tooldtocare

The end of the Fossil Fuel era is upon us so what are we going to do next-?

116 posts in this topic

At the mid-Atlantic ridge the seawater lava is a liquid at temperatures of 1,200 °C (1,292 to 2,192 °F). And yet it does not flash into steam because of the great pressure it is under.

If we drop a tube down to the superhot seawater and start sucking it up it will expand as the pressure becomes less until it turns into steam with no place to go but up. The steam can then be used to turn turbines creating all the electrical energy the human race will ever need.

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China is joining France and Britain in announcing plans to end sales of gasoline and diesel cars.

China's industry ministry is developing a timetable to end production and sale of traditional fuel cars and will promote development of electric technology, state media on Sunday cited a Cabinet official as saying.

France and Britain announced in July they will stop sales of gasoline and diesel automobiles by 2040 as part of efforts to reduce pollution and carbon emissions that contribute to global warming.

Communist leaders also want to curb China's growing appetite for imported oil and see electric cars as a promising industry in which their country can take an early lead.

China passed the United States last year as the biggest electric car market. Sales of electrics and gasoline-electric hybrids rose 50 percent over 2015 to 336,000 vehicles, or 40 percent of global demand. U.S. sales totaled 159,620.

https://tinyurl.com/ycsg6xb6

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I am not an eco-freak....but I do concerm myself with pollution and such. My viewpoint is that it took us a while to get in this mess and it will take a while to get out of it.

I think it is great that Britian and France are leaning toward electric cars. More power to them. No pun intended.

Many will think....well geee why isn't the US doing the same thing. Answer INFRASTRUCTURE.

Those countries got the crap bombed out of them during WW2 and much of the infrastructure had to be rebuilt from scratch. Making theirs only about 65 years old (yeah war ended it could be 71 I am allowing for rebuild). Versus ours that is how old???????????? The same could be held true for Japan.

Simple example; why do ALL THOSE COUNTRIES have wonderful on time modern trains? And we don't.

But what am I talking about???????? As soon as Trump gets all his infrastructure bills passed.....we will be right on track. :rolleyes::lol:

Both puns intended this time. :lol:

Edited by Guido2

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Lemmee know when someone comes up with a Reactionless Drive..

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Everybody needs to start using less fossil fuels--now.

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3 hours ago, boink said:

Everybody needs to start using less fossil fuels--now.

Call your congressman and tell him you want a dozen nuke plants in your state to replace most of the coal.  Problem largely solved.  Putting in LEDs (I replaced two bulbs with LEDs today!) only slows the growth as our population swells and demand for energy grows.  

 

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On 9/10/2017 at 11:45 AM, Guido2 said:

I am not an eco-freak....but I do concerm myself with pollution and such. My viewpoint is that it took us a while to get in this mess and it will take a while to get out of it.

I think it is great that Britian and France are leaning toward electric cars. More power to them. No pun intended.

Many will think....well geee why isn't the US doing the same thing. Answer INFRASTRUCTURE.

Those countries got the crap bombed out of them during WW2 and much of the infrastructure had to be rebuilt from scratch. Making theirs only about 65 years old (yeah war ended it could be 71 I am allowing for rebuild). Versus ours that is how old???????????? The same could be held true for Japan.

Simple example; why do ALL THOSE COUNTRIES have wonderful on time modern trains? And we don't.

But what am I talking about???????? As soon as Trump gets all his infrastructure bills passed.....we will be right on track. :rolleyes::lol:

Both puns intended this time. :lol:

What source of energy is tapped to recharge all those battery operated vehicles?

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7 hours ago, volperdinger said:

What source of energy is tapped to recharge all those battery operated vehicles?

Tell me If I am reading you correctly.

