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Hardy, Davis and Wieters Contract Extensions


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#1 CROUSEMAN

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 01:37 PM

Anybody still sorry we didn't sign any of these guys to an extension over the winter?  It seems that they were at max value at that time and the worm has turned the other way.  They all are having off years whether it be injury, slump or a little of both.  Hardy looks to be slipping a little with power numbers that have fallen off the table.  I doubt he gets the  one year 15 mil qualifier at this rate.  Davis looks like 2011 all over again.  A shell of last year.  Be interesting how he finishes year.  And who knows with Wieters and his elbow.  Glad Dan took the wait and see approach.  I'm sure the agents were asking for the moon as well.



#2 weird-O

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 02:08 PM

I'm sorry they didn't extend Hardy & Davis. I'm convinced that Wieters is already out the door. I'm pretty sure that all 3 players will receive very lucrative contracts when their day comes. I don't think the past 2 months will be a factor at all. if Wieters wants to stay, that's a tough call to make. He'll be a 30 yr old catcher with lots of miles on him. and he'll want a contract that will take him into the decline years of his career. but maybe he can come out from behind the plate at 34 and find new offensive life as a DH. 


"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics." - Benjamin Disraeli

#3 aurelius

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 02:24 PM

Those guys will get their money (somewhere), but the onus for a team like the orioles is that when they do break out the wallet, they must be reasonably sure they won't get a crappy deal. I'm not at all convinced that Hardy will be worth the next contract he gets. More and more it's getting to the point where you should only give big contracts (in length) with young players  when you know you have something, as they did with Markakis and Jones. By the time a player reaches his peak, you're entering a zone of declining results. Look at the huge contracts veterans got like Teixeia Hamilton and Puljols. If anyone ever looked like a sure bet it was Puljos, but it didn't work out that way. My philosophy as a GM would be to try to lock up the young talent. Once they hit age 29 or so, it's a three or four year deal max.



#4 CROUSEMAN

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 05:57 PM

Those guys will get their money (somewhere), but the onus for a team like the orioles is that when they do break out the wallet, they must be reasonably sure they won't get a crappy deal. I'm not at all convinced that Hardy will be worth the next contract he gets. More and more it's getting to the point where you should only give big contracts (in length) with young players  when you know you have something, as they did with Markakis and Jones. By the time a player reaches his peak, you're entering a zone of declining results. Look at the huge contracts veterans got like Teixeia Hamilton and Puljols. If anyone ever looked like a sure bet it was Puljos, but it didn't work out that way. My philosophy as a GM would be to try to lock up the young talent. Once they hit age 29 or so, it's a three or four year deal max.

I really agree with this.  Teams that pay for past performance usually get burned.  Pay for performance you would think to get in the future at a discounted current rate, i.e adam jones deal.   It's a risk but if you have a good GM that knows talent it can be a way to keep your team stocked without paying 25mil a year to the FA du jour.  I think JJ Hardy at 4/60 mil would be paying for past performance with no reasonable expectation that he will meet his level of play the next 4 years.  I know this is hindsight but he is already starting to fade a little.  I just can't envision it being a good investment paying JJ hardy at age 35 and 36 15 mil a year to man shortstop..



#5 CROUSEMAN

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 06:29 PM

I'm sorry they didn't extend Hardy & Davis. I'm convinced that Wieters is already out the door. I'm pretty sure that all 3 players will receive very lucrative contracts when their day comes. I don't think the past 2 months will be a factor at all. if Wieters wants to stay, that's a tough call to make. He'll be a 30 yr old catcher with lots of miles on him. and he'll want a contract that will take him into the decline years of his career. but maybe he can come out from behind the plate at 34 and find new offensive life as a DH. 

Agree with Wieters, disagree with Hardy and on fence with Davis.  I was with you this winter on wanting an extension on Davis.  But I'm sure Boras is looking at Josh Hamilton money of 25 mil/yr.  Sorry I'm not on board with that.  That is the kind of contract that will cripple a team like the O's for years.  And from what I've seen this year Davis isn't worth it.  Hindsight yes, but it is what it is.  He is swinging through 92-93 mph fastballs and trying to pull everything. He has regressed .



#6 weird-O

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 09:46 PM

Agree with Wieters, disagree with Hardy and on fence with Davis.  I was with you this winter on wanting an extension on Davis.  But I'm sure Boras is looking at Josh Hamilton money of 25 mil/yr.  Sorry I'm not on board with that.  That is the kind of contract that will cripple a team like the O's for years.  And from what I've seen this year Davis isn't worth it.  Hindsight yes, but it is what it is.  He is swinging through 92-93 mph fastballs and trying to pull everything. He has regressed .

I have every confidence that Davis will end the season with 30 HRs ~ 100 RBI along with GG caliber defense. I'll take that all day. 


"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics." - Benjamin Disraeli

#7 CROUSEMAN

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Posted 07 June 2014 - 11:18 AM

I have every confidence that Davis will end the season with 30 HRs ~ 100 RBI along with GG caliber defense. I'll take that all day.

I believe you will be pretty close on this. But that's a far cry from 50 hr and 140 rbi which is the point Boras was negotiating from this winter. Duquette needs to negotiate on the 2012/2014 version of Chris Davis. What is 30-35 hrs/100-110 rbis/yr worth in today's market? I'm not sure, but I wouldn't pay over 20 mil/yr for it. That dumb contract the angels gave josh Hamilton set the bar for what sluggers in their prime should expect to get. Thanks for the memories Chris. The more we talk about this, the more I'm convinced we will not be able to sign him. This could be a really interesting winter on the hot stove.

