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AgentOrange

Gilmans drop off is as shocking as the elections

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And if they're bringing in international players in basketball, you idiots actually think they're just going to let the football program go down the drain?

It is a lot cheaper to upgrade basketball than football. A couple of D! prospects in basketball surrounded by good roll players and you can be at the top. It is not that easy in football as your earlier statements have shown.

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What parity? Didn't Gilman East(SFA) just run through the league? And this was just their first year. They will continue to do so.

If SFA becomes an unregulated football factory they won't be in the MIAA for long.

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If SFA becomes an unregulated football factory they won't be in the MIAA for long.

 

St Frances basketball is essentially unregulated and they're still in the MIAA/BCL.  They practice year round, shuffle kids in and out of the program yearly, and reportedly mis-used funds given to them by the BCL earmarked for the Alhambra Tournament.  At the end of the day, they're still good for the conference, whether or not they abide by all of the rules.

 

And Gilman has been recruiting basketball players for a while.  Nothing will change.  Sounds like Gilman is trying to emulate John Carroll's international recruiting.  

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It is a lot cheaper to upgrade basketball than football. A couple of D! prospects in basketball surrounded by good roll players and you can be at the top. It is not that easy in football as your earlier statements have shown.

Based on my conversations with the Gilman faculty, they feel that the School strayed too far from its mission under Biff. The full paying parents of the current players are ecstatic that their sons had an opportunity to be a meaningful part of the great high school football tradition at Gilman. In any case, you can't fire the current coaching staff without giving them a chance to re-build the Program. Lastly, they managed to be competitive against some of the teams in the League so that's a good start.   

Edited by mop

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It is a lot cheaper to upgrade basketball than football. A couple of D! prospects in basketball surrounded by good roll players and you can be at the top. It is not that easy in football as your earlier statements have shown.

This is without a doubt true, definitely easier in basketball but my point is, Holley isn't going to let football fall to far away from the Top. Just isn't going to happen. And as I said, they have already reached out to prominent people and former athletes. And I'm not talking about just area people. Not putting everything out on a message board but let's just say the Headmaster and Head of the Board will be meeting in NYC with some of those people this week.

 

By the way, SFA football is pretty unregulated already.

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Remind The DayWalker again why we are discussing a "was-been" 2 and 9 bush league team so much...  Hell, even the g-Spot bolted from these sick pups.

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Based on my conversations with the Gilman faculty, they feel that the School strayed too far from its mission under Biff. The full paying parents of the current players are ecstatic that their sons had an opportunity to be a meaningful part of the great high school football tradition at Gilman. In any case, you can't fire the current coaching staff without giving them a chance to re-build the Program. Lastly, they managed to be competitive against some of the teams in the League so that's a good start.

 

Those people have no say so in what's going to happen in the future. The morale of the school has suffered this year. The Alums are up in arms. One of the driving anti- Biff forces on the board(who's sons actually quit football) was at the GC game and had the view that you're saying and during the McDonogh game had a total different view and said that this can't happened again. Now as I said, I don't think it will ever be Biff like but it's not ever going to be like it's been this year again.

 

Getting Biff out was more about certain people clashing with Biff's personality, more than it had to do with the players. There were people who believed that Biff thought he was bigger than the school, direct quote from board members to me. A lot of things are going on right now behind the scenes.

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Those people have no say so in what's going to happen in the future. The morale of the school has suffered this year. The Alums are up in arms. One of the driving anti- Biff forces on the board(who's sons actually quit football) was at the GC game and had the view that you're saying and during the McDonogh game had a total different view and said that this can't happened again. Now as I said, I don't think it will ever be Biff like but it's not ever going to be like it's been this year again.

 

Getting Biff out was more about certain people clashing with Biff's personality, more than it had to do with the players. There were people who believed that Biff thought he was bigger than the school, direct quote from board members to me. A lot of things are going on right now behind the scenes

One of the complaints I heard from Gilman parents was my son wasn't given a fair chance to play because Biff brought in his hand picked recruits and gave them positions versus them earning them. If the widespread opinion is its not a meritocracy and the playing field isn't level, the peasants revolt and storm the Bastille. As an outsider, I saw Kai Locksley starting at qb based on recruiting politics not merit. There are a number of other examples that have been conveyed to me but I'll keep them under my hat as they were communicated to me in private. If I'm a full pay parent at Gilman and my son is a very good high school football player, I wouldn't take kindly to some rich guy (no matter how good his intentions were) hijacking the program to build a D1 recruiting juggernaut at the expense of my son's high school athletic experience. 

Edited by mop

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@Mop.....good stuff...but 1. As long as academics does not become an issue, which I'm assuming it was not under Biff, How did his ambition for national power status conflict with the overall direction of the school....2. As a coach, I feel that Biff should have has the discretion of playing his favorite players as he also has the right to play the style of football he chooses to. His style of play included coaching up and developing the players the school gave him the money to invest in. Pawgs felt he was saving money by handpicking the players he wanted and playing them off the top. The school knew what they were getting into when Pawgs asked for a open checkbook....I don't see a problem with how Pawgs did things based mostly on the fact that he produced breathaking results. 

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@Miaasportsfan.....if the Gilman administration in fact de-emphasized football.....THE SHOW IS INDEED OVER.......While I will not miss GA's braggadocio mouth, I was secretly pulling for Pawgs to build the Maryland Version of Moeller High.....damn...its truly over....   

