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outerbanks

O's MASN Profit Figures Are Astounding

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Too bad for the Nats with that one sided deal.

 

Then again, that's what happens when a new team is introduced into another's market.

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Too bad for the Nats with that one sided deal.

 

Then again, that's what happens when a new team is introduced into another's market.

I never liked the idea that one team owns the media rights to another team. With that said, they signed the contract. End of story. Unless...

 

 

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Don't worry...as I recall, the experts here said they wouldn't draw any fans and won't last.

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I've said before, they should have made it 50-50 split or something close to that, in the beginning, and then be done with it. With Pete everything is screw them, I've got mine. But they won't necessarily benefit when it's their business partners they're screwing with. The Nats are partners in essence because of it's a shared baseball market and the TV deal is shared - albeit unevenly. I predict Pete, and by extension the Orioles, will get kicked in boys before all is said and done. In Angelos' case it will be a well-deserved kick.

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I never liked the idea that one team owns the media rights to another team. With that said, they signed the contract. End of story. Unless...

 

 

 

Run, Kay. As fast as you can. :D

Edited by Gizmo

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Don't worry...as I recall, the experts here said they wouldn't draw any fans and won't last.

To be fair, there was a bit of history behind that. I don't recall my comments back then but I do recall wondering if both teams could survive at the same time. I still wonder what the long-term implications will be. IMO MLB is on a bubble and it could burst sometime in the next few seasons. Those multi-billion dollar deals may not be as lucrative in the future as more and more people turn away from traditional cable/satellite, etc.

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I've been as critical of Peter as almost anybody over the last 15 years... but I don't fault him / the Orioles one bit for playing hardball with MLB on the DC market and the terms they entered in to regarding ownership and media rights.

 

Doesn't mean I don't think he was late to the game standing up MASN, and hasn't invested enough of that money back in to the Orioles until now... but I don't fault them one bit for seeking the current arrangement, which the Nationals / MLB agreed to, to ensure they stand to profit most.

 

It's interesting, in that article they sort of lament the idea that the Orioles continue to leverage the "small to medium market" tag for profit-sharing purposes.  It's hard to have it both ways... if they were truly "big market", which frankly they had sort of become prior to the arrival of the Nationals... then the Nationals wouldn't exist!  The Orioles would still "own" the territory down in to Virginia and probably parts of North Carolina.  But... the Nationals DO exist, splitting that territory and frankly took over more heavily populated / wealthy part of it... so it is what it is.  The MASN / media rights agreement that cleared the way for the Nationals basically made the Orioles a small / mid market team again... but one that stands to gain financially from the larger market too.

 

Again... in an arrangement that MLB and the Nationals organization AGREED TO up-front.  

 

Doesn't excuse in my mind his failures, until now anyway, in investing that money back in to the Orioles...

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I've been as critical of Peter as almost anybody over the last 15 years... but I don't fault him / the Orioles one bit for playing hardball with MLB on the DC market and the terms they entered in to regarding ownership and media rights.

 

Doesn't mean I don't think he was late to the game standing up MASN, and hasn't invested enough of that money back in to the Orioles until now... but I don't fault them one bit for seeking the current arrangement, which the Nationals / MLB agreed to, to ensure they stand to profit most.

 

It's interesting, in that article they sort of lament the idea that the Orioles continue to leverage the "small to medium market" tag for profit-sharing purposes.  It's hard to have it both ways... if they were truly "big market", which frankly they had sort of become prior to the arrival of the Nationals... then the Nationals wouldn't exist!  The Orioles would still "own" the territory down in to Virginia and probably parts of North Carolina.  But... the Nationals DO exist, splitting that territory and frankly took over more heavily populated / wealthy part of it... so it is what it is.  The MASN / media rights agreement that cleared the way for the Nationals basically made the Orioles a small / mid market team again... but one that stands to gain financially from the larger market too.

 

Again... in an arrangement that MLB and the Nationals organization AGREED TO up-front.  

 

Doesn't excuse in my mind his failures, until now anyway, in investing that money back in to the Orioles...

Most of NC is their territory. I cannot get Orioles games through legal means here because the games from MLB.com are blacked out even thought the local cable system doesn't carry them either,

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I've said before, they should have made it 50-50 split or something close to that, in the beginning, and then be done with it. With Pete everything is screw them, I've got mine. But they won't necessarily benefit when it's their business partners they're screwing with. The Nats are partners in essence because of it's a shared baseball market and the TV deal is shared - albeit unevenly. I predict Pete, and by extension the Orioles, will get kicked in boys before all is said and done. In Angelos' case it will be a well-deserved kick.

