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Apple Dominates Microsoft

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#21 boink

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Posted 08 February 2015 - 06:41 AM

Microsoft Excel, essentially an updated version of VisiCalc.......

 

I can't think of a single Microsoft product that another company or organization didn't create first.

 

 

 

http://en.wikipedia....ternet_Explorer

 

VisiCalc was the first spreadsheet computer program, originally released for the Apple II. It is often considered the application that turned the microcomputer from a hobby for computer enthusiasts into a serious business tool, and is considered the Apple II's killer app. VisiCalc sold over 700,000 copies in six years, and as many as 1 million copies over its history.



#22 boink

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Posted 08 February 2015 - 06:46 AM

It's 2015. not 1988. Join us in the 21st century

 

 

You're not using Windows and Excel in 2015?


Edited by boink, 08 February 2015 - 07:03 AM.


#23 ivanbalt

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Posted 08 February 2015 - 10:19 AM

Microsoft Excel, essentially an updated version of VisiCalc.......

 

I can't think of a single Microsoft product that another company or organization didn't create first.

 

 

 

http://en.wikipedia....ternet_Explorer

 

VisiCalc was the first spreadsheet computer program, originally released for the Apple II. It is often considered the application that turned the microcomputer from a hobby for computer enthusiasts into a serious business tool, and is considered the Apple II's killer app. VisiCalc sold over 700,000 copies in six years, and as many as 1 million copies over its history.

 

You really don't know how the software industry works do you?  And you obviously had no rebuttal to the facts I pointed out about Apple not inventing any of their flagship products?

 

Look at any of the major software companies and they all work the same way.  Acquire/license new ideas, apply resources, improve and market.  Google didn't invent search.  Google didn't invent web-based advertising.  Google didn't invent web-based email, etc.

 

It's popular on the interwebs to crap on Microsoft for operating just like every other technology company.



#24 bmore_ken

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Posted 08 February 2015 - 12:10 PM

You're not using Windows and Excel in 2015?

Apple is a hardware company in 2015, not a software company. End of comparison. Every product starts somewhere and the product is often improved and refined, often by other companies. It's the American way, get over it. Most of Apple's products made today weren't invented by Apple as Ivan already pointed out, so they've done plenty of copying themselves by your logic


Edited by bmore_ken, 08 February 2015 - 12:12 PM.

Secretary of State Hillary Clinton. It has a nice sound to it

Suggs has signed. I've never been so happy to be wrong

Don't blame me, I voted Bob Barr:cool:

#25 boink

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Posted 10 February 2015 - 06:17 AM

Apple now closing in on Samsung.

 

 

http://bits.blogs.ny...port-says/?_r=0

 

Apple Grabs 93% of the Handset Industry’s Profit, Report Says

 

By BRIAN X. CHEN date published FEBRUARY 9, 2015 3:44 PM

 

Apple’s record-breaking holiday quarter, which brought in $18 billion in earnings, allowed the company to capture 93 percent of the profit in the handset industry, according to a new report from Canaccord Genuity, an investment firm.

 

Samsung took the rest, but its share is shrinking, the report said…

 

…The upshot of the report is that Samsung is losing ground in its fight with Apple for smartphone dominance. Samsung still sells more cellphones than any other company. But its profit is eroding because Apple is eating into its sales of high-end smartphones, a trend that is likely to continue after the enormous success of the iPhone 6 and iPhone 6 Plus. Both iPhones, which include bigger screens, gave Apple a huge boost in China, an important market for Samsung.



#26 alienrace

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Posted 11 February 2015 - 09:06 AM

Each of those articles reads like a fanboy publication. Sure, Apple closed the gap last quarter because of the boost by the iPhone6, but I would wait and see if that is an actual trend, or a temporary bump, just like all previous iPhone releases.

No question the iPhone6 was a success though. They had to make that screen bigger to compete with other smartphones, and it paid off. (now if they'd only allow other OS's to run on their phones, then they'd have something special).
The time has come for a centrist political party. Rational Americans are not comfortable with extreme views to the left or to the right, and our current parties have no intentions of ever abandoning their ever increasing distance from sane, reasonable thinking.

#27 tkr

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Posted 14 February 2015 - 10:41 AM

One of Apples biggest selling points was Viruses. It had a better armor against a virus than the PC. Now this may all be gone but what it did do right was get into the early childhood developing system. Kids in schools learned on Apple and when these generations got older they swore by them. Very smart marketing if you ask me.