I think what you maybe saying is......it is all well and good to have electric vehicles, however as ours (and Europes?) grid exist at the moment. Fossil fuels still have to be burned in one form or another? Due to the fact that power for the 'clean' batteries has to come from somewhere. And...although there are exceptions....re-newable is still in toddler stage for most countries/states (well except for Calif it seems good that way) and nuclear is a no no (well except for Japan)...which is ironic when you think about it.

So the bottom line is......either cars burn it or the plants burn it....so it is a wash? At least at this point in time?

Sidebar: I wish I could find the articles I read some time back about some drawbacks of electrics besides range and recharging.

They pointed out that besides the cost of purchase in general of most electric cars worth their salt. The is a hidden skeleton in the closet about electrics. That is the batteries....making them and eventually having to dispose of them...is a bio-hazard/polloutant hazard that no one talks about.....that an electric in that respect is almost as twice of bad as a conventional car to make and the pollutants it kicks out over the life of driving it.

So yeah.... you are driving nice and clean. However like anything there are no free lunches....in the case of electrics....the pollutants are worse....they are just on the front end and the back end of the cars lifespan.

Not the articles I was referring to....but a good read.

https://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/hold-smugness-tesla-might-just-worse-environment-know/

Also an important point....the war in Afghanistan......REALLY. Guess who has the best source of lithium?

 

 

Edited by Guido2

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On ‎12‎/‎12‎/‎2015 at 0:40 PM, MiddleOfTheRoad said:

I'm going to buy a car and if the deal is right, will buy a hybrid...but only if the deal is right,  We are at least two generations away from the end of the fossil fuel era.

This is true. My grandchildren will be around to feel the effects but I will be long gone; so yes, why in the hell should I care?

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On ‎9‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 10:45 AM, Guido2 said:

I am not an eco-freak....but .,.,.,.,.

But what am I talking about???????? As soon as Trump gets all his infrastructure bills passed.....we will be right on track. :rolleyes::lol:

Both puns intended this time. :lol:

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

(:-

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On 12/12/2015 at 0:57 PM, HowAreWeGoingToPay said:

I wonder how much oil (energy) was used to make, and deliver and install those panels. Not to mention the energy used to keep you powered at night, and cloudy days, or even just running an air conditioner.

Solar is fun, but isn't the replacement for fossil fuels.

Solar is poisonously polluting.  Maybe not with CO2 (like cows which spew from both ends) but the manufacture requires absolutely nasty chemical processes producing a ton of toxic waste.  And when the panels wear out, they are themselves toxic waste.  I have not seen a recent update but 10-15 years ago, a solar cell required more fossil fuel to manufacture than it would produce during it's lifetime.  And of course there is the chemical waste spewing from both ends of its life.  

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On 9/11/2017 at 7:03 PM, jdsample said:

Call your congressman and tell him you want a dozen nuke plants in your state to replace most of the coal.  Problem largely solved.  Putting in LEDs (I replaced two bulbs with LEDs today!) only slows the growth as our population swells and demand for energy grows.  

 

It’s interesting. I am on a phone so i can’t provide documentation at the moment but i have read in several places that california’s energy demand has been flat over the last couple of decades even as their economy and gdp have grown substantially. All via efficiency measures.

i do agree that we’ll need sources of energy but i do think there remain great advances to be hadfrom efficiency

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7 hours ago, jdsample said:

Solar is poisonously polluting.  Maybe not with CO2 (like cows which spew from both ends) but the manufacture requires absolutely nasty chemical processes producing a ton of toxic waste.  And when the panels wear out, they are themselves toxic waste.  I have not seen a recent update but 10-15 years ago, a solar cell required more fossil fuel to manufacture than it would produce during it's lifetime.  And of course there is the chemical waste spewing from both ends of its life.  

If that was ever true it is certainly not true now. Again, not on my computer but i’d be interested in seeing the life expectancy of today’s pv cells

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7 hours ago, jdsample said:

Solar is poisonously polluting.  Maybe not with CO2 (like cows which spew from both ends) but the manufacture requires absolutely nasty chemical processes producing a ton of toxic waste.  And when the panels wear out, they are themselves toxic waste.  I have not seen a recent update but 10-15 years ago, a solar cell required more fossil fuel to manufacture than it would produce during it's lifetime.  And of course there is the chemical waste spewing from both ends of its life.  

