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It's All Smoke and Mirrors


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#1 CROUSEMAN

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 08:54 AM

When the O's didn't land Bronson Arroyo it was no shocker.  In fact it was only worth a yawn.  The debate on whether he was worth signing is another topic.  My point is that this off-season has been all about keeping the payroll below 90 million, but at the same time leaking dis-information to the media to make it look like the O's are actually trying to upgrade the team.  It's all about keeping the fans suckered in while pocketing the extra cash.  I'm sure I'm missing a few, but here are my O's off-season "that was crap" moments:

 

1)  O's interested in bringing back Feldman, McClouth and Roberts - Crap.  No offers even made!

2)  O's planning on keeping Jim Johnson for 2014 - Crap.  Dumped for salary relief.

3)  O's are going to use the Jim Johnson savings to improve club in other areas - Crap.  money used to pay arbitration raises.

4)  O's to sign another closer - Crap.  Bailed on Balfour.

5)  O's interested in Rodney - Crap.

6)  O's linked to Cruz or Morales for another bat - Crap.

7)  O's going hard after Arroyo - Crap.

8)  O's going hard after Burnett - Crap.

9) O's going to improve starting pitching - Crap.

10)  O's have 17 million to spend yet and payroll to be 100 million - Crap.

 

I could still be wrong on some of the above, but I doubt it.  I think we got what we got for spring training.  What a PR spin machine we have.  Petey and Dumpster Dan should be proud.

 



#2 Far from home

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 08:56 AM

I have noticed an unusual amount of O's info. Apparently, Arroyo said that he was worried about a deal falling through, so he chose the D-backs over the O's.
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#3 CROUSEMAN

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 09:03 AM

I have noticed an unusual amount of O's info. Apparently, Arroyo said that he was worried about a deal falling through, so he chose the D-backs over the O's.

More crap most likely.  O's probably offered 2/17 mil.



#4 Buford

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 09:19 AM

O's 2014 season....Crap


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#5 Steveg85321

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 09:20 AM

You can call Duquette what you will (Dumpster Dan is not at all out of line), but the man is neither stupid nor incompetent. It is quite clear his mandate is to maintain the illusion of an actual major league baseball club while not actually participating in the market. You can say Angelos doesn't care about winning, but he does. He is winning - it's all about earnings.



#6 weird-O

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 10:24 AM

You can call Duquette what you will (Dumpster Dan is not at all out of line), but the man is neither stupid nor incompetent. It is quite clear his mandate is to maintain the illusion of an actual major league baseball club while not actually participating in the market. You can say Angelos doesn't care about winning, but he does. He is winning - it's all about earnings.

I agree. DD has managed to make this team competitive, in spite of his boss. he's doing the best that he can, with the tools he has. insiders unanimously agree that the Balfour embarrassment was 100% Angelos. DD made a good deal, and PGA told him to get out of it.  


"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics." - Benjamin Disraeli

#7 CROUSEMAN

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 11:25 AM

I agree. DD has managed to make this team competitive, in spite of his boss. he's doing the best that he can, with the tools he has. insiders unanimously agree that the Balfour embarrassment was 100% Angelos. DD made a good deal, and PGA told him to get out of it.  

I also agree that DD is a very competent GM even though he has MacPhail to thank for a lot of the pieces he is working with.  And yes he is hamstrung big-time by Petey.  But a lot of my "crap" moments I listed can be directly attributed to his quotes to the minions at the Sun.  He is Petey's bagboy for the dis-information campaign. It's all a bunch of baloney.



#8 weird-O

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 11:39 AM

I also agree that DD is a very competent GM even though he has MacPhail to thank for a lot of the pieces he is working with.  And yes he is hamstrung big-time by Petey.  But a lot of my "crap" moments I listed can be directly attributed to his quotes to the minions at the Sun.  He is Petey's bagboy for the dis-information campaign. It's all a bunch of baloney.

I agree. a big part of his job is to deliver the company message. I assume everything he says is a lie, a stall tactic or an excuse for the owner. but I don't hold it against him. McPhail gave the O's some good pieces. there's no doubt about it. but DD made those good pieces a good team. AM was always kicking the can down the road. DD said, we can compete now, and they have. thanks to DD I got to go to a playoff game in 2012. that wouldn't have happened with AM.       


"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics." - Benjamin Disraeli

#9 CROUSEMAN

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 11:50 AM

I agree. a big part of his job is to deliver the company message. I assume everything he says is a lie, a stall tactic or an excuse for the owner. but I don't hold it against him. McPhail gave the O's some good pieces. there's no doubt about it. but DD made those good pieces a good team. AM was always kicking the can down the road. DD said, we can compete now, and they have. thanks to DD I got to go to a playoff game in 2012. that wouldn't have happened with AM.       

Yes, I believe DD is the best GM we have had since Pat Gilick.  And we are lucky to have him.  He was out a GM job so long he will put up with Petey's crap for another year or two before he breaks. It's just so frustrating that we are so close to being a world series contender and Petey just can't go the extra 20 million like the Nats are doing.  That sound you here is our window of opportunity closing.