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Posted 16 February 2015 - 08:43 AM

One of Apples biggest selling points was Viruses. It had a better armor against a virus than the PC. Now this may all be gone but what it did do right was get into the early childhood developing system. Kids in schools learned on Apple and when these generations got older they swore by them. Very smart marketing if you ask me.

IMO the main thing Apple has over PC right now is marketing and I think Microsoft is on the right track with its Windows 10 addition that will be a free upgrade for most PC users.  The same operating system is designed to work on laptops, phones, tablets, etc. I have been testing it and it does have some quirks at times, but they are minor ones IMO and to date my computer hasn't ever crashed or frozen. I have a yoga 2 pro and the main issue I have had - which is an easy fix for me - is sometimes when I reboot my screen will be upside down. I have mentioned this to the Microsoft developers and they are working on it and will probably fix it before it goes public.

 

If Microsoft does it right (and that is a big if), it may give Apple a run for its money. Of course, as you noted, it will be an uphill battle as Apple is a superior marketing company. Marketing often beats quality and ease.



#29 alienrace

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Posted 16 February 2015 - 11:13 AM

IMO the main thing Apple has over PC right now is marketing and I think Microsoft is on the right track with its Windows 10 addition that will be a free upgrade for most PC users.  The same operating system is designed to work on laptops, phones, tablets, etc. I have been testing it and it does have some quirks at times, but they are minor ones IMO and to date my computer hasn't ever crashed or frozen. I have a yoga 2 pro and the main issue I have had - which is an easy fix for me - is sometimes when I reboot my screen will be upside down. I have mentioned this to the Microsoft developers and they are working on it and will probably fix it before it goes public.
 
If Microsoft does it right (and that is a big if), it may give Apple a run for its money. Of course, as you noted, it will be an uphill battle as Apple is a superior marketing company. Marketing often beats quality and ease.


I'm not sure I follow your post here - Apple has nothing *over* Microsoft in the PC arena, Microsoft/Intel/AMD still dominate that category, and if you go by devices sold, Apple is still lagging behind Microsoft overall, and both are FAR behind Google.

http://www.fool.com/...econd-plac.aspx
The time has come for a centrist political party. Rational Americans are not comfortable with extreme views to the left or to the right, and our current parties have no intentions of ever abandoning their ever increasing distance from sane, reasonable thinking.

#30 bmore_ken

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Posted 16 February 2015 - 12:54 PM

I'm not sure I follow your post here - Apple has nothing *over* Microsoft in the PC arena, Microsoft/Intel/AMD still dominate that category, and if you go by devices sold, Apple is still lagging behind Microsoft overall, and both are FAR behind Google.

http://www.fool.com/...econd-plac.aspx

That's why I said before , I don't understand the MS to Apple comparison in any way. MS doesn't sell computers. If you're talking operating systems, the Linux /Mac OS revolution never quite happened as predicted. There's simply no way to compare the two companies in any meaningful way


Secretary of State Hillary Clinton. It has a nice sound to it

Suggs has signed. I've never been so happy to be wrong

Don't blame me, I voted Bob Barr:cool:

#31 aok

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Posted 16 February 2015 - 01:36 PM

In school I was taught the CP on an Apple. All schools had them back in the 80's. So as a kid this is what you were taught. Later I was so comfortable using an Apple that when I needed one for College I never thought of anything else. So you see we are a habit forming society and Apple did well by supplying schools with their products.



#32 alienrace

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Posted 16 February 2015 - 02:20 PM

In school I was taught the CP on an Apple. All schools had them back in the 80's. So as a kid this is what you were taught. Later I was so comfortable using an Apple that when I needed one for College I never thought of anything else. So you see we are a habit forming society and Apple did well by supplying schools with their products.


