Jump to content



Recent headlines from The Baltimore Sun

Photo
- - - - -

Which statement is more true?


  • Please log in to reply
104 replies to this topic

#1 aurelius

aurelius

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 674 posts

Posted 27 July 2014 - 09:43 PM

1. We're one of the best hitting teams in the league (from a thread started in early season)

2. This team simply cannot hit
3. Neither  -- "Good pitching will always stop good hitting and vice-versa." (from Casey Stengel)

 

#2 JoyinMudville

JoyinMudville

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 4,069 posts
  • LocationBrooklyn

Posted 27 July 2014 - 10:15 PM

Our 259 team average - which has gone down considerably after this road trip - makes us the fifth best team in the league in terms of average.

 

We're sixth in terms of RBI's

 

2nd in terms of home runs.

 

and an astonishing 2nd in RISP.

 

I started that thread not because I think the team is fantastic but because it does seem like the O's have trouble hitting and yet the stats tell a different story.

 

So... I'll go with number 3.



#3 JoyinMudville

JoyinMudville

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 4,069 posts
  • LocationBrooklyn

Posted 27 July 2014 - 10:16 PM

by the way... our 313 on base percentage is a whole 17 points off the league leading Angels who have a 330 bop



#4 85Knight

85Knight

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 5,315 posts

Posted 27 July 2014 - 10:18 PM

1. We're one of the best hitting teams in the league (from a thread started in early season)
2. This team simply cannot hit
3. Neither -- "Good pitching will always stop good hitting and vice-versa." (from Casey Stengel)


4. The O's are a great homerun hitting team that struggles to manufacture runs any other way.

The math is pretty simple. When we hit 2 HR's or more we usually win. When we hit no HR's we usually lose. When we hit 1 it's 50/50.

The reason is also simple. We have no team speed and we don't walk or bunt much. Despite leading the league in HR's we're near the bottom in doubles and triples and at the bottom in steals. Add all this up and it makes us a station to station team that struggles to be creative on the base paths.

How do we fix it? I have no clue.

Edited by 85Knight, 27 July 2014 - 10:22 PM.


#5 Jimmy Jazz

Jimmy Jazz

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 11,784 posts

Posted 28 July 2014 - 01:13 AM

4. The O's are a great homerun hitting team that struggles to manufacture runs any other way.
The math is pretty simple. When we hit 2 HR's or more we usually win. When we hit no HR's we usually lose. When we hit 1 it's 50/50.
The reason is also simple. We have no team speed and we don't walk or bunt much. Despite leading the league in HR's we're near the bottom in doubles and triples and at the bottom in steals. Add all this up and it makes us a station to station team that struggles to be creative on the base paths.
How do we fix it? I have no clue.


I think the reason is primarily the team OBP mark. You can score plenty without bunting or stealing but you can't score much when no one is on base.

#6 85Knight

85Knight

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 5,315 posts

Posted 28 July 2014 - 07:12 AM

I think the reason is primarily the team OBP mark. You can score plenty without bunting or stealing but you can't score much when no one is on base.


I think it's a combination of a low OBP and a lack of speed. It would help if we could do more with the runners that we do get on base. There are teams with similar OBP's that score more than we do because they manufacture more runs.

That being said it's never one thing that makes a team work or not work. If we continue to hit homers and get the pitching we have I think we'll be ok. The three teams we just faced were all top 5 in era so it's not going to get any harder than that and we still went 6-4 and could have won all three series. That's very encouraging.

#7 aurelius

aurelius

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 674 posts

Posted 28 July 2014 - 09:13 AM

There's also situational hitting, clutch hitting or whatever you call it. The orioles lead the majors (by a wide margin last time it was reported) in the dubious category for the percentage of runs scored by home runs. The reason I say dubious is because it indicates that they lack the capability to manufacture runs by any other method, other than hitting home runs. How often do we see a runner on 3B with 0 or 1 outs and they fail to score. It happened multiple times just in yesterday's game. Situations where not even a base hit was required to score the run. It's like the orioles hitters lock up in those situations. It should be the opposite, the pitcher is the guy who should be feeling the heat.

