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The Water is Still Muddy……


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#1 confused fan

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 03:59 PM

The Ravens have made some solid moves in Free Agency.  Bringing in Steve Smith will help Joe Flacco.  In speaking of helping Joe Flacco, it is unbelievable that the Ravens have not drafted a 1st round offensive player since 2009.  Facts like this irritates me when I read national reporters (Jeff Chadia) or hear sports commentators on the national level that gets paid for not doing proper homework but that’s another story.  

 

The Ravens need to load up the weaponry for Joe Flacco. As indicated in my previous post, other so called “elite” quarterbacks have a large array of weapons. Look at Peyton Manning, he has strong receivers and a star tight end with a strong running game and offensive line play.  Look at Brady, he had a strong running game and still had two solid receivers with upcoming rookie receivers (not counting Gronk last year due to injury). Same could be said for Brees.  So when comparing Flacco, a national columnist that actually does their homework and research will see these obvious things.

 

However Flacco can help himself.  He wanted the “elite” payday so he has to be an “elite” quarterback all year round.  That means working with receivers, tight ends, and running backs during the offseason.  He has enough money to fly some players in or go to the castle.  It’s called investing in yourself.  I think offseason workouts can do wonders for all of the receivers especially Marlon Brown. Consider this about Brown, undrafted rookie coming off an ACL injury with suspicious wide receiving coaching and he still had 49 receptions, 520 yards, and 7 touchdowns.  Another thing Flacco can do to help himself is to actually look at game information during the game with a coach instead of sitting on the sideline staring into space or pulling his hair out.

 

Front Office

 

I was scratching my head when I heard a contract was offered to Ed Dickson. Let the man walk, it just didn’t work with the Ravens. 

 

The front office signed Flacco to a $120 million dollar contract, invest in him. The Browns are adding weapons for a mystery quarterback. Create a situation in which Jacoby Jones is the 5th receiver (that means four receivers are playing at a higher level).  Have multiple talented Tight Ends in case of injury.  The running back corps has to be improved. The offensive line is obvious, the center graded out worst in the league according to Pro Football Focus.

 

Players like H. Ngata should help the front office out. He is slated to earn $16 million and he plays like a $4 million dollar player (thats being nice).  Same thing can be said about L. Webb even though he is coming off an ACL injury.  $8 million in cap space is too little with so many spots to be (more than three) to be filled. Some other players can be shown the door. The water is still muddy; it’s up to OZ and company to make it clear. Joe Flacco can help too.



#2 OriginalColtsFan

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 04:07 PM

I thought things were becoming clear with the signing of Monroe, the NOT signing of Oher, and the signing of S Smith. I was not a big fan of the Suggs extension, and I am certainly not a fan of the re-signing of (or offering of a contract) to Dickson. I am waiting to see what, if anything, happens with the Rice situation, along with the vacancies at center and RT. Having followed the Ravens from day 1, they seem to be plagued with a never ending stream of steps forward, AND steps backward. There's one constant in the picture. And for all the accolades that Ozzie Newsome gets, and deserves, there are questionable moves that have had, and continue to have, a detrimental effect on this team. The Ravens should have been a dynasty; instead, they've had to settle for "good/very good" status. But as long as most fans are satisfied with it, it's going to continue.


Edited by OriginalColtsFan, 19 March 2014 - 04:08 PM.


#3 ivanbalt

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 05:36 AM

I thought things were becoming clear with the signing of Monroe, the NOT signing of Oher, and the signing of S Smith. I was not a big fan of the Suggs extension, and I am certainly not a fan of the re-signing of (or offering of a contract) to Dickson. I am waiting to see what, if anything, happens with the Rice situation, along with the vacancies at center and RT. Having followed the Ravens from day 1, they seem to be plagued with a never ending stream of steps forward, AND steps backward. There's one constant in the picture. And for all the accolades that Ozzie Newsome gets, and deserves, there are questionable moves that have had, and continue to have, a detrimental effect on this team. The Ravens should have been a dynasty; instead, they've had to settle for "good/very good" status. But as long as most fans are satisfied with it, it's going to continue.

