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Johnson out as closer in Oakland


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#1 Morgan208

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 02:33 PM

So 10.5 million for a set up man.



#2 ivanbalt

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 04:19 PM

Sucks that JJ has completely lost it, but I'm glad that it's Oakland's problem.



#3 where's earl

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 06:31 AM

Just goes to show how important a good front office and manager are. They knew something was wrong


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#4 weird-O

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 07:05 AM

from a PR perspective, it was easy for the FO to say they had to part ways because of his salary. that's understandable since few teams will dedicate $10M/yr to a guy who only pitches ~60 innings a season. personally, I don't think that was the sole reason for trading him. I think DD saw that the guy, despite his gaudy numbers, was trending downward. 

 

I'm in the camp that believes the idea of the closer is a fallacy. look at Det. for a couple of seasons analysts have been saying that they don't have a ring because they didn't have a closer. I disagree. they don't have a ring because they were doggedly dedicated to the closer concept. Leyland was a LaRussa disciple and stayed with 1 guy to close games, even though that pitcher wasn't capable of doing the job. the smarter move would have been to use the right pitcher for each situation.      


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#5 Far from home

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 09:02 AM

It is sad. I wonder what is wrong with him.
Ideological gravy trains lead to poor decisions.
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#6 TheJudgement

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 12:43 PM

Probably just mechanics. Baseball is such a fine art.

#7 Morgan208

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 12:02 PM

Just goes to show how important a good front office and manager are. They knew something was wrong

they knew something was wrong last season, but they kept sending him out there anyway. 9 blown saves with 3 coming in one week, he was a big reason we didn't make the post season.



#8 weird-O

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 12:56 PM

they knew something was wrong last season, but they kept sending him out there anyway. 9 blown saves with 3 coming in one week, he was a big reason we didn't make the post season.

those 9 games definitely played a part in missing the playoffs. Buck is just a creature of habit, sometimes to a fault.


"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics." - Benjamin Disraeli

#9 Morgan208

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 11:20 AM

those 9 games definitely played a part in missing the playoffs. Buck is just a creature of habit, sometimes to a

when your closer blows a game when you have a 3 run lead it has to effect the team



#10 ziptop

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 08:27 AM

Buck wouldn't have stopped trotting him out there, that's for sure. Buck lost the playoffs, not Jim Johnson. Jim Johnson didn't put himself into the game, someone with very very poor judgement did. And that's an understatement. Buck hurt the player ultimately and he really hurt the team.

 

Heck that's only ten million dollars. What do you expect?



#11 weird-O

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 09:52 AM

Buck wouldn't have stopped trotting him out there, that's for sure. Buck lost the playoffs, not Jim Johnson. Jim Johnson didn't put himself into the game, someone with very very poor judgement did. And that's an understatement. Buck hurt the player ultimately and he really hurt the team.

 

Heck that's only ten million dollars. What do you expect?

I have a different opinion about that. Johnson was incredible all season long in 2012. it wasn't until the playoff game that he blew the first big save. and after a great season of being lights out, there was no reason to be concerned. 

 

one really bad lapse of judgement was to pitch to Ibanez in extra innings. a week or so before the playoffs started, he took down Boston with a late inning PH HR. then he hit the HR that took that game in NY into extra innings. by that time it seemed clear that he should have been walked. he was white hot. so when Buck decided to pitch to him, it was clear that things were about to go the wrong way for the O's. 

 

on a broader level, this is a great example of why it is rarely one player's fault that their team lost a game/series. aside from McLouth and Andino, no one else could get a hit in the playoffs. their offense topped out at 3 runs in game 2. other than that, they scored 2 runs or less in the other 4 games.  


"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics." - Benjamin Disraeli

#12 Far from home

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 08:58 AM

 

Buck wouldn't have stopped trotting him out there, that's for sure. Buck lost the playoffs, not Jim Johnson. Jim Johnson didn't put himself into the game, someone with very very poor judgement did. And that's an understatement. Buck hurt the player ultimately and he really hurt the team.
 
