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Keep Wieters over Davis

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I personally hope and would prefer between the two that the Orioles would give Wieters a long term contract. I think it's easier to replace a power hitting first baseman than a top notch catcher like Wieters. His bat might not have come along just yet but his defense is top notch. He also can handle a pitching staff and guide them through a game. I think it will be harder to replace Wieters than it would Davis. I'd rather keep both but that is doubtful.

 

B)

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Give me Davis every time. Wieters has had 2 chances to extend and has spit on them both. He's overrated, good defensive catchers are being marginalized even more with the "no collisions" rule, and despite all the talk I've heard about how good Wieters is with the pitching staff, they've been absolutely abysmal in his time with the club. I'll take the guy who can hit 40 bombs year in and year out.

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I'm hoping it was an off-year, but Wieters looked lost at the plate last season.  A .235 average isn't going to cut it for the money he's likely looking for.  If he even wants to stay.

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Sorry but extending Wieiters is the stupidest idea.   The guy is going to command a huge salary , more than he is worth and he has a big frame, how much longer will he be a catcher, 2-4 years at most.  Then you are paying a guy a huge amount of money to be one of the worst DH's in the league.  

 

The only upside to having Wieters is that he is a great defensive catcher, once he isn't playing that position any longer his value is squat.

 

 

You wanna pay Wieters $15-20 million a year at end of contract to give you 2/3 the prodcution of what Nelson Cruz is willing to do at $8 million?

Edited by Oriole-Bob

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I personally hope and would prefer between the two that the Orioles would give Wieters a long term contract. I think it's easier to replace a power hitting first baseman than a top notch catcher like Wieters. His bat might not have come along just yet but his defense is top notch. He also can handle a pitching staff and guide them through a game. I think it will be harder to replace Wieters than it would Davis. I'd rather keep both but that is doubtful.

 

B)

I started reading this post thinking you were joking, but i now realize you are just stoned. Easy to replace a power hitting first basemen??????? Weiters is a rally killer and maybe one of the most overated players in baseball. I don't think the O's will be able to keep davis, but if it comes down to shelling out big bucks for one or the other, it's a no brainer.

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bunk-the-wire.gif

I'm with Gizmo on this one. 

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 and despite all the talk I've heard about how good Wieters is with the pitching staff, they've been absolutely abysmal in his time with the club.

You're blaming the catcher because Arrieta and Garcia couldn't get out a pony leaguer, Gausman was called up before he was ready, and Britton was overrated? Yeah ok. with that said if someone is going to offer him $10-$15 million per, I say Nice knowing you Matt.

Edited by bmore_ken

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My only argument would be if a power 1st baseman is so plentiful why did it take us so long?

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I've been lambasted before for my comments on Matt but that's cool. Here I go again.

 

I watched Wieters last year with particular focus on pitch framing and compared his work in that regard to Molina in Tampa (allegedly the best pitch framer in baseball).  Jose sets a target well in advance of the pitch and establishes an expectation in the mind of the umpire, whereas MW waits until the pitcher is well into his windup before setting his target.  Some have said Molina's manner gives away pitch location to the batter whereas Matt's more coy style of keeping his glove pointed down toward the ground until the last moment is a more deceptive style relative to the batter.  That may be true but to me it looks like Matt is lackadaisical, and by the middle innings, he seems almost too tired to make the effort.  

 

The one thing I can assert is that statistically, pitchers improve with Molina behind the plate, whereas Matt has more dubious results.  That may be due to the talent on the mound but big guys who hit less than .250 and in optimal conditions still only play 75-80% of the games are not normally centerpieces.  What Oriole championship team was built around a catcher?

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Either you can pitch or you can't. I'm saying a catcher can't make some difference, but to say a pitching staff pitches better because one catcher can frame pitches better than another is ludicrous. Wieters has his shortcomings, but to blame him for the lackluster performance of teh bargain basement  line up of reject pitchers the O's stockpiled over the years is ridiculous

Edited by bmore_ken

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You have to figure you would have to move Weiters to 1st or DH eventually, so why not have a better long term option at 1st? On the other hand if you have doubts on Davis ability to hit for average and keep a high Slugg pct and OBP for the long term. I think at worst Davis can be a 25hr, 75 runs batted in, and a sub 260 avg hitter at tail end of his prime or career. Start drafting catchers now if you are skeptical about Weiters.

