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Pete Carroll- Great Coach?


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#1 bud

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 06:20 PM

Back in 2007, many in this forum claimed that a coach that ever goes 13-3 and has a Super Bowl ring should be considered great and virtually untouchable.  Does that make Pete Carroll a great coach? Should the Seahawks keep him around for life?  For those that remember what I am talking about, I am just glad that we finally found a really good and consistent coach here in Baltimore.


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#2 Brohan

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 07:39 PM

Back in 2007, many in this forum claimed that a coach that ever goes 13-3 and has a Super Bowl ring should be considered great and virtually untouchable.  Does that make Pete Carroll a great coach? Should the Seahawks keep him around for life?  For those that remember what I am talking about, I am just glad that we finally found a really good and consistent coach here in Baltimore.


And a coach that uses words Anne Arundel white trash can understand.

#3 OriginalColtsFan

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 08:54 PM

Back in 2007, many in this forum claimed that a coach that ever goes 13-3 and has a Super Bowl ring should be considered great and virtually untouchable.  Does that make Pete Carroll a great coach? Should the Seahawks keep him around for life?  For those that remember what I am talking about, I am just glad that we finally found a really good and consistent coach here in Baltimore.

1. I'm not sure who you're talking about when you say the Ravens have found a "really good and consistent coach here in Baltimore".

2. Nobody deserves to be a coach for life, so I assume you're making some old reference to some long gone day or something.

3. Pete Carroll is a very good coach. I was listening to some of the commentators describe WHY he's a very good coach, and the qualities that he possesses that other coaches don't include allowing players to be themselves, ALONG WITH forging a team identity around his personality. John Harbaugh lacks those qualities to the max. He cannot tolerate other strong personalities around him, and he HAS no idea what this team is supposed to be about, therefore the team lacks identity on offense and defense. That much was proven this year. Without Ray Lewis and Ed Reed, the team was milktoast under its milktoast DC Pees.



#4 bud

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 08:56 PM

And a coach that uses words Anne Arundel white trash can understand.

 

Awww, are you still mad that despite your predictions and declarations otherwise, no one wanted your boy as head coach?  Heck, he's only managed one cursory interview since his long overdue dismissal. 


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#5 bud

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 08:58 PM

1. I'm not sure who you're talking about when you say the Ravens have found a "really good and consistent coach here in Baltimore".

2. Nobody deserves to be a coach for life, so I assume you're making some old reference to some long gone day or something.

3. Pete Carroll is a very good coach. I was listening to some of the commentators describe WHY he's a very good coach, and the qualities that he possesses that other coaches don't include allowing players to be themselves, ALONG WITH forging a team identity around his personality. John Harbaugh lacks those qualities to the max. He cannot tolerate other strong personalities around him, and he HAS no idea what this team is supposed to be about, therefore the team lacks identity on offense and defense. That much was proven this year. Without Ray Lewis and Ed Reed, the team was milktoast under its milktoast DC Pees.

One thing is for certain; The owner will not make the same mistake he did with Billick.  If the Ravens fail to make the playoffs next year, Harbaugh is out of here.


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#6 OriginalColtsFan

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 09:07 PM

One thing is for certain; The owner will not make the same mistake he did with Billick.  If the Ravens fail to make the playoffs next year, Harbaugh is out of here.

Well...can we clarify that a bit? He's ALREADY made the exact same mistake by extending Harbaugh's contract BEFORE he'd really proven himself, AND he's now one of the highest paid coaches in the NFL. Is he among the best coaches in the NFL? Not even close. He gets outcoached WAY MORE than he outcoaches anyone else. And his track record when it comes to hiring assistants is among the worst in the NFL. So isn't Bisciotti in pretty much the same boat with Harbaugh that he was with Billick?

 

And Bud...you KNOW that you and I are on the same page when it comes to Billick. 100%. (And every time I see a Billick post the first person I think of...is you.) ;)

 

And for context, I've never been a fan of:

 

Andy Reid

Marty Schottenheimer

John Fox

Jack Del Rio

Jeff Fisher

Lovie Smith

Herm Edwards


Edited by OriginalColtsFan, 03 February 2014 - 09:11 PM.