#10 Slidemaster

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 12:04 PM

According to MLB radio the O's are no longer in the running for Burnett. It's official - they have done absolutely nothing. They've been outspent this offseason by the Rays, the A's, the Twins, and virtually every team that isn't the Marlins. When teams are willing to spend more than you and they all are better at developing talent than you, winning is an impossibility.

I hope they trade Davis, Wieters, and Hardy this season for as many close-to-the-majors prospects they can. Their only hope is to acquire guys who spend so little time in the minors that they can't be destroyed by this career-ruining system.

Pathetic. There's not only no hope for this year. There isn't hope for the next 5 at least, because every decent member of this team will walk the nanosecond their contracts are up.

Welcome to being a fan of the Marlins with a worse farm system, people.

Edited by Slidemaster, 11 February 2014 - 12:05 PM.

The kids are alright.

#11 weird-O

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 12:44 PM

Yes, I believe DD is the best GM we have had since Pat Gilick.  And we are lucky to have him.  He was out a GM job so long he will put up with Petey's crap for another year or two before he breaks. It's just so frustrating that we are so close to being a world series contender and Petey just can't go the extra 20 million like the Nats are doing.  That sound you here is our window of opportunity closing.

I totally agree. and it's more than just the fact that the O's have most of the pieces they need. it's also the timing. the AL east is not its usual haughty self. NY is re-tooling, as opposed to being the odds on favorites to win the division. TB is good, but they're facing the loss of another stellar pitcher. and their budget doesn't allow them to beef up too much. Toronto can't buy a winner. Boston is good, but they could be taken down a peg with a stronger O's pitching staff.

 

but  alas, we're preaching to the choir. the owner ain't listening, and doesn't care. that's why I celebrate the positives. because focusing on the negatives isn't going to change anything, except that it ruins my happy disposition. I know this is a 4th-5th place team that is a couple of tweaks away from being a real force in the AL. I'm under no illusions.    


"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics." - Benjamin Disraeli

#12 CROUSEMAN

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 12:44 PM

According to MLB radio the O's are no longer in the running for Burnett. It's official - they have done absolutely nothing. They've been outspent this offseason by the Rays, the A's, the Twins, and virtually every team that isn't the Marlins. When teams are willing to spend more than you and they all are better at developing talent than you, winning is an impossibility.

I hope they trade Davis, Wieters, and Hardy this season for as many close-to-the-majors prospects they can. Their only hope is to acquire guys who spend so little time in the minors that they can't be destroyed by this career-ruining system.

Pathetic. There's not only no hope for this year. There isn't hope for the next 5 at least, because every decent member of this team will walk the nanosecond their contracts are up.

Welcome to being a fan of the Marlins with a worse farm system, people.

Thanks Slide.  Just confirms #8 on the "that was crap" list.  I honestly believe that the O's had no intentions whatsoever of ever bringing in a FA starter this year. They can spin it that they were in it for Arroyo but I ain't buying it.  they always make a short offer after someone else has already stepped up.  Smoke and mirrors!  They will try Gausman, matusz, britton, Johnson and the guy that was 2-13 with cubs I think.  Same as last two years.  They will spend first 3 months of season shuttling guys between Norfolk and Baltiomore trying to find their keaster with both hands.  Remember Garcia , Stinson, Arrietta and Stinson last year?  Sickening.  Hello Marlins!



#13 CROUSEMAN

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 12:49 PM

Thanks Slide.  Just confirms #8 on the "that was crap" list.  I honestly believe that the O's had no intentions whatsoever of ever bringing in a FA starter this year. They can spin it that they were in it for Arroyo but I ain't buying it.  they always make a short offer after someone else has already stepped up.  Smoke and mirrors!  They will try Gausman, matusz, britton, Johnson and the guy that was 2-13 with cubs I think.  Same as last two years.  They will spend first 3 months of season shuttling guys between Norfolk and Baltiomore trying to find their keaster with both hands.  Remember Garcia , Stinson, Arrietta and Stinson last year?  Sickening.  Hello Marlins!

I meant to have Britton in there instead of Stinson twice.  Of course come to think of it Stinson probably bounced back and forth two or three times LOL!



#14 weird-O

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 12:59 PM

According to MLB radio the O's are no longer in the running for Burnett. It's official - they have done absolutely nothing. They've been outspent this offseason by the Rays, the A's, the Twins, and virtually every team that isn't the Marlins. When teams are willing to spend more than you and they all are better at developing talent than you, winning is an impossibility.

I hope they trade Davis, Wieters, and Hardy this season for as many close-to-the-majors prospects they can. Their only hope is to acquire guys who spend so little time in the minors that they can't be destroyed by this career-ruining system.

Pathetic. There's not only no hope for this year. There isn't hope for the next 5 at least, because every decent member of this team will walk the nanosecond their contracts are up.

Welcome to being a fan of the Marlins with a worse farm system, people.

trading those guys doesn't do anything but give you a new set of names and faces to watch. it's all but impossible to grow a complete WS champion quickly enough to beat arbitration &/or free agency. so why bother trading away pieces that will only return more pieces that will eventually be traded way for more pieces? 