It's probably what kept them alive long enough to shift focus to an arena they could profit in. Apple's relevance in the PC market started dying in the 90's though, and today it's barely even relevant. Ken is right, comparing Apple to Microsoft is really kind of pointless now as Apple has shifted from the PC world years ago. Apple's OS accounts for a very paltry 3.45 percent of the PC market now ( http://www.windows8c...c-market-share/ ) and it's progressively going down. Only the hardcore loyalists who grew up with Macs are keeping them alive at all really, it's only a matter of time before Apple stops making PC's that run their OS. There's not much room for them, and it's their own, rather idiotic proprietary philosophy that doomed them. While the rest of the PC world was getting busy getting compatible, Apple was arrogantly proclaiming their superiority by keeping their OS exclusive to their hardware, and their hardware exclusive to their OS. When their market share dipped into the single digits, they caved and began allowing Windows to run on Macs, but that only served to alienate their fanbase by making them a over-priced alternative to Dell and HP(two other overpriced PC brands). Before they knew it, the advantages they had in the realm of graphics and sound were long gone, and in fact lagging behind when video card makers like Nvidia, 3DFX, and ATI started making huge technology leaps for Intel/AMD based systems.

I'd venture to say that eventually Apple will ditch the PC platform altogether at some point. It's a battle they lost, and they have put all of their chips into the iPhone. As others have said, it's a major risk to put all of your chips into one basket, but it's really all they've got at the moment going for them(and it's going well, profit wise). Their marketing is good - they certainly have the trendy, young crowd(I'm always amazed at how it seems like everyone under 30 has an iPhone, or those that are more "fashion" oriented). What has to be unsettling is that Google is still dominant with Android, and likely to continue that, but worse - is the Microsoft is looking to put a lot more into this arena in the future. All of this looks eerily like how things went down with the PC - with Apple sticking to their proprietary OS, while another asserts itself as being the dominant platform(Android). Apple is probably going to have to start making lower end phones as well to compete in the future.

Ken has it right - Apple is a hardware company - and at some point they'll have to truly start acting like one.
The time has come for a centrist political party. Rational Americans are not comfortable with extreme views to the left or to the right, and our current parties have no intentions of ever abandoning their ever increasing distance from sane, reasonable thinking.

#33 Underseige

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Posted 16 February 2015 - 04:18 PM

Well listen to you tech wizards talk. Google and Apple are two of the most advanced tech companies around. Apple has more product ideas than any other with Google a close second. I think some on here should get facts not what they believe in. Facts are funny, we use them when we want to. Apple my friends is only getting better and the stock will reach $200 by the end of the 3rd quarter. Google has stayed at their price for 6 months now, Apple has gone up unbelievably. Yes both are doing well but to say Apple is done is a ludicrous statement that amateurs use.



#34 ivanbalt

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Posted 16 February 2015 - 04:35 PM

In school I was taught the CP on an Apple. All schools had them back in the 80's. So as a kid this is what you were taught. Later I was so comfortable using an Apple that when I needed one for College I never thought of anything else. So you see we are a habit forming society and Apple did well by supplying schools with their products.

 

I remember typing up a paper in one lab in high school on a Mac with Word and then learning I couldn't finish it in the other lab because it wasn't compatible with Windows' Word or Works.  I was quite pissed that I had to start over.  Avoided Macs for the longest time after that.



#35 ivanbalt

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Posted 16 February 2015 - 04:39 PM

Well listen to you tech wizards talk. Google and Apple are two of the most advanced tech companies around. Apple has more product ideas than any other with Google a close second. I think some on here should get facts not what they believe in. Facts are funny, we use them when we want to. Apple my friends is only getting better and the stock will reach $200 by the end of the 3rd quarter. Google has stayed at their price for 6 months now, Apple has gone up unbelievably. Yes both are doing well but to say Apple is done is a ludicrous statement that amateurs use.

 

Apple isn't done by any stretch, but how do they have more product ideas than any other?  There's only so far that their phones/tablets will advance so what's next?  A watch?  Maybe a tv?

 

Note: technological advancement isn't the same as financial advancement.



#36 alienrace

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Posted 16 February 2015 - 06:33 PM

Well listen to you tech wizards talk. Google and Apple are two of the most advanced tech companies around. Apple has more product ideas than any other with Google a close second. I think some on here should get facts not what they believe in. Facts are funny, we use them when we want to. Apple my friends is only getting better and the stock will reach $200 by the end of the 3rd quarter. Google has stayed at their price for 6 months now, Apple has gone up unbelievably. Yes both are doing well but to say Apple is done is a ludicrous statement that amateurs use.


The facts are what they are - Apple has 3.45 percent of the PC market share. Yes, as a viable PC platform, they are on life support.