#7 Navypost

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 10:02 PM

And a coach that uses words Anne Arundel white trash can understand.


Clarification?

#8 Brohan

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 10:11 PM

Awww, are you still mad that despite your predictions and declarations otherwise, no one wanted your boy as head coach? Heck, he's only managed one cursory interview since his long overdue dismissal.

Never made that prediction or declaration. Find it or stop lying. Did you trade your Ronnie prude jersey for heroin?

Still on the Nats bandwagon?

Edited by Brohan, 03 February 2014 - 10:21 PM.


#9 Ravens2006

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 08:34 AM

Maybe he is a "great" coach.  Why did he have a .500 record in the NFL after 6 full seasons?  That doesn't strike me as "great"... 

 

Did he get that much smarter in year 7?  Or did it have something to do with combining Russell Wilson at QB with the league's #1 ranked defense?

 

Will he still be a "great" coach next year if Wilson misses 10 games and a handful of key defenders miss a lot of time?

 

But most importantly... if he's really a great coach, if he's that smart, if his personality is that great, etc... why was he a .500 coach after 6 NFL seasons?


Edited by Ravens2006, 04 February 2014 - 08:35 AM.

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#10 CajunRaven

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 09:10 AM

We'll find out when the younger players get the big contracts and they have to deal with the cap. When they have to pick and choose who to keep and who to let go, we'll find out.


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#11 bmore_ken

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 09:40 AM

One thing is for certain; The owner will not make the same mistake he did with Billick.  If the Ravens fail to make the playoffs next year, Harbaugh is out of here.

Harbaugh just signed an extension making over $7M per year. Bischiotti doesn't strike me as the type of businessman to eat that kind of money. If the team does a Houston thing maybe, but not another 8-8 season


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#12 tommyb

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 10:47 AM

Well...can we clarify that a bit? He's ALREADY made the exact same mistake by extending Harbaugh's contract BEFORE he'd really proven himself, AND he's now one of the highest paid coaches in the NFL. Is he among the best coaches in the NFL? Not even close. He gets outcoached WAY MORE than he outcoaches anyone else. And his track record when it comes to hiring assistants is among the worst in the NFL. So isn't Bisciotti in pretty much the same boat with Harbaugh that he was with Billick?
 
And Bud...you KNOW that you and I are on the same page when it comes to Billick. 100%. (And every time I see a Billick post the first person I think of...is you.) ;)
 
And for context, I've never been a fan of:
 
Andy Reid
Marty Schottenheimer
John Fox
Jack Del Rio
Jeff Fisher
Lovie Smith
Herm Edwards




The group you assembled is a perfect example of the type! I agree. They are the: work hard for coach in practice, and I will wind up the team, put them on the field, and watch them 'work hard' during the game. We will do the same thing, week after week, and get the same results, because coach likes to cheer his motivated men on to victory. Coach may not do much on the X's and O's, or adjust strategies to fit the situation, but coach will reward your 'hard work' every week. And you guys are gonna just keep getting better.....with more good practice and hard work. Now go ask my coordinators what the play is.....I am watching and cheering you on.

I always think of it as Andy Reid style football. And hopefully coach gets to stay for 15 years or so...because he just plain works so hard!

#13 baltimoreron

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 11:42 AM

One thing is for certain; The owner will not make the same mistake he did with Billick.  If the Ravens fail to make the playoffs next year, Harbaugh is out of here.

I sure hope so. That sounds exactly like what a winning franchise such as the skins or Browns would do.


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#14 OriginalColtsFan

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 11:46 AM

I sure hope so. That sounds exactly like what a winning franchise such as the skins or Browns would do.

Riiiight. Because hanging onto Billick REALLY helped the Ravens out a lot.

 

:rolleyes:



#15 baltimoreron

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 11:49 AM

Riiiight. Because hanging onto Billick REALLY helped the Ravens out a lot.

 

:rolleyes:

What does my reply have to do with Billick?


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#16 OriginalColtsFan

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 11:52 AM

What does my reply have to do with Billick?

