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A Good Baseball Manager Sticks with His Guys


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#1 Alina Poe

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 01:39 PM

Here is a great example.

http://blog.sfgate.c...-todays-lineup/

This is not to say that at some point, you need to make a change like Bochy finally did last year toward the end of the season sending Lincecum to the bullpen, where he preformed well and helped the Giants win the championship. But, despite everyone calling for his head, I say that a manager is much better off erring on the side of sticking with a proven guy who is having problems than yanking him at the first sign of trouble. Also, as fans, I think we need to be a little more aware that these managers with a proven track record, guys like Buck and Boch, are closer to the situation and more knowledgeable than we are, as well as being less prone to panic than fans are. Yesterday, people were saying that it was must win situation situation. Are you kidding me? Despite being swept, the O's are about as well positioned in the Wild Card as they were after going 5-2 on the road trip leaving SF. The A's just lost two heartbreaking games at home to the Astros! That's baseball. Maddening!

Buck Showalter helped completely turn this franchise around. Give the man some slack.

#2 Struds

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 01:56 PM

Here is a great example.

http://blog.sfgate.c...-todays-lineup/

This is not to say that at some point, you need to make a change like Bochy finally did last year toward the end of the season sending Lincecum to the bullpen, where he preformed well and helped the Giants win the championship. But, despite everyone calling for his head, I say that a manager is much better off erring on the side of sticking with a proven guy who is having problems than yanking him at the first sign of trouble. Also, as fans, I think we need to be a little more aware that these managers with a proven track record, guys like Buck and Boch, are closer to the situation and more knowledgeable than we are, as well as being less prone to panic than fans are. Yesterday, people were saying that it was must win situation situation. Are you kidding me? Despite being swept, the O's are about as well positioned in the Wild Card as they were after going 5-2 on the road trip leaving SF. The A's just lost two heartbreaking games at home to the Astros! That's baseball. Maddening!

Buck Showalter helped completely turn this franchise around. Give the man some slack.


You write as if you believe the problem with JJ just started on this road trip, i.e. "first sign of trouble". That's not even close to true. I think JJ's first slump started sometime around Memorial Day weekend. If you went far enough back in the thread about needing a closer, you'd see that some of us stuck with JJ through the first couple of slumps and only started to question continuing to use him when more slumps occured.

And, of course Buck knows more than any of us and is closer to the situation. That's so obvious it didn't need to be said. But, like someone told you in the other thread, in essence we fans pay these guys' enormous salaries, and to an extent, that certainly entitles us to complain and question what the team is doing. If we turn out to be wrong, we'll gladly celebrate and (at least most of us) will happily admit we were wrong.

#3 bmore_ken

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 02:09 PM

I guess this is going to be the main topic on the board until JJ saves another 5 in a row

#4 Slidemaster

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 02:17 PM

Buck sticking with his guys has cost the team 9 wins. At this point he needs to stick with the guys who can do the friggin job. I have no patience for hurt feelings in a game where people are being paid millions to throw and hit a ball. Win or go home.

#5 BayAreaBmore

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 02:29 PM

Sounds like you are happy and content to settle for a wild card berth. A wild card berth would be incredible... But for most of us, heading into that AZ series, we all still had our eyes on winning the Division... And I will still contend that yesterday's game was a must win game as far as making that more of a likely possibility.

And I've already said my bit about cutting these overpaid professional athletes some slack in the Need to find a Closer thread so I'll leave that alone.

#6 LarryN

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 03:05 PM

Despite being swept, the O's are about as well positioned in the Wild Card as they were after going 5-2 on the road trip leaving SF. The A's just lost two heartbreaking games at home to the Astros! That's baseball. Maddening!

Buck Showalter helped completely turn this franchise around. Give the man some slack.



Just think how much better positioned they would be in the wild card race had Buck not kept going to Johnson when he clearly doesn't have it any more. And forget the wild card, had Johnson merely been average, rather than bad, the Orioles would be leading the division.

http://espn.go.com/b...valuable-player

The Orioles have now lost nine games they led heading into the ninth -- the major league average is fewer than three. Considering their bullpen is 20-18 overall and Johnson is 3-7, you can make an argument that no player has hurt his team as much as Johnson.


....if the Orioles had average results from Johnson -- three lost games in the ninth instead of nine -- they'd be 71-49 instead of 65-55 ... and tied for the AL East lead instead of trailing the Red Sox by 6 games. They've been a good team for eight innings, a terrible team for one.



#7 bmore_ken

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 03:59 PM

so those are guaranteed wins if Johnson isn't brought in?

#8 LarryN

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 04:17 PM

so those are guaranteed wins if Johnson isn't brought in?


HAD he been league average and only blown three instead of nine. Yes, HAD he been league average, those would have been extra wins. The fact is, he was brought in.

#9 SNAFU

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 04:32 PM

Buck Showalter helped completely turn this franchise around. Give the man some slack.


We gave him some slack back in May during the first Johnson meltdown. We thought he'd see the error of his ways. But, he hasn't changed one bit. It's hard to keep giving him slack when he keeps doing things the same way expecting different results. I think they're calling it the 'insanity card' these days.

#10 bawlmer_fan

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 04:43 PM

so those are guaranteed wins if Johnson isn't brought in?


at least four of those games, he was no where near finding the plate. so ill go out on a limb and say, "yeah."

#11 Slidemaster

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 04:45 PM

at least four of those games, he was no where near finding the plate. so ill go out on a limb and say, "yeah."


3 or 4 of them were saves he blew with a 2 or 3 run lead.

#12 durango46

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 05:47 PM

define proven guy please ?

2011 9 saves
2012 breakout season
2013 command is off and he's blowing saves

#13 ivanbalt

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 05:29 AM

9 blown saves is too many no matter how much he's been used. He's often iffy when he does get the save. I defended him all season, but it's August so they need to try something else.

#14 weird-O

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 07:09 AM

3 or 4 of them were saves he blew with a 2 or 3 run lead.


those are the games that really sting.

the closer is pretty much always the best relief pitcher on the staff. I don't think Johnson qualifies as the best reliever the O's have.

#15 weird-O

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 07:13 AM

9 blown saves is too many no matter how much he's been used. He's often iffy when he does get the save. I defended him all season, but it's August so they need to try something else.


this is a great point.

he has very few 1-2-3 innings. and he usually lets batters get into scoring position

#16 Alina Poe

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 08:20 AM

The major point I am making is that Bochy stuck with Lincecum longer than Buck is sticking with JJ and it resulted in Timmy becoming an integral part of the Giants' championship run. But the other point is that, yes, at some point you need to make a change and I would agree that we are about to reach that point.

#17 weird-O

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 08:42 AM

The major point I am making is that Bochy stuck with Lincecum longer than Buck is sticking with JJ and it resulted in Timmy becoming an integral part of the Giants' championship run. But the other point is that, yes, at some point you need to make a change and I would agree that we are about to reach that point.


you seem to think you're making a strong case for not moving JJ out of the closer role, by using Bochy & Lincecum to support your position. except that it actually supports the opposite position. Bochy moved TL to the BP. and what most folks are suggesting is that JJ be moved to middle relief duties. your Giants example would only support your opinion if Bochy had kept TL in the starting rotation.

#18 Gizmo

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 10:17 AM

this is a great point.

he has very few 1-2-3 innings. and he usually lets batters get into scoring position


"Another 2 base runners on save" - ™

#19 Mr. Buzzcut

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 02:15 PM

"Another 2 base runners on save" - ™


Hey, that sounds familiar! ;)

#20 durango46

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 08:09 PM

this ship is sinking fast




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