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Now we have to trade Hardy


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#1 CROUSEMAN

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 07:53 PM

Thanks to the idiotic contract the Cards just gave Peralta, we have no shot at extending Hardy.  Hardy is twice the player Peralta is.  He would ask at least 4/60mil.  The O's aren't going to do that for a 31 year old middle infielder when you have a gold glove shortstop waiting in the wings.  Machado's injury complicates things, but I think you can say goodbye to JJ.  I'm OK with this as Hardy's value will never be higher.  just need the right deal.  Pittsburgh desperate for a shortstop.  They got any young pitchers or a third baseman? Deal Wieters to the Braves to boot and re-tool this team in a heartbeat!  I think that is why you see such little FA activity for the O's.  The big moves will be via a couple blockbuster trades.  Sell high Dan, sell high!



#2 Oriole-Bob

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Posted 27 November 2013 - 06:40 AM

Thanks to the idiotic contract the Cards just gave Peralta, we have no shot at extending Hardy.  Hardy is twice the player Peralta is.  He would ask at least 4/60mil.  The O's aren't going to do that for a 31 year old middle infielder when you have a gold glove shortstop waiting in the wings.  Machado's injury complicates things, but I think you can say goodbye to JJ.  I'm OK with this as Hardy's value will never be higher.  just need the right deal.  Pittsburgh desperate for a shortstop.  They got any young pitchers or a third baseman? Deal Wieters to the Braves to boot and re-tool this team in a heartbeat!  I think that is why you see such little FA activity for the O's.  The big moves will be via a couple blockbuster trades.  Sell high Dan, sell high!

 

This team can afford 4/60 to Hardy.  I'm sick of this cheap *&(@ team.   Yeah we have Machado who can play short...but who the heck plays 3rd then???   Maybe we could give Ty Wigginton a call.



#3 weird-O

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Posted 27 November 2013 - 07:20 AM

This team can afford 4/60 to Hardy.  I'm sick of this cheap *&(@ team. 

that's part and parcel with being an O's fan. they'll never spend big to compete...ever.

 

I heard an interesting comment by Jim Bowden. he said, as an owner, there are years where you rebuild and make a ton of money. and there are years where you're competitive and you voluntarily accept minimal profits for the fans. PGA has never been in that camp. he's always the maximize profits guy. that is never going to change. 


"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics." - Benjamin Disraeli

#4 bmore_ken

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Posted 27 November 2013 - 10:11 AM

Weiters isn't going anywhere


Secretary of State Hillary Clinton. It has a nice sound to it

Suggs has signed. I've never been so happy to be wrong

Don't blame me, I voted Bob Barr:cool:

#5 weird-O

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Posted 27 November 2013 - 10:27 AM

Weiters isn't going anywhere

is this a preemptive comment.  :D


"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics." - Benjamin Disraeli

#6 bmore_ken

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Posted 27 November 2013 - 11:21 AM

is this a preemptive comment.  :D

lol. Nahh just my response to Crouseman's trade him to Atlanta idea. I'd be willing to bet my house Wieters will still be here in 2015.


Secretary of State Hillary Clinton. It has a nice sound to it

Suggs has signed. I've never been so happy to be wrong

Don't blame me, I voted Bob Barr:cool:

#7 weird-O

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Posted 27 November 2013 - 11:45 AM

lol. Nahh just my response to Crouseman's trade him to Atlanta idea. I'd be willing to bet my house Wieters will still be here in 2015.

I agree. PGA is a big believer in the drawing power of "fan favorite" players. he may not pony up market value to extend them, but he keeps them around until it's no longer cost effective. 


"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics." - Benjamin Disraeli

#8 JoyinMudville

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Posted 27 November 2013 - 01:47 PM

The surest path to non-contention in 2014 is by trading away the league's best short stop and catcher.

 

You build teams around these guys. I've never understood why folks think we should trade Weiters and, with Machado looking like a once-in-a-generation third basemen, I don't know why we'd trade Hardy.



#9 weird-O

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Posted 27 November 2013 - 02:29 PM

The surest path to non-contention in 2014 is by trading away the league's best short stop and catcher.

 

You build teams around these guys. I've never understood why folks think we should trade Weiters and, with Machado looking like a once-in-a-generation third basemen, I don't know why we'd trade Hardy.

if we rooted for..let's say...the White Sox. these discussions would never happen. instead, we would be doing what you're suggesting. we would be talking about which players we should add to compliment MW & Hardy. but this is Angeloserville. he isn't going to pay to keep these guys. it's all but a certainty that they will be moving on. it's from that perspective that these discussions make sense. 

 

I brought up the subject of trading Hardy a week or so ago. the reason I think Hardy will be gone, is because Manny wants to play SS. and in the interest of keeping this incredible talent happy, you have to consider it. 