Fact - Android commands 84% of the smartphone market share (in device units - not revenues). Apple has been in steady decline, with a bump in the 4th quarter of 2014 with the launch of the iPhone 6/6+ but still less than last year at 11.7 percent. Source - http://www.enukesoft...-share-in-2014/

Apple's revenues are up because their phones are high-end and getting them large profits. This isn't entirely good because other phone companies, particularly Samsung and a few in China are putting out lower end units that have been eating up unit sales totals. Samsung, while still strong, is facing fierce competition from Chinese phone manufacturers, and had to do it to keep up.

For historical comparisons, and why people worry(or should be worried) about Apple is because this is very reminiscent to the late 80's to early 90's, when Apple had about a 15 percent market share of PC's. The parallels are interesting, and compelling. iPhone = Macintosh(and running Apple's OS). Android = Windows(and running on a variety of manufacturer's devices). The iPhone, like the Mac is the more expensive option, and caters to those willing to pay the extra to have their iProduct, based largely on brand loyalty(aka, Fanboism).

The other thing that is, or should be worrisome for Apple investers/enthusiasts, is that their OS is proprietary and closed. Android on the otherhand, is Linux based, and fully open sourced. One OS has a paid team of developers, the other is open to the entire world to advance, and who do so enthusiastically for both profit and principal.

Honestly, I would not invest my money in Apple or Google at the moment - they are both likely near their peaks. The wildcard is Microsoft, and the potential for them to make an inroad is pretty solid. The are gearing up to do exactly that. The question is, what other major OS does it hit the hardest? Many figure it to be Android, with Apple taking the smaller hit due to it's high brand loyalty. People "fiercely" love their iProducts. They wait in line for the newest one, because, it's the thing to do. They have, without question a rabid fanbase(sort of the Jeep of the techworld). Blackberry and Symbian are all but dead, and the rise of the Windows phone will smother their flame out. This might have happened sooner had Windows 8 not been such an epic fail, but word is the Windows 10 gets it right, and MS is getting ready to turn their attention more heavily to the smartphone arena.

Those are *facts*, and I've provided links to some of the articles I got them from. There's a host of information, and one can draw their own conclusions.

My *opinion* is that history could be repeating itself with Apple. Brand loyalty can only last so long, when your products are overpriced to drive up revenue shares, and said products are inferior(or about to be) to lower priced competition. Apple finally gave in and increased their screen size to compete with Samsung, after several years of lagging in that department, so they at least are on a hardware standpoint comparable to their brethren that they are competing against. The question every Apple investor, enthusiast, or fanboy needs to ask themselves is - will the price difference equate to a superior product in the eyes of future buyers? That was precisely what they believed would carry them in the early 90's - until it was realized their product's perceived superiority didn't justify the price. iPhone saved the Mac(Apple). What will save the iPhone if history repeats?
The time has come for a centrist political party. Rational Americans are not comfortable with extreme views to the left or to the right, and our current parties have no intentions of ever abandoning their ever increasing distance from sane, reasonable thinking.

#37 bmore_ken

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Posted 16 February 2015 - 06:57 PM

Well listen to you tech wizards talk. Google and Apple are two of the most advanced tech companies around. Apple has more product ideas than any other with Google a close second. I think some on here should get facts not what they believe in. Facts are funny, we use them when we want to. Apple my friends is only getting better and the stock will reach $200 by the end of the 3rd quarter. Google has stayed at their price for 6 months now, Apple has gone up unbelievably. Yes both are doing well but to say Apple is done is a ludicrous statement that amateurs use.

No one said Apple was done, who posted that? It's simply been said that Apple right now is basically a one trick pony. The Iphone. History tells us that Apple tends to ride the right horse for the times to keep it going. The Mac, The Ipod, now the Iphone. What happens when they hit that period that they don't figure out the next big thing


Edited by bmore_ken, 16 February 2015 - 07:02 PM.

Secretary of State Hillary Clinton. It has a nice sound to it

Suggs has signed. I've never been so happy to be wrong

Don't blame me, I voted Bob Barr:cool:

#38 boink

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Posted 16 February 2015 - 08:36 PM

The facts are what they are - Apple has 3.45 percent of the PC market share. Yes, as a viable PC platform, they are on life support.