I've pointed out many times how fortunate the orioles are to win a series based on the number of runs they scored. Well, it happened again this weekend, winning 3 of the 4 games while averaging a paltry 3 runs per game. Where would this team be without the outstanding pitching they're getting? The answer to that is they'd be dead and buried by now.


Edited by aurelius, 28 July 2014 - 09:18 AM.


#8 Slidemaster

Slidemaster

    Resident Good Luck Charm

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 19,274 posts

Posted 28 July 2014 - 11:03 AM

I think we as baseball fans need to re-evaluate what we think of as good team batting statistics.  The game has changed, and it's a pitchers world, as evidenced by the fact that even the best team OBP is no more than what we would consider to be average on a player.  The O's can swing the bat.  The question is if they can keep pitching.


The kids are alright.

#9 weird-O

weird-O

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 14,462 posts
  • LocationI'm here from downtown, I'm here from Mitch and Murray.

Posted 28 July 2014 - 11:39 AM

There's also situational hitting, clutch hitting or whatever you call it. The orioles lead the majors (by a wide margin last time it was reported) in the dubious category for the percentage of runs scored by home runs. The reason I say dubious is because it indicates that they lack the capability to manufacture runs by any other method, other than hitting home runs. How often do we see a runner on 3B with 0 or 1 outs and they fail to score. It happened multiple times just in yesterday's game. Situations where not even a base hit was required to score the run. It's like the orioles hitters lock up in those situations. It should be the opposite, the pitcher is the guy who should be feeling the heat.

I've pointed out many times how fortunate the orioles are to win a series based on the number of runs they scored. Well, it happened again this weekend, winning 3 of the 4 games while averaging a paltry 3 runs per game. Where would this team be without the outstanding pitching they're getting? The answer to that is they'd be dead and buried by now.

I'm not discounting your points, but it's worth noting that offense is down around the whole sport. but I totally agree that they have zero ability to play small ball. this series with the M's was kind of embarrassing in that respect. there were multiple attempts to bunt, and all of them were just horrendous. but it seems like the bunt is a decaying relic of the past anyway. with all that said, for decades, the O's culture has been 2 bloops and a blast.


"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics." - Benjamin Disraeli

#10 JoyinMudville

JoyinMudville

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 4,069 posts
  • LocationBrooklyn

Posted 28 July 2014 - 02:14 PM

I think a couple of things have happened that have affected the O's offense.

 

1) I think they expected Lough's speed to be more of a factor but he's just been a nightmare offensively this year.

 

2) It's taken Machado a while to return to his doubles hitting form.

 

At this point, I do think Machado should slide back into the two hole.

 

In terms of average, Hardy has been having one of his best years but his power numbers are way down.

 

Finally, while Markakis has been doing a great job in terms of getting on base, he simply doesn't have the speed associated with your typical lead off hitter.



#11 TheJudgement

TheJudgement

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 22,544 posts

Posted 28 July 2014 - 06:01 PM

Does anyone remember last season Chris Davis talking about wanting to hit .300 and adjusting his swing to do that, and then he went on that HR tear?
Maybe he should remember that approach.

Edited by TheJudgement, 28 July 2014 - 06:01 PM.


#12 soulflower

soulflower

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 53,267 posts

Posted 28 July 2014 - 06:29 PM

It seems like every team is struggling offensively this year. And there's some truth to that assumption because Runs Per Game is at or near pre-94 levels. 

 

"Hitters in M.L.B. This Season Have Struggled at Historic Rates"

 

The O's are an above average hitting team in the current climate which is dominated by pitching and defense...


"...reality has a well-known liberal bias"

#13 85Knight

85Knight

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 5,315 posts

Posted 28 July 2014 - 08:26 PM

It seems like every team is struggling offensively this year. And there's some truth to that assumption because Runs Per Game is at or near pre-94 levels.

"Hitters in M.L.B. This Season Have Struggled at Historic Rates"

The O's are an above average hitting team in the current climate which is dominated by pitching and defense...


The O's are not above average when it comes to runs scored. We are no. 7 out of 15 teams in the AL. Scoring is definitely down in all of baseball but we have our own problems.