#8 Jimmy Jazz

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Posted 07 June 2014 - 06:42 PM

So far in June (only 5 games and admittedly an arbitrary cutoff) Davis is batting:

 

.333/.417/.619/1.036

 

So let's not write him off just yet.  As for Hardy, his power will come.  Meanwhile, he's batting over .300 and is pretty much the only infielder who looks good this year in the field.



#9 bmore_ken

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 12:49 PM

Yep let's just let them all walk and start over with another 14 years of losing seasons. Great plan <_<


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Suggs has signed. I've never been so happy to be wrong

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#10 ivanbalt

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Posted 12 June 2014 - 01:16 PM

Yep let's just let them all walk and start over with another 14 years of losing seasons. Great plan <_<

 

Plus there's the Markakis option and Cruz likely gone too.



#11 Struds

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Posted 13 June 2014 - 06:53 AM

Maybe this isn't realistic, but could Hardy's early injury and his lack of power, Wieter's injury (especially if he gets surgery) and Davis's (so far) decline make each less likely to attract big bucks elsewhere and thus more affordable for the O's?  (Still no way in hell we keep all 3, but maybe 2?)



#12 weird-O

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Posted 13 June 2014 - 08:14 AM

Maybe this isn't realistic, but could Hardy's early injury and his lack of power, Wieter's injury (especially if he gets surgery) and Davis's (so far) decline make each less likely to attract big bucks elsewhere and thus more affordable for the O's?  (Still no way in hell we keep all 3, but maybe 2?)

I heard a radio conversation about FA shortstops who are available this winter. apparently there are multiple teams who are salivating at the chance to land Hardy. he's considered the 2nd most coveted SS behind Hanley Ramirez. if he wants to leave, he has teams that will pay him handsomely to go there.

 

MW & CD have the rest of this season and all of next season to show that they are healthy and legit. and when it comes to FAs, the team that wants them always gives more love than the team that has them. since MW has no interest in even discussing an extension with the O's, I expect that he's already got one foot out the door at this point. 


"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics." - Benjamin Disraeli

#13 ivanbalt

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Posted 13 June 2014 - 08:33 AM

Hardy needs to be a priority.  I remember the Izturis years.



#14 bmore_ken

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 10:27 AM

Hardy needs to be a priority.  I remember the Izturis years.

Stop it, I've put those memories behind me and don't want to remember  :D


Secretary of State Hillary Clinton. It has a nice sound to it

Suggs has signed. I've never been so happy to be wrong

Don't blame me, I voted Bob Barr:cool:

#15 RIKMAN

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 02:12 PM

I think Weiters is gone. I think that is one reason hundley was acquired. I think they will sign both Davis and Hardy. They will get the kings discount/hometown rate of course.

Cruz is the one I want back.
Baltimore Sports fan since 1965!:cool:

Confusing the delusional with fact since 2005!

#16 TheJudgement

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 04:12 PM

I really don't want Davis anymore. I'm sick of our inconsistent batters.

#17 weird-O

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Posted 16 June 2014 - 06:33 AM

I really don't want Davis anymore. I'm sick of our inconsistent batters.

I'm with you. I wish  that Davis was never brought to the O's. they should have kept Ty Wiggington to play 1B. I can't wait for the 2016 season so that we could be done with Davis for good. and don't get me started on Hardy. that loser doesn't have a single HR this season. just cut him now and bring back Izturis. the O's still wouldn't have any HRs out of the SS position. but at least they would have a player whose last name begins with I. if you look at their 25 man roster, not a single player has a last name that starts with I. what's up with that? no wonder they suck so bad.


"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics." - Benjamin Disraeli

#18 Gizmo

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Posted 16 June 2014 - 07:55 AM

I'm with you. I wish  that Davis was never brought to the O's. they should have kept Ty Wiggington to play 1B. I can't wait for the 2016 season so that we could be done with Davis for good. and don't get me started on Hardy. that loser doesn't have a single HR this season. just cut him now and bring back Izturis. the O's still wouldn't have any HRs out of the SS position. but at least they would have a player whose last name begins with I. if you look at their 25 man roster, not a single player has a last name that starts with I. what's up with that? no wonder they suck so bad.

 

If we're going to bring back the good times then lets not forget Felix Pie and Robert Andino also.  :)

 

I still remember Ty Wiggington trying to field a ball up the middle while playing 2b and kicking it almost all the way to the stands along the left field foul line.  :D

 

Let the Good Times Roll (just because I'm feeling nostalgic today).



#19 weird-O

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Posted 16 June 2014 - 08:26 AM

If we're going to bring back the good times then lets not forget Felix Pie and Robert Andino also.  :)

 

I still remember Ty Wiggington trying to field a ball up the middle while playing 2b and kicking it almost all the way to the stands along the left field foul line.  :D

 

Let the Good Times Roll (just because I'm feeling nostalgic today).

I was going to do a full position by position overhaul, with O's "greats" from the last decade. but I didn't want to over do the joke  :P


"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics." - Benjamin Disraeli

#20 ivanbalt

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Posted 16 June 2014 - 09:26 AM

I was going to do a full position by position overhaul, with O's "greats" from the last decade. but I didn't want to over do the joke  :P

 

Come on, that would be entertaining.

 

Remember 2010 when Wiggington was the Orioles' only All Star?  :o






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