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How are the Orioles 9 games over .500?


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#1 Rob

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 12:36 AM

Looking around baseball, I see that almost every team that has given up as many runs as the Orioles this year are nowhere near the .500 mark, let alone 9 games over .500. We should be thrilled to even be having a winning season with the terrible pitching we've had this year. Here's a look at the teams that have given up over 600 runs and their season records:

[b]
Teams that have allowed 600+ runs:

Houston         (732) (45-93)
Toronto         (665) (64-75)
Philadelphia    (645) (63-76)
Seattle         (639) (62-76)
LA Angels       (637) (64-73)
Colorado        (630) (65-75)
Minnesota       (623) (61-76)
San Diego       (617) (62-76)
BALTIMORE       (608) (73-64)
Milwaukee       (608) (59-79)
San Francisco   (604) (61-77) [/b]

The Orioles #1 priority this offseason has to be to upgrade their starting rotation and bullpen. They also need a closer that doesn't suck. :)

#2 weird-O

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 06:45 AM

I think the PB is fine. overall, they have several good pitchers. the problem is that they have needed to pitch 4 innings a night. no PB can handle that workload. the problem with the rotation isn't with the current version. the problem was spending 2 months hoping Arietta would put it together. or thinking that Britton would replicate that great month of two that he has 3 season ago. they're about to make that same mistake again, by letting him start tonight. it also hurt that Chen was on the DL for 2 months. if the O's had Tillman, Gonzo, Chen, Norris & Feldman all season, they would be in a much better position than they are today. if they replace Feldman with a qualified #2 pitcher this winter, they'll be fine in '14.

#3 bmore_ken

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 06:54 AM

Looking around baseball, I see that almost every team that has given up as many runs as the Orioles this year are nowhere near the .500 mark, let alone 9 games over .500. We should be thrilled to even be having a winning season with the terrible pitching we've had this year. Here's a look at the teams that have given up over 600 runs and their season records:

[b]

Teams that have allowed 600+ runs:

Houston         (732) (45-93)
Toronto         (665) (64-75)
Philadelphia    (645) (63-76)
Seattle         (639) (62-76)
LA Angels       (637) (64-73)
Colorado        (630) (65-75)
Minnesota       (623) (61-76)
San Diego       (617) (62-76)
BALTIMORE       (608) (73-64)
Milwaukee       (608) (59-79)
San Francisco   (604) (61-77) [/b]

The Orioles #1 priority this offseason has to be to upgrade their starting rotation and bullpen. They also need a closer that doesn't suck. :)


It just might have something to do with the fact that they're 4th in MLB in BA, 1st in HRs, 3rd in Total bases

#4 justforfun

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 07:50 AM

I think that the baseball world went from a 4 man rotation to a 5 man rotation. It is time for baseball to go to the next step. Go to a 9 man rotation. Each pitcher will work 3 innings a game and have a lefty specialist and set up plus closer. These guys would work every 3 days and rotate who starts. This keeps their arms fresh and they only need two pitches to be good.

#5 Struds

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 07:50 AM

It just might have something to do with the fact that they're 4th in MLB in BA, 1st in HRs, 3rd in Total bases


Yeah, that might help explain it. :D

The remarkable team defense has contributed as well. That 608 runs allowed could easily have been a lot more without it.

#6 LarryN

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 08:09 AM

I think that the baseball world went from a 4 man rotation to a 5 man rotation. It is time for baseball to go to the next step. Go to a 9 man rotation. Each pitcher will work 3 innings a game and have a lefty specialist and set up plus closer. These guys would work every 3 days and rotate who starts. This keeps their arms fresh and they only need two pitches to be good.


Oddly, we agree. I don't think it will be long ( a couple decades, maybe) before the concept of the "starter" is gone. Just have a pool of pitchers and use them as "the book" prescribes. But the closer? Sadly, I think that's here forever.

#7 hector

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 08:22 AM

May I suggest that fellow and lady posters consider the obvious before self-immersion in meaningless stats? The O's starters have a higher ERA than some other teams because they pitch in a very small ballpark called Camden Yards. If they pitched in places like Oakland, Seattle, San Francisco and Detroit, their ERA would be a run or so lower.

#8 weird-O

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 08:33 AM

Oddly, we agree. I don't think it will be long ( a couple decades, maybe) before the concept of the "starter" is gone. Just have a pool of pitchers and use them as "the book" prescribes. But the closer? Sadly, I think that's here forever.


Colorado tried using a 4 man rotation with a strict 75 pitch count per game. they abandoned it after just 1 season. if there's ever an evolution to the concept of a starting pitcher/rotation, it will be a long slow one. baseball doesn't like change. unless a manager or club comes up with a revolutionary idea, and it works immediately and almost never fails, the sport will scoff at it.

I've actually heard more conversations about the closer role changing. the idea is to use the closer throughout the back half of the game to shut down threats. analysts agree that they would still need to be paid closer money, or the union would fight it. one analyst put it like this. sign the closer to the market rate contract, but before he signs, let him know that he will be used at various times of the game. he won't be a spectator for innings 1-8. I like the idea, aside from a handful of very rare exceptions, it's ridiculous to think that 1 pitcher is the right pitcher for every situation.

#9 Struds

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 08:37 AM

May I suggest that fellow and lady posters consider the obvious before self-immersion in meaningless stats? The O's starters have a higher ERA than some other teams because they pitch in a very small ballpark called Camden Yards. If they pitched in places like Oakland, Seattle, San Francisco and Detroit, their ERA would be a run or so lower.


Based on the stat I saw during last night's game showing HRs allowed by Tillman home and away, I believe you are absolutely correct. So the O's need not just a #1 starter, but one whose tendency is to get a lot of groundballs.