 

There are no dynasties anymore.  The closest thing is probably the Patriots, but they're in an uncompetitive division and haven't won a championship in a decade.

 

I don't understand how fans could not be satisfied with the Ravens.


Edited by ivanbalt, 21 March 2014 - 05:37 AM.


#4 OriginalColtsFan

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 06:33 AM

I don't understand how fans could not be satisfied with the Ravens.

And that right there is the problem, IMO.



#5 ivanbalt

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 06:36 AM

And that right there is the problem, IMO.

 

Who's the model franchise then?



#6 Struds

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 07:55 AM

There are no dynasties anymore.  The closest thing is probably the Patriots, but they're in an uncompetitive division and haven't won a championship in a decade.

 

I don't understand how fans could not be satisfied with the Ravens.

 

You're right, there are no dynasties anymore, and I think that's good for football.  Our home team has become one of the more consistent contenders, and there's not a lot more we can ask.

 

But, I think there are levels of satisfaction, and while I'm mostly satisfied with the team's management and results, I'm also sometimes frustrated by the  seeming inability to overcome the same or similiar problems. 



#7 OriginalColtsFan

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 01:11 PM

Who's the model franchise then?

Your point is basically irrelevant. The fact that the Ravens haven't been able to solve basic offensive problems (i.e. bad O-line, no stud WR, etc.) in over a decade is the reason they are not a dynasty. It has nothing to do with any other team; it has to do with the fact that the Ravens have failed to solve a most basic problem. Period.


Edited by OriginalColtsFan, 21 March 2014 - 01:12 PM.


#8 ivanbalt

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 03:27 PM

Your point is basically irrelevant. The fact that the Ravens haven't been able to solve basic offensive problems (i.e. bad O-line, no stud WR, etc.) in over a decade is the reason they are not a dynasty. It has nothing to do with any other team; it has to do with the fact that the Ravens have failed to solve a most basic problem. Period.

 

It's the nature of the game.  Teams like NO, NE and GB are the same way except their problem is defense.  It's tough to put together the total package.  Ravens won the SB because they could run, pass and play D during their run.

 

Don't worry, if I see another season of one step drops, my optimism will disappear.  ;)



#9 OriginalColtsFan

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 04:16 PM

It's the nature of the game.  Teams like NO, NE and GB are the same way except their problem is defense.  It's tough to put together the total package.  Ravens won the SB because they could run, pass and play D during their run.

 

Don't worry, if I see another season of one step drops, my optimism will disappear.  ;)

If the situation were unavoidable, or required perfection, that would be one thing. But the mistakes Newsome has made are as much with players he's had the opportunity to actually watch, as they've had to do with predicting what rookies can do. And in a league that's geared towards parity, that's the difference between winning/dominating, and not. But as you said...you're satisfied, so there's really no bridging this gap.

 

Peace.


Edited by OriginalColtsFan, 21 March 2014 - 04:17 PM.


#10 Steveg85321

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 04:38 PM

You've made it clear that you think you know much more about building a football team and about the abilities of current and potential players than Ozzie Newsome and his staff. While not impossible, I would suggest it unlikely. I would bet that there are many factors involved about which even the most knowledgeable fan is unaware. One example might be knowing the players personally so that the simple assumption that if a guy performs poorly one year in one set of circumstances that is all he is capable of. Another example might be priorities and intricacies of contracts and business factors that fans don't have access to. I would suggest that the Ravens are no more "satisfied" than you are, but Ivan's point about solving every single problem in the ideal way is well taken. As a fan, it is not a question of being satisfied. Everybody would like their team to win the Super Bowl every year, but that is not the way life works. If you have a team that is put together as well as possible and doesn't waste resources, that goes to war every week and is competitive until the end most years you are way better off than most cities.



#11 OriginalColtsFan

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 05:04 PM

You've made it clear that you think you know much more about building a football team and about the abilities of current and potential players than Ozzie Newsome and his staff.