 

my concern about MW is that he will want a 7-8 yr contract. and at 30 (which is how old he'll be when he reaches FA status) a contract of that length is a risky proposition.

 

my opinions are based on the reality of being an O's fan. if I rooted for Chi. I would suggest signing MW and accept the fact that he will probably be moved to DH for the last 2 years of the contract. the O's don't have the same attitude as I do. PGA sees all long term contracts as a money loser. I understand his position. Belle and Roberts were busts. but owners who strive to win, understand that these losses are the cost of doing business in MLB.  


"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics." - Benjamin Disraeli

#10 weird-O

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Posted 27 November 2013 - 02:46 PM

I'll add this to the reasoning for trading MW. The O's have tried to extend him the last 2 winters, and both times they were told he's not interested. Brittany Ghiroli said it's becoming more and more clear that he has no interest in being here beyond 2015.


"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics." - Benjamin Disraeli

#11 weenie

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Posted 27 November 2013 - 05:19 PM

I'll add this to the reasoning for trading MW. The O's have tried to extend him the last 2 winters, and both times they were told he's not interested. Brittany Ghiroli said it's becoming more and more clear that he has no interest in being here beyond 2015.

The biggest problem with Matt IMO is that of the teams needing a catcher, none seem capable of swapping a frontline starting pitcher.  However, Boras/Wieters would love to go to LA and enjoy the weather.  The Dodgers would give up Ethier or Kemp and throw in some cash.  Imagine an O's lineup where Kemp follows Jones and Davis.

 

Regarding JJ, I doubt the O's move him until Machado heals.  But, the best partner for his services just filled their opening. 

 

If I were the O's, the two guys I'd be shopping would be the other JJ and an increasingly expensive BM.



#12 weird-O

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 08:04 AM

The biggest problem with Matt IMO is that of the teams needing a catcher, none seem capable of swapping a frontline starting pitcher.  However, Boras/Wieters would love to go to LA and enjoy the weather.  The Dodgers would give up Ethier or Kemp and throw in some cash.  Imagine an O's lineup where Kemp follows Jones and Davis.

 

Regarding JJ, I doubt the O's move him until Machado heals.  But, the best partner for his services just filled their opening. 

 

If I were the O's, the two guys I'd be shopping would be the other JJ and an increasingly expensive BM.

MW to the dodgers is new info for me. I agree with you about Johnson. $10M is steep for a guy who blew 9 saves. I think Hunter could move to the closer role. but I'm only interested in saving money if it's spent improving the team in other areas. that's the part of the budgetary process that always seems to get truncated. PGA is great with saving money on individual players, but he isn't as adept at rerouting it back onto the field. 


"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics." - Benjamin Disraeli

#13 bmore_ken

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 08:17 AM

I'll add this to the reasoning for trading MW. The O's have tried to extend him the last 2 winters, and both times they were told he's not interested. Brittany Ghiroli said it's becoming more and more clear that he has no interest in being here beyond 2015.

I don't know that's true. I think that's Boras in his ear telling him how much he'll be worth when he hits free agency. Which in my opinion is the right advice. Salaries will only go up. Any deal he signs with the O's right  now will look like a bargain in 2 or 3 years


Edited by bmore_ken, 02 December 2013 - 08:17 AM.

Secretary of State Hillary Clinton. It has a nice sound to it

Suggs has signed. I've never been so happy to be wrong

Don't blame me, I voted Bob Barr:cool:

#14 weird-O

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 09:14 AM

I don't know that's true. I think that's Boras in his ear telling him how much he'll be worth when he hits free agency. Which in my opinion is the right advice. Salaries will only go up. Any deal he signs with the O's right  now will look like a bargain in 2 or 3 years

I can see that. but that leads to the problem of PGA opening the wallet to pay market value. that's a whole other problem. I just don't see the O's outbidding the market, especially if he wants a long contract.

 

but then I look at guys like AJ. he signed early and took less money than he would have gotten as a FA. he wanted to be here. if MW really wanted to stay with the O's, I believe he would tell his agent to make it happen. MW has the reputation of not being the type of player who just wants to earn top $$$. I guess we won't know if that's true, until the opportunity presents itself.   


"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics." - Benjamin Disraeli

#15 Jimmy Jazz

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 11:37 AM

Trading Hardy isn't a bad idea.  He had a decent year after an off 2012 but I don't think he'll ever hit like he did in 2011 again.  Also, if you trade him now the team that gets him has a shot at getting compensation if he leaves via free agency, if you trade him mid season they won't.



#16 Grindelwald

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 09:19 PM

No we don't have to trade Hardy.  He is a very valuable piece, but we aren't sellers anymore.  If we were I'd say trade him.



#17 johnpolitics

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 09:46 PM

Wieters ain't going to Atlanta. They have Gattis and a double AA guy set to play in 2014, Christian Bethancourt.






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