 

Right, so "greedy Pete" should have given up 2/3rds of one of the the nation's top 5 markets (the richer part) with a 50/50 split of revenue from a channel that he was going to pony up the money to stand up.  All of that under pressure from scumbag Selig to make a deal because they wanted a team in DC.  

Meanwhile, when TB was stood up they maintained market access rights to Boston and NY for the Tampa region, and they probably did the same for the Marlins. 

They also have overlapping markets in much of the country, including Omaha, where KC and Minnesota both lay claim, even though Minnesota is a nine-hour drive away. 

 

The greedy thing Pete did was to sell a crappy product to the fanbase as good, while subjecting the team to a micromanaging style and hoarding money away from infrastructure and team facility improvements, while claiming the fanbase that watched all of this happen and protested as a second fiddle fanbase to the fair-weather Boston fans. 

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I've been as critical of Peter as almost anybody over the last 15 years... but I don't fault him / the Orioles one bit for playing hardball with MLB on the DC market and the terms they entered in to regarding ownership and media rights.

 

Doesn't mean I don't think he was late to the game standing up MASN, and hasn't invested enough of that money back in to the Orioles until now... but I don't fault them one bit for seeking the current arrangement, which the Nationals / MLB agreed to, to ensure they stand to profit most.

 

It's interesting, in that article they sort of lament the idea that the Orioles continue to leverage the "small to medium market" tag for profit-sharing purposes.  It's hard to have it both ways... if they were truly "big market", which frankly they had sort of become prior to the arrival of the Nationals... then the Nationals wouldn't exist!  The Orioles would still "own" the territory down in to Virginia and probably parts of North Carolina.  But... the Nationals DO exist, splitting that territory and frankly took over more heavily populated / wealthy part of it... so it is what it is.  The MASN / media rights agreement that cleared the way for the Nationals basically made the Orioles a small / mid market team again... but one that stands to gain financially from the larger market too.

 

Again... in an arrangement that MLB and the Nationals organization AGREED TO up-front.  

 

Doesn't excuse in my mind his failures, until now anyway, in investing that money back in to the Orioles...

 

I should have kept reading - exactly what I am saying. 

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I agree when MLB placed a team in DC it was the right thing to do in rewarding the O's with the regional sports network deal. My question is before this year where has all money gone?  

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Right, so "greedy Pete" should have given up 2/3rds of one of the the nation's top 5 markets (the richer part) with a 50/50 split of revenue from a channel that he was going to pony up the money to stand up.  All of that under pressure from scumbag Selig to make a deal because they wanted a team in DC.  

 

You need to explain this new math where 50-50 is really 2/3. selig wanted the team in DC that it's true, but greedy Pete held all the cards which is how he ended up with the sweetheart deal he got.

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Too bad for the Nats with that one sided deal.

 

Then again, that's what happens when a new team is introduced into another's market.

The Lerners also accepted the arrangement as part of MLB accepting their bid to buy the franchise (for about $450 million). The asking price likely would have been much higher had the MASN deal not been factored in. The Washington franchise is now valued at well over a billion just a decade since its inception. Anyway you slice it, that's a pretty handsome profit.

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I should have kept reading - exactly what I am saying. 

You're talking about an aspect of this story, that few people will write about. And I agree with you 100%. If Pete had been utilizing the DC money he was raking in, Selig wouldn't have weakened a competitive franchise, by cutting into their market. Especially since that franchise would have been rivaling NY and Boston. But Pete decided to poor mouth his predicament of having to play against the two financial monsters of the division. All the while, he was cramming his bank account with money that should have been invested back into his product. 

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You're talking about an aspect of this story, that few people will write about. And I agree with you 100%. If Pete had been utilizing the DC money he was raking in, Selig wouldn't have weakened a competitive franchise, by cutting into their market. Especially since that franchise would have been rivaling NY and Boston. But Pete decided to poor mouth his predicament of having to play against the two financial monsters of the division. All the while, he was cramming his bank account with money that should have been invested back into his product. 

 

 

Ted Lerner's estimated net worth is almost 5x that of Peter Angelos. Once he knew who was buying into DC, he was taking every penny he could. Selig, as shortsighted as ever, acquiesced. 

 

Frankly, I wish MLB would've just stuck a team in DC and told Angelos to pound sand. Angelos would've been free to sue, and in that event MLB would've been forced to look at their draconian territorial rights. It would've been likely sent to arbitration, where the arbitrator would've ruled against Angelos by reducing the territorial rights for all 30 teams. The fact Orioles games are blacked out in freaking North Carolina is an affront to the intelligence of everybody. Iowa? 6 hours from Wrigley? Sorry. Blacked out. 