And you've made it clear that you're satisfied with the results. And while I readily acknowledge that I offer up criticisms, all you offer up is lame "what if" excuses. Over a decade to fix the O-line? Sorry friend...that's unacceptable at any level. And in truth, the O-line problems go back MORE than 10 years; they go back to Rabach and Mike Flynn.

 

Then there's Newsome's insistence that Travis Taylor was a good receiver who never got the opportunity to show what he could really do. That says about all that needs to be said about Newsome's ability to accurately assess wide receivers. But you're more comfortable making excuses, so keep making them.

 

And that doesn't even scratch the surface of the likes of: Yamon Figurs, D Foxworth, letting Josh Wilson go without even making an offer so that the Ravens ended up with Chris "I'm out of football now" Carr, Sergio Kindle, O'Neil Cousins, Jah Reid, Gino "the not giant" Gronkowski, Michael "I'm NOT a first round pick" Oher, Demetrius Williams, Mark Clayton, Tandon Doss, etc., etc., etc.


Edited by OriginalColtsFan, 24 March 2014 - 06:47 AM.


#12 NCBirdfan

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 10:26 PM

Your point is basically irrelevant. The fact that the Ravens haven't been able to solve basic offensive problems (i.e. bad O-line, no stud WR, etc.) in over a decade is the reason they are not a dynasty. It has nothing to do with any other team; it has to do with the fact that the Ravens have failed to solve a most basic problem. Period.

That is due basically because they have put most of their money on the defensive side. How can you argue they were wrong with that strategy? In the NFL with the cap it is very hard or almost impossible to have a top-tiered defense AND have a top-tier offense. The best a team can hope for is to get some balance. When the Ravens had the best defense in the league years ago (especially the first Super Bowl year), its offense suffered because there was no money leftover to produce a solid offensive unit. More recently though, the offense has been getting a little more attention. With that, the defense has taken a step or two backwards. Teams only have finite resources (unless you're the Broncos, who always seem to find cap money to purchase players) to fill in their rosters. There will always be holes in every roster. 


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#13 OriginalColtsFan

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 10:28 PM

That is due basically because they have put most of their money on the defensive side. How can you argue they were wrong with that strategy?

How? Seriously? How much bang for the buck did they get for Ngata? For Suggs even? For Canty? For Dumervil? Do you REALLY expect me to take you seriously?



#14 NCBirdfan

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 10:40 PM

How? Seriously? How much bang for the buck did they get for Ngata? For Suggs even? For Canty? For Dumervil? Do you REALLY expect me to take you seriously?

This a forum for fans. There are no experts here. No one should be taken seriously.

 

As for your rant, what does it have to do with my comments? Let me reiterate. The pendulum is shifting.  In recent years, the Ravens have started putting more of the resources on the offensive side; the team is more balanced financially, but at a cost to the defensive side, which has not been as dominating as it was in the past when most of the resources were allocated there. 


Edited by NCBirdfan, 21 March 2014 - 10:41 PM.

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#15 OriginalColtsFan

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 10:50 PM

This a forum for fans. There are no experts here. No one should be taken seriously.

 

As for your rant, what does it have to do with my comments? Let me reiterate. The pendulum is shifting.  In recent years, the Ravens have started putting more of the resources on the offensive side; the team is more balanced financially, but at a cost to the defensive side, which has not been as dominating as it was in the past when most of the resources were allocated there. 

You make statements/arguments that I counter. It's got nothing to do with expertise -- it's about logic and common sense, and a bit of factual history. And as far as your shifting pendulum...the Ravens haven't used a 1st round draft pick on offense since 2009. I don't know what it is with people who feel the need to defend Ozzie Newsome to the death. It's ridiculous.



#16 NCBirdfan

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 11:19 PM

You make statements/arguments that I counter. It's got nothing to do with expertise -- it's about logic and common sense, and a bit of factual history. And as far as your shifting pendulum...the Ravens haven't used a 1st round draft pick on offense since 2009. I don't know what it is with people who feel the need to defend Ozzie Newsome to the death. It's ridiculous.

Maybe reaching the playoffs 6 out of the last 7 years has a lot to do with it. I would say that is logical and is loaded with common sense. I would also the team has been successful. What other teams come can boast that kind of accomplishment?