Heck that's only ten million dollars. What do you expect?


Have to love the trolling tone of this post.

JJ was put out there because he was still pretty effective. Normally, a pitcher is pulled because a coach sees something wrong, not because the guy performs poorly, unless it's over a long period.
Ideological gravy trains lead to poor decisions.
Learn from the last President, and make this next era one of rebuilding what has been torn down.
Instead of being loyal to your party, be loyal to your country and your people.

#13 Struds

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 10:33 AM

 
Have to love the trolling tone of this post.

JJ was put out there because he was still pretty effective. Normally, a pitcher is pulled because a coach sees something wrong, not because the guy performs poorly, unless it's over a long period.

I hate to second-guess Buck, but JJ did struggle last year, even in some games where he did get the save.  I thought Buck probably should have used somebody different from time-to-time while keeping JJ as the primary closer.

 

I also felt Britton should have pitched the 9th inning in that Jays game last weekend where Hunter gave up the HR.  And, I'm not saying that because of the HR (which probably should have been a K on the previous pitch), I'm saying it because the scheduled 3 batters were all lefties and Britton has been nasty.

 

My only two minor complains against Buck are his stubborness on pretty much automatically yanking SPs on pitch counts and insisting on using A SPECIFIC closer regerdless of the circumstances.



#14 weird-O

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 10:59 AM

I hate to second-guess Buck, but JJ did struggle last year, even in some games where he did get the save.  I thought Buck probably should have used somebody different from time-to-time while keeping JJ as the primary closer.

 

I also felt Britton should have pitched the 9th inning in that Jays game last weekend where Hunter gave up the HR.  And, I'm not saying that because of the HR (which probably should have been a K on the previous pitch), I'm saying it because the scheduled 3 batters were all lefties and Britton has been nasty.

 

My only two minor complains against Buck are his stubborness on pretty much automatically yanking SPs on pitch counts and insisting on using A SPECIFIC closer regerdless of the circumstances.

that gets back to the discussion about closers. I know I'm not alone in the opinion that the whole "closer" concept is flawed. simply put, there is no such thing as a one size fits all pitcher. that doesn't mean that an individual pitcher (Hunter for example) wouldn't be the best choice for most 9th inning situations. but the idea that he has to pitch the 9th, because he's the closer...that's a shortsighted and narrow minded view of the game.    


"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics." - Benjamin Disraeli

#15 ivanbalt

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 12:17 PM

that gets back to the discussion about closers. I know I'm not alone in the opinion that the whole "closer" concept is flawed. simply put, there is no such thing as a one size fits all pitcher. that doesn't mean that an individual pitcher (Hunter for example) wouldn't be the best choice for most 9th inning situations. but the idea that he has to pitch the 9th, because he's the closer...that's a shortsighted and narrow minded view of the game.    

 

From the Orioles' perspective I agree.  From the the rest of MLB's perspective, I disagree because I need consistent saves from my fantasy baseball closers.



#16 JoyinMudville

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 10:05 PM

Seems like Johnson has been doing better not pitching in the closer role.



#17 Slidemaster

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 10:21 PM

From the Orioles' perspective I agree.  From the the rest of MLB's perspective, I disagree because I need consistent saves from my fantasy baseball closers.

 

I never ever pay premium prices for closers.  They're too volatile, and too many closers lose their job or get injured during the year for me to do anything but save-chase throughout the season.  

 

In the league I care the most about, I have Soria, Santos and K-Rod as my 3 relievers with Valverde on the bench, and I didn't draft any of them.  I fully expect to ditch Santos and Valverde soon, just in time to pick up whoever is taking over for Lindstrom and/or whoever is injured.


The kids are alright.

#18 Jimmy Jazz

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Posted 19 April 2014 - 07:16 AM

Seems like Johnson has been doing better not pitching in the closer role.


Makes sense. Unless he is hurt there's really no reason for this.




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