Fact - Android commands 84% of the smartphone market share (in device units - not revenues). Apple has been in steady decline, with a bump in the 4th quarter of 2014 with the launch of the iPhone 6/6+ but still less than last year at 11.7 percent. Source - http://www.enukesoft...-share-in-2014/

Apple's revenues are up because their phones are high-end and getting them large profits. This isn't entirely good because other phone companies, particularly Samsung and a few in China are putting out lower end units that have been eating up unit sales totals. Samsung, while still strong, is facing fierce competition from Chinese phone manufacturers, and had to do it to keep up.

For historical comparisons, and why people worry(or should be worried) about Apple is because this is very reminiscent to the late 80's to early 90's, when Apple had about a 15 percent market share of PC's. The parallels are interesting, and compelling. iPhone = Macintosh(and running Apple's OS). Android = Windows(and running on a variety of manufacturer's devices). The iPhone, like the Mac is the more expensive option, and caters to those willing to pay the extra to have their iProduct, based largely on brand loyalty(aka, Fanboism).

The other thing that is, or should be worrisome for Apple investers/enthusiasts, is that their OS is proprietary and closed. Android on the otherhand, is Linux based, and fully open sourced. One OS has a paid team of developers, the other is open to the entire world to advance, and who do so enthusiastically for both profit and principal.

Honestly, I would not invest my money in Apple or Google at the moment - they are both likely near their peaks. The wildcard is Microsoft, and the potential for them to make an inroad is pretty solid. The are gearing up to do exactly that. The question is, what other major OS does it hit the hardest? Many figure it to be Android, with Apple taking the smaller hit due to it's high brand loyalty. People "fiercely" love their iProducts. They wait in line for the newest one, because, it's the thing to do. They have, without question a rabid fanbase(sort of the Jeep of the techworld). Blackberry and Symbian are all but dead, and the rise of the Windows phone will smother their flame out. This might have happened sooner had Windows 8 not been such an epic fail, but word is the Windows 10 gets it right, and MS is getting ready to turn their attention more heavily to the smartphone arena.

Those are *facts*, and I've provided links to some of the articles I got them from. There's a host of information, and one can draw their own conclusions.

My *opinion* is that history could be repeating itself with Apple. Brand loyalty can only last so long, when your products are overpriced to drive up revenue shares, and said products are inferior(or about to be) to lower priced competition. Apple finally gave in and increased their screen size to compete with Samsung, after several years of lagging in that department, so they at least are on a hardware standpoint comparable to their brethren that they are competing against. The question every Apple investor, enthusiast, or fanboy needs to ask themselves is - will the price difference equate to a superior product in the eyes of future buyers? That was precisely what they believed would carry them in the early 90's - until it was realized their product's perceived superiority didn't justify the price. iPhone saved the Mac(Apple). What will save the iPhone if history repeats?

 

 

You may want to double that 3.45 percent

 

 

http://www.afterdawn...g-strong-growth

 

IDC: Apple takes fifth place in global PC shipments following strong growth

 

Written by Andre Yoskowitz (Google+) @ 19 Jan 2015 23:20

 

Apple saw the biggest growth year-over-year, at 15.7 percent. The company sold almost 20 million Macs in 2014, good for 6.4 percent share.


Edited by boink, 16 February 2015 - 08:59 PM.


#39 boink

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Posted 16 February 2015 - 08:53 PM

True, Apple invents; MS copies.

 

I once heard MS described as a marketing company that sells software.

 

 

 

http://www.nytimes.c...-microsoft.html

 

How, and Why, Apple Overtook Microsoft

 

Microsoft has repeatedly tried to diversify, and continues to do so under Mr. Nadella. But “it’s been more of a follower whereas Apple has been more of a trendsetter, trying to reinvent an industry,” Mr. Sacconaghi said.



#40 bmore_ken

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Posted 16 February 2015 - 09:58 PM

You may want to double that 3.45 percent

 

 

http://www.afterdawn...g-strong-growth

 

IDC: Apple takes fifth place in global PC shipments following strong growth

 

Written by Andre Yoskowitz (Google+) @ 19 Jan 2015 23:20

 

Apple saw the biggest growth year-over-year, at 15.7 percent. The company sold almost 20 million Macs in 2014, good for 6.4 percent share.

A whopping 6%?  :o


Secretary of State Hillary Clinton. It has a nice sound to it

Suggs has signed. I've never been so happy to be wrong

Don't blame me, I voted Bob Barr:cool:




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