#10 weird-O

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 08:45 AM

Based on the stat I saw during last night's game showing HRs allowed by Tillman home and away, I believe you are absolutely correct. So the O's need not just a #1 starter, but one whose tendency is to get a lot of groundballs.


5 sinkerballers would be ideal. I always refer to Scott Erickson. he was tailor made for the Yard. another plus is that he was better when he was working on short rest. there's not too many of those guys left anymore.

#11 Rob

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 11:27 AM

Yeah... it seems all of our starters are prone to giving up the long ball.

#12 hector

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 12:34 PM

Based on the stat I saw during last night's game showing HRs allowed by Tillman home and away, I believe you are absolutely correct. So the O's need not just a #1 starter, but one whose tendency is to get a lot of groundballs.


Instead of focusing on ground ball pitchers, a more sensible approach would be for O's fans and management to accept the fact that Camden Yards adds a run or so to an ERA over the course of a season and quit de-valuing O's starters with a false comparison to starters on other teams that pitch in much bigger ballparks.

#13 Agrippa

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 09:06 PM

May I suggest that fellow and lady posters consider the obvious before self-immersion in meaningless stats? The O's starters have a higher ERA than some other teams because they pitch in a very small ballpark called Camden Yards. If they pitched in places like Oakland, Seattle, San Francisco and Detroit, their ERA would be a run or so lower.


Of the 608 runs given up 304 of them were given up at home, how many we're given up on the road?

Orioles are a mediocre team with the worst ownership in baseball, terrible scouting and player development. they're lucky to finish with a winning record, but they won't make the playoffs

#14 Grindelwald

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 09:46 PM

It just might have something to do with the fact that they're 4th in MLB in BA, 1st in HRs, 3rd in Total bases


And that we have one of the best defensive teams, ever.

#15 Agrippa

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 09:53 PM

And that we have one of the best defensive teams, ever.


AllStars in the outfield, AllStars in the infield, the best catcher in the game and a closer with more saves in the past couple of years than all most anyone. A great manager and a pretty ball park. What does that get you?

4th place in the East and 5th place in the wildcard.

#16 hector

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 03:11 AM

Of the 608 runs given up 304 of them were given up at home, how many we're given up on the road?

Orioles are a mediocre team with the worst ownership in baseball, terrible scouting and player development. they're lucky to finish with a winning record, but they won't make the playoffs


More useless stats in a failed attempt to make an invalid point. Surely you agree that teams that play in small ballparks give up and score more runs than would be the case if they played in a bigger ballpark.

#17 jamesdean

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 04:47 AM

From a statistical perspective, the Orioles are a very good hitting team. They are also a very undisciplined group of hitters that will be prone to slumps. But the biggest difference this year is the simple fact the pitching hasn't been as good as last year. They just haven't been good enough. The Orioles are a decent team who will probably come in around 86-88 wins and miss the play-offs. I noticed a few of the posters were mentioning the need for ground ball pitchers and it's something I've been harping on all season. It's almost a crime to have the best defensive infield in baseball and give up homeruns at the rate this staff does. Camden Yards is death to fly ball pitchers and that's about all this team has. Obviously, the ridiculous dimensions of this ball park adds to E.R.A.'s but conversely, if you get pitchers who can keep the ball on the ground, they're individual stats would improve with this defense. Either find some pitchers who can do that or get a coach who knows how to teach a sinker ball. Otherwise, this team is going nowhere.

#18 weird-O

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 07:13 AM

AllStars in the outfield, AllStars in the infield, the best catcher in the game and a closer with more saves in the past couple of years than all most anyone. A great manager and a pretty ball park. What does that get you?

4th place in the East and 5th place in the wildcard.


who is that guy in your avatar?

#19 weenie

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 08:23 AM

5 sinkerballers would be ideal. I always refer to Scott Erickson. he was tailor made for the Yard. another plus is that he was better when he was working on short rest. there's not too many of those guys left anymore.


The mention of Erickson got me thinking. When he was around, the story told was his sinker got better as he tired. Do all sinker ballers see their balls sink better as their arms tire? That got me thinking about Britton. Is his problem lack of work? His numbers on regular rest down at Norfolk in August were pretty decent (2.46 ERA was mentioned in the Sun). Could Britton's abysmal performance last night be due to lack of work?

#20 weird-O

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 08:49 AM

The mention of Erickson got me thinking. When he was around, the story told was his sinker got better as he tired. Do all sinker ballers see their balls sink better as their arms tire? That got me thinking about Britton. Is his problem lack of work? His numbers on regular rest down at Norfolk in August were pretty decent (2.46 ERA was mentioned in the Sun). Could Britton's abysmal performance last night be due to lack of work?


When Erickson was pitching for the O's, Flanny was doing color for HTS/CSN. Flanny was so awesome, and part of that awesomeness was his ability to breakdown the process of pitching to us fans. I remember him saying that the sinker is really affected by pressure on the ball, and velocity. if you put too much on it, the velocity will override the sinking action caused by the grip on the ball. that was probably the first time I heard him use one of my favorite Flanny lines, "don't pitch harder, pitch easier".

Britton was well rested last night. Hunter mentioned the last time he pitched, I think he said it was Aug. 31st. so there could be something to your hunch. but personally, I don't think that was a factor, because he has pitched on regular rest with the O's, and had inconsistent results. after 2012 & this year, I think his 2011 season was an anomaly and they shouldn't expect to see him be that good again.

I say that with the understanding that he's only 25. but he was drafted in 2006. this is his 7th year of pro ball. and this is his 3rd year with MLB experience. I truly believe this is as good as he'll ever be.




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