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Tie Breakers and What 4 points would mean


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#1 afan

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 09:28 PM

With so many teams jockeying for the last playoff spot one fact we seem to all be forgetting is the tie breaker rule. I think one is head to head and point differential. Another is total points so while some are saying Tomlin's err was only nothing because it did not change the outcome of the game. Let me say those 4 points not only would give us the point differential over the Squeelers but 4 more points in total. So now you may be saying it won;t come down to this but it could



#2 OriginalColtsFan

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 11:26 PM

Clearly Tomlin's actions were not as inconsequential as some have made them out to be.



#3 cprenegade

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 12:14 AM

First, you are assuming that Jacoby would have scored and the replay evidence shows that Allen was closing ground on him even before Jacoby cut in.  Second, you are assuming the game would have played out exactly the same even after the possible TD from Jacoby.  Neither is a given.  Tomlin's actions warranted the stiff fine he got.  It also warrants greater control over all coaches who are on the field when the play is going on.  But there is no way the NFL can change what happened and award those points.  If anyone had a complaint over an on the field call it would be Green Bay last year after Seattle was awarded a TD on the last play of the game to beat them when it was clearly an interception.  Intentional or not, Tomlin was wrong, he will pay and the Steelers may pay also, but there isn't anything else the NFL can do about it after the fact.  Point differential is way down on the list of tiebreakers, but is a tiebreaker.  So that begs the question that if teams are so concerned about it, why don't they all do what teams do in college and ignore sportmanship and just run the score up as high as they can?  Is there any doubt Denver could probably lay 70 on somebody if they really wanted to?  Have the Ravens ever gotten the ball deep in an opposing teams territory when the team was out of time outs and just kneel on the ball?   Why?  Those points might be important.  It's over.  Tomlin got his fine and his sideline behaviour will be scrutinized closely in the future.  Nohting else they can do. 


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If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.
You can choose from phantom fears and kindness that can kill;
I will choose a path that's clear
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#4 ivanbalt

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 06:29 AM

At this point, who cares?  If the Ravens lose some playoff tiebreaker by 4 points, I can think of many opportunities where they blew it as opposed to some what if scenario.



#5 Struds

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 07:08 AM

At this point, who cares?  If the Ravens lose some playoff tiebreaker by 4 points, I can think of many opportunities where they blew it as opposed to some what if scenario.

Exactly.  I'd have a lot of trouble blaming missing the playoffs on Tomlin vs. the team's performances against Buffalo and Cleveland II for example.



#6 LarryN

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 08:02 AM

Harbaugh/Caldwell have been responsible for more missing points than Tomlin has.

Edited by LarryN, 05 December 2013 - 08:02 AM.

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#7 cprenegade

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 12:10 PM

Harbaugh/Caldwell have been responsible for more missing points than Tomlin has.

 

Harbaugh's onside kick in Pittsburgh gave them 3 more points than they should have had.


You can choose a ready guide in some celestial voice.
If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.
You can choose from phantom fears and kindness that can kill;
I will choose a path that's clear
I will choose freewill.

#8 OriginalColtsFan

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 01:04 PM

@CPR

 

But from what you yourself pointed out in the other thread...the league is indirectly stating that the 4 points COULD factor into the final decision about draft picks. So they are tacitly admitting that Jones might have scored had Tomlin not interfered, AND they are saying that they WILL factor in those 4 points should some sort of tie breaker involving points scored cause the Ravens to miss the playoffs. No?



#9 Struds

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 02:46 PM

@CPR

 

But from what you yourself pointed out in the other thread...the league is indirectly stating that the 4 points COULD factor into the final decision about draft picks. So they are tacitly admitting that Jones might have scored had Tomlin not interfered, AND they are saying that they WILL factor in those 4 points should some sort of tie breaker involving points scored cause the Ravens to miss the playoffs. No?

I took CPR's post with a grain of salt because he started it out with something like "from what I heard on the radio". 

 

If the NFL truly is looking at that as a factor in the draft choice punishment idea, than you are absolutely right; they must be admitting (at least) that they think Jones would probably have scored. 



#10 jonsensback

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 03:49 PM

I'm not sure JJ would have scored, but the possibility does exsist that he could have.

 

Either way it did cost him at least 5 yards on the play that would have made it closer to end zone when the O took the field.

 

Given our red zone % in that game and the season it might have not mattered, but who knows? 



#11 OriginalColtsFan

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 04:59 PM

I'm not sure JJ would have scored, but the possibility does exsist that he could have.

 

Either way it did cost him at least 5 yards on the play that would have made it closer to end zone when the O took the field.

