be taken to court for refusing?

You see how silly this whole thing becomes. Why can't public accomodation laws be exercised with a dose of common sense? Or at least a dose of actual tolerance towards the beliefs of others.

Jewish caterers generally don't have pork on their menu. You can't force somebody to provide a service they don't offer.

Edited by Baltimatt, 17 February 2017 - 09:01 AM.

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#56 Calamari

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 09:02 AM

Uh they actually are free to deny service, as long as they do so as a private club. That more people don't do that shows you what a great deal public accommodation is.


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#57 Papi

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 01:49 PM

Jewish caterers generally don't have pork on their menu. You can't force somebody to provide a service they don't offer.

But they generally don't offer pork for religious reasons. Why is that protected but forcing some other religious denials of a particular service not protected? The issue is indeed a murky one. 



#58 Baltimatt

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 01:54 PM

But they generally don't offer pork for religious reasons. Why is that protected but forcing some other religious denials of a particular service not protected? The issue is indeed a murky one.


The Jewish or Muslim caterer would not provide pork to anyone. That's not discrimination as defined by the law in question.
Dieser Weg wird kein leichter sein; dieser Weg wird steinig und schwer.
Nicht mit vielen wirst du dir einig sein, doch dieses Leben bietet so viel mehr. --Xavier Naidoo

#59 Papi

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 02:11 PM

The Jewish or Muslim caterer would not provide pork to anyone. That's not discrimination as defined by the law in question.

But could a Catholic photographer be sued for refusing to enter a Protestant church to take pictures for a wedding between a man and a woman? That's the kind of murkiness I am describing. Under the current climate of people wanting to sue other people for perceived discrimination I could see that happening, sadly. 



#60 jdsample

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 02:41 PM

At the risk of echoing what others have said, gays and those sympathetic to the cause should boycott the store, not insist on giving them their hard-earned dollars.  

And how did the issue of "gayness" come up?  Call the store and place an order.  Done.  None of their damn business what the occasion is.  Did someone make a point of telling them?  Why?

 

And as a business owner, I think the flower shop owners are stupid.  Even if you think gayness is a sin, there isn't any prohibition to sell flowers to sinners.  Every one of your customers is a sinner.  Every one of mine is a sinner.  But we invite them in and hope they give us favorable ratings on Yelp, Google, and yes, The Gayborhood.


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