What about pv cells are polluting?

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4 hours ago, JoyinMudville said:

If that was ever true it is certainly not true now. Again, not on my computer but i’d be interested in seeing the life expectancy of today’s pv cells

Mine are under a 20 year warranty.

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14 hours ago, jdsample said:

Solar is poisonously polluting.  Maybe not with CO2 (like cows which spew from both ends) but the manufacture requires absolutely nasty chemical processes producing a ton of toxic waste.  And when the panels wear out, they are themselves toxic waste.  I have not seen a recent update but 10-15 years ago, a solar cell required more fossil fuel to manufacture than it would produce during it's lifetime.  And of course there is the chemical waste spewing from both ends of its life.  

Pretty much what I said earlier regarding electric cars.

I don't dismiss that panels and electric cars are not the future. But they are NOT at this present time the be-all 'solution' eco-freaks present.

To me....especially with cars.....it is more 'show' than go and feeling good.

Hey look at me ....I spent 3 times as much for my car just so I feel good about the ecology. Not realizing the eco hazards it created and will when it is finally scrapped are likely worse than any gas burner.

To me...fuel cells in cars might be more viable. But then you have the 'fuel' infrastructure thingy ...that is oxygen, hydorgen and in some cases a form of peroxide. FCs run much cleaner in fact depending on which type they produce two things....electricity.....water (clean almost distilled water) but you need hydrogen and oxygen. Why do you think they are used on manned space craft. It is a very clean/closed system.

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21 hours ago, tooldtocare said:

This is true. My grandchildren will be around to feel the effects but I will be long gone; so yes, why in the hell should I care?

We are two generations away even if the other than fossil fuel technology was ready to replace oil today, which it isn’t. Replacing the infrastructure for delivering energy to mobile users will take 50 years to put in place.

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5 hours ago, Guido2 said:

Pretty much what I said earlier regarding electric cars.

I don't dismiss that panels and electric cars are not the future. But they are NOT at this present time the be-all 'solution' eco-freaks present.

To me....especially with cars.....it is more 'show' than go and feeling good.

Hey look at me ....I spent 3 times as much for my car just so I feel good about the ecology. Not realizing the eco hazards it created and will when it is finally scrapped are likely worse than any gas burner.

To me...fuel cells in cars might be more viable. But then you have the 'fuel' infrastructure thingy ...that is oxygen, hydorgen and in some cases a form of peroxide. FCs run much cleaner in fact depending on which type they produce two things....electricity.....water (clean almost distilled water) but you need hydrogen and oxygen. Why do you think they are used on manned space craft. It is a very clean/closed system.

I agree.  A hydrogen based energy system is the only one that will work in a mobile society such as ours.

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On 8/22/2017 at 6:24 PM, tooldtocare said:

At the mid-Atlantic ridge the seawater lava is a liquid at temperatures of 1,200 °C (1,292 to 2,192 °F). And yet it does not flash into steam because of the great pressure it is under.

If we drop a tube down to the superhot seawater and start sucking it up it will expand as the pressure becomes less until it turns into steam with no place to go but up. The steam can then be used to turn turbines creating all the electrical energy the human race will ever need.

Thermodynamically that is true.  Chemically, you are in real trouble.  How do you get the minerals and salt out of the steam?  Your turbines will last about half an hour.  OK, so you build a heat exchanger using the sea water steam to boil highly purified water producing clean steam for the turbines.  The heat exchangers will still be a nightmare but at least you don't have precision moving parts bathed in highly corrosive superheated steam.  Now you have power being generated.  OK.  How are you going to get it to Baltimore?  How are you going to get it to Los Angeles?  And how many ships are you going to need to park in the middle of the Atlantic to replace the entire energy needs of the United States?  And they can't exactly anchor there.  They will have to use their propulsion to maintain their station.  And every year or so return to port for maintenance.  And then what happens when a storm hits the mid Atlantic?  Power for the entire country all goes out at once.  I could go on, but if it were easy, it would already be done.  