 

While it's true, the Ravens didn't draft anyone in the first round on the offensive side of the ball since 2009, the team has improved through free agency/trades.  , 

 

I defend Newsome because he has proven to be one of the better GMs in the business. I base those on overall results (wins-losses; playoffs; championships). There are few GMs that come even close. In other words I base my defense in facts, other than opinions. 


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#17 OriginalColtsFan

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 11:34 PM

Maybe reaching the playoffs 6 out of the last 7 years has a lot to do with it. I would say that is logical and is loaded with common sense. I would also the team has been successful. What other teams come can boast that kind of accomplishment?

 

While it's true, the Ravens didn't draft anyone in the first round on the offensive side of the ball since 2009, the team has improved through free agency/trades.  , 

 

I defend Newsome because he has proven to be one of the better GMs in the business. I base those on overall results (wins-losses; playoffs; championships). There are few GMs that come even close. In other words I base my defense in facts, other than opinions. 

Same old same old arguments. Reaching playoffs doesn't prove anything.

 

Here's a fact: Haloti Ngata was the highest paid player at his position and he hasn't BEGUN to earn his pay day. And all that money paid out to him has taken away money needed to fix other problem areas -- like the O-line. So your VERY STATEMENT that the Ravens made the right decision to sink all that money into the defense is so off the mark it's not even funny.

 

FACT: EVERYTHING in football starts in the TRENCHES. EVERYTHING. And the Ravens O-line has been a mess for over a decade. That is NOT the sign of a GM who is on top of his game.

 

And spare me the "this team" or "that team" crap. The ONLY team being discussed here is the Ravens. And they're not being graded on a curve. It doesn't matter what grades anybody else got in this class.


Edited by OriginalColtsFan, 21 March 2014 - 11:39 PM.


#18 NCBirdfan

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 11:44 PM

Same old same old arguments. Reaching playoffs doesn't prove anything.

 

Here's a fact: Haloti Ngata was the highest paid player at his position and he hasn't BEGUN to earn his pay day. And all that money paid out to him has taken away money needed to fix other problem areas -- like the O-line. So your VERY STATEMENT that the Ravens made the right decision to sink all that money into the defense is so off the mark it's not even funny.

Didn't they win a championship two seasons ago? :o

FACT: EVERYTHING in football starts in the TRENCHES. EVERYTHING. And the Ravens O-line has been a mess for over a decade. That is NOT the sign of a GM who is on top of his game.

 

And spare me the "this team" or "that team" crap. The ONLY team being discussed here is the Ravens. And they're not being graded on a curve. It doesn't matter what grades anybody else got in this class

I think you have been playing too many games on Playstation and have lost your sense of reality. In the real world you just can't pick players off of trees. Otherwise, every team would have All-pros at every position. It's much harder in real life. 


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#19 Tru Dat

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Posted 22 March 2014 - 07:13 AM

There are no dynasties anymore.  The closest thing is probably the Patriots, but they're in an uncompetitive division and haven't won a championship in a decade.

 

I don't understand how fans could not be satisfied with the Ravens.

Is it the water?



#20 OriginalColtsFan

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Posted 22 March 2014 - 07:22 AM

I think you have been playing too many games on Playstation and have lost your sense of reality. In the real world you just can't pick players off of trees. Otherwise, every team would have All-pros at every position. It's much harder in real life. 

LOL. You want to talk about reality, yet you can't even begin to deal with the reality of the Ngata debacle, or the decade-long O-line debacle, or even the virtual lack of drafted WR talent the entire time Newsome has been the GM (until T Smith, who is the exception who proves the rule). Unless or until you do, what's the point of talking to you rationally? It's not a matter of offense or defense; it's a matter of horrible choices on offense throughout the years, combined with questionable bloated defensive contracts, that have kept the Ravens from achieving true greatness. So while you celebrate goodness, and insist that that's all that could/should have ever been, I simply seek a higher level, that's all.


Edited by OriginalColtsFan, 22 March 2014 - 08:53 AM.





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