#14 soulflower

soulflower

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 53,267 posts

Posted 29 July 2014 - 05:28 AM

The O's are not above average when it comes to runs scored. We are no. 7 out of 15 teams in the AL. Scoring is definitely down in all of baseball but we have our own problems.


They're not the best offense but they're among the better offensive teams in baseball this season.
"...reality has a well-known liberal bias"

#15 CROUSEMAN

CROUSEMAN

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,359 posts

Posted 29 July 2014 - 07:50 AM

4. The O's are a great homerun hitting team that struggles to manufacture runs any other way.

The math is pretty simple. When we hit 2 HR's or more we usually win. When we hit no HR's we usually lose. When we hit 1 it's 50/50.

The reason is also simple. We have no team speed and we don't walk or bunt much. Despite leading the league in HR's we're near the bottom in doubles and triples and at the bottom in steals. Add all this up and it makes us a station to station team that struggles to be creative on the base paths.

How do we fix it? I have no clue.

I agree with this one.  Which leads me to believe we will be in major trouble come post-season when good pitching usually limits the long ball.  We had same approach in 2012 and scored a whopping 10 runs in 5 games against Yanks.  Cruz and Young are proven post=season hitters which may help.  On the other hand Davis is a shell of himself and could be an automatic out in the middle of the line-up. 



#16 weird-O

weird-O

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 14,462 posts
  • LocationI'm here from downtown, I'm here from Mitch and Murray.

Posted 29 July 2014 - 08:28 AM

I agree with this one.  Which leads me to believe we will be in major trouble come post-season when good pitching usually limits the long ball.  We had same approach in 2012 and scored a whopping 10 runs in 5 games against Yanks.  Cruz and Young are proven post=season hitters which may help.  On the other hand Davis is a shell of himself and could be an automatic out in the middle of the line-up. 

all good point.

 

I really believe in the strength of experience. think about Eddie in '79 compared to '83. I think the 2012 team was a little taken by the moment of playing in Oct. many of these guys were on the 2012 team, so I think they will have better results if they get to Oct this year.


"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics." - Benjamin Disraeli

#17 Far from home

Far from home

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 16,053 posts

Posted 29 July 2014 - 08:44 AM

 


1. We're one of the best hitting teams in the league (from a thread started in early season)
2. This team simply cannot hit
3. Neither  -- "Good pitching will always stop good hitting and vice-versa." (from Casey Stengel)  


None of the above.

The O's can hit, but they can't draw a walk.
I would propose
4. The team's inability to draw walks makes the offense streaky, and prone to dependance on the long ball.
Ideological gravy trains lead to poor decisions.
Learn from the last President, and make this next era one of rebuilding what has been torn down.
Instead of being loyal to your party, be loyal to your country and your people.

#18 weird-O

weird-O

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 14,462 posts
  • LocationI'm here from downtown, I'm here from Mitch and Murray.

Posted 29 July 2014 - 09:09 AM

 
None of the above.

The O's can hit, but they can't draw a walk.
I would propose
4. The team's inability to draw walks makes the offense streaky, and prone to dependance on the long ball.

remember when having a team of bruisers was good thing?

 

the game has evolved a good bit since the '90's


"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics." - Benjamin Disraeli

#19 soulflower

soulflower

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 53,267 posts

Posted 29 July 2014 - 09:31 AM

remember when having a team of bruisers was good thing?

the game has evolved a good bit since the '90's


The Cleveland Indians and Texas Rangers teams of the 90s had awesome offensive stats but they never won anything.

Pitching and Defense still ruled the playoffs
"...reality has a well-known liberal bias"

#20 weird-O

weird-O

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 14,462 posts
  • LocationI'm here from downtown, I'm here from Mitch and Murray.

Posted 29 July 2014 - 10:22 AM

The Cleveland Indians and Texas Rangers teams of the 90s had awesome offensive stats but they never won anything.

Pitching and Defense still ruled the playoffs

true, but the Indians got to a couple of WS with those teams. that's pretty good.


"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics." - Benjamin Disraeli




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users