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Mussina gets ~20% HOF votes. What the hell ?


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#1 kudzu

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 05:46 PM

I didn't expect him to get 75%+ this year.  But seriously, ~20% ???

 

Very good for a very long time = HOF to me.  Never had the peak(s) of Glavine, but he was arguably better over their respective total careers.

 



#2 Far from home

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 07:14 PM

LOL...I told you he wasn't considered the same level as Glavine...
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#3 demopublican

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 07:25 PM

Which uniform would he wear if he got in?


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#4 kudzu

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 07:29 PM

LOL...I told you he wasn't considered the same level as Glavine...

 

No, you told me that You didn't consider him on the same level as Glavine.

 

I'm appalled that the establishment seems to agree with you.

 

And I'm pretty "establishment" myself.



#5 soulflower

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 08:08 PM

LOL...I told you he wasn't considered the same level as Glavine...

 

Most people consider Mussina better than Glavine.

 

He'll get in eventually but he doesn't have the flashy career milestones that could get him in on the first ballot. 


"...reality has a well-known liberal bias"

#6 Slidemaster

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 08:15 PM

Most people consider Mussina better than Glavine.


I don't think there's any evidence of that whatsoever. Whether he was better or is better is another story, but the perception is that Glavine is leagues better, as this vote shows.
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#7 soulflower

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 08:29 PM

I don't think there's any evidence of that whatsoever. Whether he was better or is better is another story, but the perception is that Glavine is leagues better, as this vote shows.

 

Statistically, Mussina performed better over a shorter career against tougher competition(no DH in the NL).

 

http://www.cbssports...ne-mike-mussina

 

But Mussina doesn't have the milestones that Glavine has(Cy Youngs, 300 wins). If Mussina hung around two more seasons to get 300 wins, he would've gotten in on first ballot. 

 

What's ironic is, Yankee fans are more supportive of Mussina's candidacy but he'll probably go into the HOF as an Oriole...


Edited by soulflower, 09 January 2014 - 08:31 PM.

"...reality has a well-known liberal bias"

#8 Far from home

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 11:20 PM

 

Most people consider Mussina better than Glavine.
 
He'll get in eventually but he doesn't have the flashy career milestones that could get him in on the first ballot. 

over 70 percent of HoF voters do not agree with you.
Ideological gravy trains lead to poor decisions.
Learn from the last President, and make this next era one of rebuilding what has been torn down.
Instead of being loyal to your party, be loyal to your country and your people.

#9 Far from home

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 11:26 PM

No, you told me that You didn't consider him on the same level as Glavine.

I'm appalled that the establishment seems to agree with you.

And I'm pretty "establishment" myself.


This isn't a murder, it's a number of votes for someone who played a game.

I said that he wasn't the same level as Glavine. I wasn't speculating...he wasn't.
Ideological gravy trains lead to poor decisions.
Learn from the last President, and make this next era one of rebuilding what has been torn down.
Instead of being loyal to your party, be loyal to your country and your people.

#10 ivanbalt

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Posted 10 January 2014 - 06:31 AM

No way the bitter, delusional HOF voters are voting in 3 pitchers in one year.  We should be lucky they voted for anyone.



#11 weenie

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Posted 10 January 2014 - 08:41 AM

Having watched both guys extensively (I lived in Altanta for several years) there is no comparison.  Glavine took the ball and gave it all he had.  Some years he was better than Maddux or Smoltz.  And, late in games he stayed committed.  Mussina barely made it through six innings, never pitched unless he had at least four days between starts, and  melted down when the guys behind him made errors. 

 

Mussina was the best the O's had in the 1990s but that's not good enough.  Mussina is more Jack Morris than Tom Glavine. A great pitcher perhaps but not quite hall worthy. 



#12 ivanbalt

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Posted 10 January 2014 - 08:44 AM

Next year has Randy Johnson and Pedro Martinez so Mussina won't be getting in then either.



#13 weird-O

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Posted 10 January 2014 - 08:49 AM

I had the impression that I was one of the few people who thinks Moose is a HOFer. over the past couple of weeks, I've been hearing analysts have an epiphany about what he accomplished. I don't know if the writers disagree with me, or if it was just a crowded ballot. he won't get in next year, because he'll be going up against Pedro, Smoltz & the Big Unit. Guys like Moose and McGriff are going to be boxed out for a few years.