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Found this from California...

Quote

Overall, statewide electricity consumption in 2014 grew by almost 1 percent over the previous year, totaling 281,916 gigawatt hours (GWh). This modest growth in electricity consumption from 2013 to 2014 was maintained while employment grew more than twice as much, by 2.3 percent, and California’s gross state product grew at about the same pace (2.27 percent).1 Job growth also outpaced electricity consumption from 2000 to 2014, during which employment grew 8.4 percent and electricity consumption grew 7.5 percent. Between 2000 and 2014, California's gross state product grew by 27 percent—over three times as fast as electricity consumption during the same period. The gross state product increased from $1.7 trillion in 2000 (2009 dollars) to $2.1 trillion in in 2014 (2009 dollars). Meanwhile, the state’s population grew from about 34 million in 2000 to 38.8 million in 2014. 

http://www.energy.ca.gov/renewables/tracking_progress/

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In my view this is what is going to happen~~~~~~

 Cars will have a large battery, rectangle in shape imbedded in the bottom of the car.  When you pull up to a filling station you pull up or over a battery exchanger. The automated exchanger removes the discharged batter and inserts a charged one. You are in turn charged for the charging costs.

This will be the future for cars.

(:-

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On 11/5/2017 at 1:16 AM, JoyinMudville said:

What about pv cells are polluting?

https://spectrum.ieee.org/green-tech/solar/solar-energy-isnt-always-as-green-as-you-think

The above is actually written by an advocate of solar, though not a religious zealot about it.  

https://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/energy/2014/11/141111-solar-panel-manufacturing-sustainability-ranking/

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/449026/solar-panel-waste-environmental-threat-clean-energy

I've thought seriously about putting an array on my roof simply because the government subsidies would pay the way.  But I decided if I did it I would lease to own them rather than buying them outright.  I didn't want to face maintenance, and if you own them and they are attached to the house, they are a liability for your home owners insurance.  Rent them and when you get baseball-sized hail or a tornado, it is the the solar company's dime.  Finally I looked at what I would save in electricity and it was negligible at first, and slowly grows over the years.  But looking closer, I found those projections were based on annual rate increases by the power grid as estimated by the solar company.  So a quick look at the historical rate increases over the last 30-40 years, and I found there were no years at all in which the rate increases  matched what the solar salesman told us was going to be the average annual increase in the future.  

So in spite of all the government benefits & subsidies and the smug satisfaction of seeing my roof loaded down with silicon panels indicating my moral superiority, I am back to "Frack, baby frack, gas plant inferno!"  At least for now.  

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On ‎11‎/‎5‎/‎2017 at 1:32 PM, MiddleOfTheRoad said:

We are two generations away even if the other than fossil fuel technology was ready to replace oil today, which it isn’t. Replacing the infrastructure for delivering energy to mobile users will take 50 years to put in place.

If we continue to consume oil at the rate we are now consuming it, we will use up all known oil reserves within 40-45 years. Your 50 year time frame is a bit optimistic to say the least.

(:-

 

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13 minutes ago, tooldtocare said:

If we continue to consume oil at the rate we are now consuming it, we will use up all known oil reserves within 40-45 years. Your 50 year time frame is a bit optimistic to say the least.

(:-

 

They said the same thing 50 years ago.  

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35 minutes ago, jdsample said:

They said the same thing 50 years ago.  

As important as this topic is I suggest you look into this yourself and not rely on others. You could start by googling:

(A) total world oil reserves

(B) total world annual oil consumption

Divide (B) into (A) = how long we have until it's all gone

(:-

 

 

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