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Ted Lerner's estimated net worth is almost 5x that of Peter Angelos. Once he knew who was buying into DC, he was taking every penny he could. Selig, as shortsighted as ever, acquiesced. 

 

Frankly, I wish MLB would've just stuck a team in DC and told Angelos to pound sand. Angelos would've been free to sue, and in that event MLB would've been forced to look at their draconian territorial rights. It would've been likely sent to arbitration, where the arbitrator would've ruled against Angelos by reducing the territorial rights for all 30 teams. The fact Orioles games are blacked out in freaking North Carolina is an affront to the intelligence of everybody. Iowa? 6 hours from Wrigley? Sorry. Blacked out. 

Additionally, and this is a point that stuck with me during that whole "negotiation", by bringing suit, MLB would have had to expose their financial records. All their finances would have been brought out, into the light. This is something MLB didn't want, and Pete knew that as well as anyone. MLB and its franchises get by with a lot, because they have never been forced to open their books to the public. It remains as one of the last vestiges of their anti-trust exemption. 

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Lerner signed the MASN deal in order to get the Nats.  Pretty simple.  He just needs to shut up and eat it.  Good for Petey.  Better late than never, but we are finally seeing the MASN profits plowed into the team.  145mil payroll is bigger than Nats now I think.

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Just for yucks, fun to think about what would've happened if Selig had told the Angelos to pound sand. He certainly had the opportunity and didn't do it. Angelos put some kind of fear in Selig for him to back off.

Edited by aurelius

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Additionally, and this is a point that stuck with me during that whole "negotiation", by bringing suit, MLB would have had to expose their financial records. All their finances would have been brought out, into the light. This is something MLB didn't want, and Pete knew that as well as anyone. MLB and its franchises get by with a lot, because they have never been forced to open their books to the public. It remains as one of the last vestiges of their anti-trust exemption. 

 

 

 

Agreed. When it's all said and done, the Nationals are operating at a disadvantage, but Lerner knew that going into the game. He's estimated at $4.9 billion though (pre-Harper contract haha)

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You're talking about an aspect of this story, that few people will write about. And I agree with you 100%. If Pete had been utilizing the DC money he was raking in, Selig wouldn't have weakened a competitive franchise, by cutting into their market. Especially since that franchise would have been rivaling NY and Boston. But Pete decided to poor mouth his predicament of having to play against the two financial monsters of the division. All the while, he was cramming his bank account with money that should have been invested back into his product. 

 

Well, I'm not really sure if this is how it has all gone down. 

The O's weren't known for being cheap going into the new century.  In the late 90's they consistently had some of the highest payrolls and off the top of my head I think they were the highest one of those years.  

The problems came when Pete signed contract with players that had health issues, and he suddenly got cold feet on spending, a bad move.  On top of that, and I'm inferring here, he meddled too much.  That drove away top talent and left them team without anyone to steer.  

He started the poor mouth stuff when Selig started pushing for a DC team, which was years before the actual deal was made.  As a businessman, Pete had no idea was his business model was going to look like if it happened, so I could understand him temporarily pull back. 

http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Daily/Issues/2002/10/Issue-20/Franchises/Bets-Johnson-Wants-To-Purchase-Expos-And-Bring-Them-To-DC.aspx

 

 

You need to explain this new math where 50-50 is really 2/3. selig wanted the team in DC that it's true, but greedy Pete held all the cards which is how he ended up with the sweetheart deal he got.

 

50/50 is not what happened.  It's basic math, and I'm actually shortchanging the reality with 50-50.

http://www.nielsen.com/content/dam/corporate/us/en/docs/solutions/measurement/television/2013-2014-DMA-Ranks.pdf

Baltimore's TV market is 27th, with around 1 million viewership. 

DC's market is 8th, with around 2.3 million in viewership.  Combined they would be the 4th largest market in baseball today.  I just find it interesting that all of the hit pieces on the O's started in the 2000s, after Angelos supported the players in the mid-90's, and after Selig decided he wanted to attack Pete's market share - and that the continued dispute has pushed the media onslaught on to today. 

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If the O's don't extend or re-sign Machado, it's because they didn't want to badly enough.

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If the O's don't extend or re-sign Machado, it's because they didn't want to badly enough.

 

Or he doesn't want to be here.  Giant bags of money would likely change that.  ;)

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