You were responding to a post that said don't make the same mistake with Harbaugh that was made with Billick. And you compared firing coaches to the Browns and 'Skins.



#17 baltimoreron

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 12:03 PM

You were responding to a post that said don't make the same mistake with Harbaugh that was made with Billick. And you compared firing coaches to the Browns and 'Skins.

True. I should have edited the post to quote only the second sentence. That was what my focus was truly on.

 

The only thing I believe Steve 'learned' from the Billick experience is that he would like to be competetive every year. No 11-5, 5-11. That's what we have had under Harbaugh (the competetive part, that is).


Edited by baltimoreron, 04 February 2014 - 12:07 PM.

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#18 OriginalColtsFan

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 12:07 PM

True. I should have edited the post to quote only the second sentence. That was what my focus was truly on.

 

The only thing I believe Steve 'learned' from the Billick experience is that he would like to be competetive every year. No 11-5, 5-11. That's what we have had under Harbaugh.

Fair enough. But here's how I see it: Harbaugh > Billick. But just being competitive every year simply doesn't cut it for me. If it cuts it for you, then keeping Harbaugh makes sense. But if wanting a better coach is the goal, I don't think Harbaugh is the answer. AND, like with Billick, the longer you wait, the longer you prevent your team from improving. Is there always the flip side of being like Jerry Jones and Dan Snyder? Sure. But that's not enough of a rationale to stay with a hand that is not as good as you could have. Just my take.



#19 baltimoreron

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 12:20 PM

Fair enough. But here's how I see it: Harbaugh > Billick. But just being competitive every year simply doesn't cut it for me. If it cuts it for you, then keeping Harbaugh makes sense. But if wanting a better coach is the goal, I don't think Harbaugh is the answer. AND, like with Billick, the longer you wait, the longer you prevent your team from improving. Is there always the flip side of being like Jerry Jones and Dan Snyder? Sure. But that's not enough of a rationale to stay with a hand that is not as good as you could have. Just my take.

Steve is a good judge of talent, that is what he does. I do not believe he would let John overstay his welcome.

 

I like the fact that Steve, in the SOTR address, labeled this year a failure. I also like that Steve, Oz and John (to what degree each is responsible we may never know) have decided to shake up the offensive side of the coaching staff. I would also like to think that they realize that there might not be a quick turnaround in production, especially in light of the dearth of talent on that side of the ball. This would probably but John at least two years (IMO) to get us back to a deep run in the playoffs.

 

John, like all HCs, will eventually be fired. I just hope that it is not done hastily, and certainly not done due to the wishes of the fanbase. Most of the fans seem to have a 'what have you done for me today' mentality. Winning consistently in the NFL is hard, takes patience and stability, and is not guaranteed.


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#20 OriginalColtsFan

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 12:25 PM

Steve is a good judge of talent, that is what he does. I do not believe he would let John overstay his welcome.

 

I like the fact that Steve, in the SOTR address, labeled this year a failure. I also like that Steve, Oz and John (to what degree each is responsible we may never know) have decided to shake up the offensive side of the coaching staff. I would also like to think that they realize that there might not be a quick turnaround in production, especially in light of the dearth of talent on that side of the ball. This would probably but John at least two years (IMO) to get us back to a deep run in the playoffs.

 

John, like all HCs, will eventually be fired. I just hope that it is not done hastily, and certainly not done due to the wishes of the fanbase. Most of the fans seem to have a 'what have you done for me today' mentality. Winning consistently in the NFL is hard, takes patience and stability, and is not guaranteed.

If the exact same situation occurred WITHOUT Harbaugh hanging on ridiculously to bad assistant coaches, I'd probably agree with you. But the very things that CAUSED the failure in the first place are STILL the very things that Harbaugh constantly does. And that's not going to change. So it's just wishful/magical thinking to stay with a losing hand and seriously believe things are going to improve. And what Harbaugh showed me last year was that without real leadership on the team, he is lost. And that's not the type of person who should be leading an NFL team. He doesn't have greatness in him; he's just all show, and very little go. IMO, of course.


Edited by OriginalColtsFan, 04 February 2014 - 12:32 PM.





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