 

I like watching this team. I know they aren't going anywhere, but they play good baseball. after years of watching single A players mixed in with guys like Millar, Pie and Izturis, I'm not ready to give up what little pleasure Orioles baseball brings to me.

 

on an inning by inning, game to game basis, the O's will be competitive, even if their overall season isn't. I'm not throwing that baby out with the bathwater, just because of 20 years of Angelos giving it to us Greek, right between the cheeks.    


"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics." - Benjamin Disraeli

#15 weird-O

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 01:00 PM

I meant to have Britton in there instead of Stinson twice.  Of course come to think of it Stinson probably bounced back and forth two or three times LOL!

yep  :D


"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics." - Benjamin Disraeli

#16 Slidemaster

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 01:20 PM

trading those guys doesn't do anything but give you a new set of names and faces to watch. it's all but impossible to grow a complete WS champion quickly enough to beat arbitration &/or free agency. so why bother trading away pieces that will only return more pieces that will eventually be traded way for more pieces? 
 
I like watching this team. I know they aren't going anywhere, but they play good baseball. after years of watching single A players mixed in with guys like Millar, Pie and Izturis, I'm not ready to give up what little pleasure Orioles baseball brings to me.
 
on an inning by inning, game to game basis, the O's will be competitive, even if their overall season isn't. I'm not throwing that baby out with the bathwater, just because of 20 years of Angelos giving it to us Greek, right between the cheeks.


Their only hope is to try to run into a magical 2012 about once every 6 years, and the only way that happens is by hoping you get lucky in trades and drafts over and over again. Personally I'd rather watch a pathetic baseball team doing what it has to to win once a decade than one with no hope for the present or future.
The kids are alright.

#17 Oriole-Bob

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 01:53 PM

According to MLB radio the O's are no longer in the running for Burnett. It's official - they have done absolutely nothing. They've been outspent this offseason by the Rays, the A's, the Twins, and virtually every team that isn't the Marlins. When teams are willing to spend more than you and they all are better at developing talent than you, winning is an impossibility.

I hope they trade Davis, Wieters, and Hardy this season for as many close-to-the-majors prospects they can. Their only hope is to acquire guys who spend so little time in the minors that they can't be destroyed by this career-ruining system.

Pathetic. There's not only no hope for this year. There isn't hope for the next 5 at least, because every decent member of this team will walk the nanosecond their contracts are up.

Welcome to being a fan of the Marlins with a worse farm system, people.

 

It is pretty sad that they can't lure a "retired" pitcher who lives 20 miles away from their stadium to play ball for them.  lol  



#18 weird-O

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 02:08 PM

Personally I'd rather watch a pathetic baseball team doing what it has to to win once a decade than one with no hope for the present or future.

I can't imagine why. 

 

if this was just about any other team, I could understand your opinion. because those teams would cultivate their talent, retain them, and then add impact pieces to legitimately reach for the ring. that's not happening here. so why wish away the good players that are here? 

 

Hardy is the best shortstop in the sport, not named Tulo. Manny is already the best defensive 3bman in the league, and he's probably about 2 seasons away from out hitting almost every other 3Bman in the sport (assuming Cabrera moves back to 1B). Donaldson in Oak, is crazy good and a better hitter than Manny, now. Davis joins Goldschmidt & Cabrera as the best total 1B package. the list of CFers that are better than Jones is real, real short. Wieters is one of the best catchers in the AL, if not MLB.

 

why get rid of all that talent?

 

even if DD totally kills it on every trade, you would end up right back here again in a 6 years.     


"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics." - Benjamin Disraeli

#19 weird-O

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 02:12 PM

It is pretty sad that they can't lure a "retired" pitcher who lives 20 miles away from their stadium to play ball for them.  lol  

I'm sure they could. they just need to offer market value. he's talking to Philly, so he obviously isn't insisting on playing for a post season contender 


"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics." - Benjamin Disraeli

#20 Slidemaster

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 02:24 PM

I can't imagine why. 
 
if this was just about any other team, I could understand your opinion. because those teams would cultivate their talent, retain them, and then add impact pieces to legitimately reach for the ring. that's not happening here. so why wish away the good players that are here? 
 
Hardy is the best shortstop in the sport, not named Tulo. Manny is already the best defensive 3bman in the league, and he's probably about 2 seasons away from out hitting almost every other 3Bman in the sport (assuming Cabrera moves back to 1B). Donaldson in Oak, is crazy good and a better hitter than Manny, now. Davis joins Goldschmidt & Cabrera as the best total 1B package. the list of CFers that are better than Jones is real, real short. Wieters is one of the best catchers in the AL, if not MLB.
 
why get rid of all that talent?
 
even if DD totally kills it on every trade, you would end up right back here again in a 6 years.


Because the 100 loss years are coming g either way. If you let all the talent walk you have to deal with at least double the number required to get back to respectability than if you trade them for MLB ready guys that have already been developed.
The kids are alright.




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