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#14 weird-O

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Posted 10 January 2014 - 08:52 AM

I hear a lot of people talking about Nomar as if he's going to be a big vote getter. I don't see it. in his 14 season career, he only played in 100 games (or more) in 8 of them. in the other 6 seasons, he barely played enough games to even be considered a part time player. 1 silver slugger, no GGs and only 1 time did he finish in the top 5 in MPV votes. he also lacks the strong identity or connection to a particular team. he played half his career in Boston, then he bounced around the league for 6 more years, basically as a hanger on. his strongest offensive numbers are BA and OBP. they're good numbers, but not good enough to make up for all those other shortcomings.

 

but when you play in boston, you automatically get lots of support.  


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#15 soulflower

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Posted 10 January 2014 - 09:08 AM

  over 70 percent of HoF voters do not agree with you.

 

They can only vote for 10 players at a time and there were a bunch of worthy candidates this year. 

 

Moose will get in eventually. 


Edited by soulflower, 10 January 2014 - 09:08 AM.

"...reality has a well-known liberal bias"

#16 soulflower

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Posted 10 January 2014 - 09:11 AM

I hear a lot of people talking about Nomar as if he's going to be a big vote getter. I don't see it. in his 14 season career, he only played in 100 games (or more) in 8 of them. in the other 6 seasons, he barely played enough games to even be considered a part time player. 1 silver slugger, no GGs and only 1 time did he finish in the top 5 in MPV votes. he also lacks the strong identity or connection to a particular team. he played half his career in Boston, then he bounced around the league for 6 more years, basically as a hanger on. his strongest offensive numbers are BA and OBP. they're good numbers, but not good enough to make up for all those other shortcomings.

 

but when you play in boston, you automatically get lots of support.  

 

Nomar was good but I doubt he gets in. His peak was too short and even at his peak he was always 3rd best behind Jeter and A-Rod. 


"...reality has a well-known liberal bias"

#17 bmore_ken

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Posted 10 January 2014 - 02:32 PM

I like Mike but he never won 20 games in a season and he didn't win 300 in a career. Glavine won 20 games 5 times and won over 300 games(for those who hate the win stat for a pitcher, Mussina 3.68 ERA, Glavine 3.54). Mussina really was a step lower than Glavine when you look at the numbers. I think the 20% is horrendous though. But as I said in the other thread though, the HOF vote has become a joke


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#18 soulflower

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Posted 10 January 2014 - 03:16 PM

I like Mike but he never won 20 games in a season and he didn't win 300 in a career. Glavine won 20 games 5 times and won over 300 games(for those who hate the win stat for a pitcher, Mussina 3.68 ERA, Glavine 3.54). Mussina really was a step lower than Glavine when you look at the numbers. I think the 20% is horrendous though. But as I said in the other thread though, the HOF vote has become a joke

 

Mussina won 20 games in 2008. He would've easily had three 20-win seasons if not for the 94-95 Strike.

He had a shorter career but still got 270 wins

He has a higher winning percentage than Glavine despite spending most of his career with the Orioles

Mussina has a better ERA when the numbers are adjusted to account for the DH(ERA+). 

 

They both should be in the HOF. 


Edited by soulflower, 10 January 2014 - 03:17 PM.

"...reality has a well-known liberal bias"

#19 bmore_ken

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Posted 10 January 2014 - 03:21 PM

Mussina won 20 games in 2008. He would've easily had three 20-win seasons if not for the 94-95 Strike.

He had a shorter career but still got 270 wins

He has a higher winning percentage than Glavine despite spending most of his career with the Orioles

Mussina has a better ERA when the numbers are adjusted to account for the DH(ERA+). 

 

They both should be in the HOF. 

Ok he won 20 games in his last season. His stats are still below Glavin's. Adjusted stats don't show up when HOF voters cast their votes.


Edited by bmore_ken, 10 January 2014 - 03:21 PM.

Secretary of State Hillary Clinton. It has a nice sound to it

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Don't blame me, I voted Bob Barr:cool:

#20 soulflower

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Posted 10 January 2014 - 03:31 PM

Ok he won 20 games in his last season. His stats are still below Glavin's. Adjusted stats don't show up when HOF voters cast their votes.

 

I disagree. He's only behind Glavine in raw ERA. 

The Wins aren't an apples to apples comparison since Mussina didn't play as many seasons as Glavine. 


"...reality has a well-known liberal bias"




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