 

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You're blaming the catcher because Arrieta and Garcia couldn't get out a pony leaguer, Gausman was called up before he was ready, and Britton was overrated? Yeah ok. with that said if someone is going to offer him $10-$15 million per, I say Nice knowing you Matt.

I'm not blaming him for anything. I'm just not giving him credit he doesn't deserve either.

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I've been lambasted before for my comments on Matt but that's cool. Here I go again.

 

I watched Wieters last year with particular focus on pitch framing and compared his work in that regard to Molina in Tampa (allegedly the best pitch framer in baseball).  Jose sets a target well in advance of the pitch and establishes an expectation in the mind of the umpire, whereas MW waits until the pitcher is well into his windup before setting his target.  Some have said Molina's manner gives away pitch location to the batter whereas Matt's more coy style of keeping his glove pointed down toward the ground until the last moment is a more deceptive style relative to the batter.  That may be true but to me it looks like Matt is lackadaisical, and by the middle innings, he seems almost too tired to make the effort.  

 

The one thing I can assert is that statistically, pitchers improve with Molina behind the plate, whereas Matt has more dubious results.  That may be due to the talent on the mound but big guys who hit less than .250 and in optimal conditions still only play 75-80% of the games are not normally centerpieces.  What Oriole championship team was built around a catcher?

At times the pitcher is the dominate party in the pitcher/catcher relationship. Greg Maddux could not work with Javy Lopez but Maddux and Eddie Perez worked great. With Glavine the only thing Lopez had to do was set up an inch off the plate and catch the ball. 

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If given a choice, Davis every time.

I like Weiters but the money should be spent on Davis.

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If given a choice, Davis every time.

I like Weiters but the money should be spent on Davis.

This, plus Wieters is a hard-headed catcher that doesn't want to stop switch-hitting because he thinks it is going to draw him more in Free agency.

 

His greed is turning him from friend to foe.

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I'm not blaming him for anything. I'm just not giving him credit he doesn't deserve either.

That's not what it sounded like

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That's not what it sounded like

Bad pitchers are bad because they are bad. I just think that people act like Wieters Can make bad pitchers into good ones, and he can't. His work with pitchers should not be factored into assessing his worth, because he doesn't make a meaningful difference.

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Bad pitchers are bad because they are bad. I just think that people act like Wieters Can make bad pitchers into good ones, and he can't. His work with pitchers should not be factored into assessing his worth, because he doesn't make a meaningful difference.

 

I agree.  Ship Weiters down back to Atlanta where he prefers to be.  He can have fun with the no-see-ums, fire ants and zombies.

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I agree.  Ship Weiters down back to Atlanta where he prefers to be.  He can have fun with the no-see-ums, fire ants and zombies.

We don't want him. Gattis is cheaper and better.

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Wieters is a good defensive catcher with a great arm, and averages almost 30 doubles and 20 HRs with the bat.  Not irreplaceable, but not something to just assume you can replace easily either.  He has two AS games and two GGs on his resume, at 27 years old, with plenty of time to register more of each.  This hope that he'd hit for a higher average and more HRs is what makes people overly critical of him.  I just wish he'd dump the switch hitting thing altogether.  But if every single 1st round pick the O's make wound up being that good relative to their position... this team would be a perennial playoff participant.

 

That said, Wieters will hit FA... at which point the only chance he stays I think is if he regresses and loses all market value.  I'd be surprised if Davis signs a deal before FA too...  and same deal... if he continues to be more of a 40 to 50 HR guy... he's gone as well.  Their best chance of keeping him long-term I think is if he comes back to earth a little bit, he realizes it, and he jumps at more guaranteed money.  But Boras will spend every conversation he has with both guys telling them about the big pay day in FA...

Edited by Ravens2006

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Davis' HR progression since 2008 is suspicious, good thing he's got Nelson Cruz to protect him ;)

Edited by larsanderson

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All glove no bat catchers are a dime a dozen.

 

Davis has more value

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