 

Given our red zone % in that game and the season it might have not mattered, but who knows? 

And everyone agrees that a 15 yard penalty should have been added onto the end of the play, but wasn't. The whole damn thing was a mess. Fortunately, the Ravens won. Imagine what would be going down now if the Ravens had lost!



#12 cprenegade

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Posted 06 December 2013 - 01:23 AM

Yes that is true.  There is no doubt he could have scored, but it is not positive that he would have scored.  My issue is with the NFL waiting to see if the Ravens get bumped from the playoffs because of a four point differential in scoring.  The act itself should stand alone as far as the punishment.  If the act warrants a draft choice being stripped, then by all means do it.  If it doesn't then close the case.  And if the result is what determines the punishment, then why not use that across the board.  Why fine someone $15,000 for a helmet to helmet hit if it does not result in an injury?  Why not wait and see if the player is injured.  That, of course would be ridiculous.  As ridiculous as waiting to see if the playoffs are determined by an act that may or may not have prevented a TD.  The act alone should determine punishment.  Roger Godell is an idiot.  He is only asking for more controversy by not simply dishing out the punishment and closing the case.  Does anybody believe Raven's fans will be satisfied if they miss the playoffs by the fact that the NFL will take a draft choice away from the Steelers? 


You can choose a ready guide in some celestial voice.
If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.
You can choose from phantom fears and kindness that can kill;
I will choose a path that's clear
I will choose freewill.

#13 OriginalColtsFan

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Posted 06 December 2013 - 03:15 AM

I agree 100% with what you said, CPR.



#14 tkr

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Posted 06 December 2013 - 11:35 AM

Hmmm, this is a tough one. Do I think Jacoby scores , yes because if a runner sees something in front of him he loses concentration. Did Tomlin's foot distract him? I think it did and actually his changing oh so slightly his angle of running was just enough for the defender to reach out and grab him. As a runner many moons ago I noticed the little things. A runner can hear another runner coming up from behind, sometimes this brings on the results subconsciously as it is of a runner slowing.

 

As for the points one can't change what one causes but a person can change what someone else does. So to change the score to plus 4 for the Ravens is legit. To say what they did to themselves can't be changed.

 

It is what it is and in the AFC is there really a true team ready to take on a Seattle . Denver can't play away or at least Peyton has trouble in the cold. The AFC needs to find a team that is ready, I don't see Denver as that team.



#15 tkr

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Posted 06 December 2013 - 11:35 AM

Hmmm, this is a tough one. Do I think Jacoby scores , yes because if a runner sees something in front of him he loses concentration. Did Tomlin's foot distract him? I think it did and actually his changing oh so slightly his angle of running was just enough for the defender to reach out and grab him. As a runner many moons ago I noticed the little things. A runner can hear another runner coming up from behind, sometimes this brings on the results subconsciously as it is of a runner slowing.

 

As for the points one can't change what one causes but a person can change what someone else does. So to change the score to plus 4 for the Ravens is legit. To say what they did to themselves can't be changed.

 

It is what it is and in the AFC is there really a true team ready to take on a Seattle . Denver can't play away or at least Peyton has trouble in the cold. The AFC needs to find a team that is ready, I don't see Denver as that team.



#16 Rael

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Posted 06 December 2013 - 12:59 PM


 

It is what it is and in the AFC is there really a true team ready to take on a Seattle .

There are still 8 games to go until the SB. Many a team that looks immortal at the 2/3 point has developed mortality by the SB.


Edited by Rael, 06 December 2013 - 01:00 PM.

Pessimism is just an ugly word for 'pattern recognition'.

#17 OriginalColtsFan

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Posted 06 December 2013 - 02:07 PM

Ain't it the truth. There have been times this year where Seattle has looked very average, and other times when they've looked unstoppable. Similarly, last year the Ravens looked dead in the water then they caught fire and the rest, as they say...



#18 terpmaniac

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 03:30 PM

"If" the Ravens had taken care of business against Cleveland(winnable), Green Bay (winnable), Pittsburgh (again winnable)and finally the one loss that truly sticks in my craw..BUFFALO, Freakin BUFFALO! We would not be having this conversation! If we lose a spot by 4 points it would be a appropriate end to this season.



#19 OriginalColtsFan

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 04:37 PM

"If" the Ravens had taken care of business against Cleveland(winnable), Green Bay (winnable), Pittsburgh (again winnable)and finally the one loss that truly sticks in my craw..BUFFALO, Freakin BUFFALO! We would not be having this conversation! If we lose a spot by 4 points it would be a appropriate end to this season.

The winnable games that were lost, in large part, due to coaching decisions, make this one of the more frustrating seasons of all time.






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