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One of the complaints I heard from Gilman parents was my son wasn't given a fair chance to play because Biff brought in his hand picked recruits and gave them positions versus them earning them. If the widespread opinion is its not a meritocracy and the playing field isn't level, the peasants revolt and storm the Bastille. As an outsider, I saw Kai Locksley starting at qb based on recruiting politics not merit. There are a number of other examples that have been conveyed to me but I'll keep them under my hat as they were communicated to me in private. If I'm a full pay parent at Gilman and my son is a very good high school football player, I wouldn't take kindly to some rich guy (no matter how good his intentions were) hijacking the program to build a D1 recruiting juggernaut at the expense of my son's high school athletic experience.

 

This is pure biitching from parents who couldn't admit that their kid just wasn't any good and the product on the field this year proved it. I went to Gilman almost 30 years ago and I can promise you that the old regime was very politically motivated in who got on the field! More kids either quit football or left Gilman because of Bristow than ever under Poggi!

 

Locksley is one of the only times I ever saw Poggi not play the better player. It had to do with a number of things. Any other time, the best player played under Poggi. Hell, I think Poggi played kids last year over recruited players because they were older. The parents don't want to be public about the fact that their kid sucked or the fact that they didn't like the inner city black kids playing over their sons. Which was a major deal at the school. Well all of that is out the window right now! Winning is going to be the bottom line. And you heard it here first. It's not going to happen over night, but expect a very very good ninth grade class next year.

Edited by GREYHOUND ALUM

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Those people have no say so in what's going to happen in the future.

Sorry but I disagree.

 

As MOP stated "The full paying parents of the current players are ecstatic that their sons had an opportunity to be a meaningful part of the great high school football tradition at Gilman."

 

These are exactly the people who have a say. There are many families with deep pockets in the area that want to send their boys to Gilman but if Gilman moves toward "importing their team" those parents will speak with their wallets and send them to other schools which will damage Gilman in the long run. They will have to choose between becoming a football factory or an elite private school with a very good athletic program. I don't claim to know Gilman"s mission statement, but I am sure it is closer to the latter of the two choices.

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This is pure biitching from parents who couldn't admit that their kid just wasn't any good and the product on the field this year proved it. I went to Gilman almost 30 years ago and I can promise you that the old regime was very politically motivated in who got on the field! More kids either quit football or left Gilman because of Bristow than ever under Poggi!

 

Locksley is one of the only times I ever saw Poggi not play the better player. It had to do with a number of things. Any other time, the best player played under Poggi. Hell, I think Poggi played kids last year over recruited players because they were older. The parents don't want to be public about the fact that their kid sucked or the fact that they didn't like the inner city black kids playing over their sons. Which was a major deal at the school. Well all of that is out the window right now! Winning is going to be the bottom line. And you heard it here first. It's not going to happen over night, but expect a very very good ninth grade class next year.

So the full pay kids sucked? Because they could not beat out recruited kids? Sucked is a very harsh word. Remember this is high school football and over 90% of the players at most schools will never play football again after high school. This practice is sickening.

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Sorry but I disagree.

 

As MOP stated "The full paying parents of the current players are ecstatic that their sons had an opportunity to be a meaningful part of the great high school football tradition at Gilman."

 

These are exactly the people who have a say. There are many families with deep pockets in the area that want to send their boys to Gilman but if Gilman moves toward "importing their team" those parents will speak with their wallets and send them to other schools which will damage Gilman in the long run. They will have to choose between becoming a football factory or an elite private school with a very good athletic program. I don't claim to know Gilman"s mission statement, but I am sure it is closer to the latter of the two choices.

LOL at GA, GA, without enough full pay parents the annual budget doesn't work (unless you want to cannibalize your endownment). If the choice is have an IMG and little to no opportunity for full pay students vs a competitive football program with an inclusive admissions policy rather than a mercenary one and true opportunity for full pay kids, then I think you're on to something. In any case, Gilman won't be a force in the A Conference for another 3-4 years. That's the painful result of the Poggi led mass exodus. I'm curious, could you ever rationalize your son leaving GIlman for SFA assuming you were tuition free at both places? 

Edited by mop

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This is pure biitching from parents who couldn't admit that their kid just wasn't any good and the product on the field this year proved it. I went to Gilman almost 30 years ago and I can promise you that the old regime was very politically motivated in who got on the field! More kids either quit football or left Gilman because of Bristow than ever under Poggi!

 

Locksley is one of the only times I ever saw Poggi not play the better player. It had to do with a number of things. Any other time, the best player played under Poggi. Hell, I think Poggi played kids last year over recruited players because they were older. The parents don't want to be public about the fact that their kid sucked or the fact that they didn't like the inner city black kids playing over their sons. Which was a major deal at the school. Well all of that is out the window right now! Winning is going to be the bottom line. And you heard it here first. It's not going to happen over night, but expect a very very good ninth grade class next year.

Kids hardly ever transferred schools under Bristow but Poggi and his staff were responsible for a diaspora. 

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Sorry but I disagree.

 

As MOP stated "The full paying parents of the current players are ecstatic that their sons had an opportunity to be a meaningful part of the great high school football tradition at Gilman."

 

These are exactly the people who have a say. There are many families with deep pockets in the area that want to send their boys to Gilman but if Gilman moves toward "importing their team" those parents will speak with their wallets and send them to other schools which will damage Gilman in the long run. They will have to choose between becoming a football factory or an elite private school with a very good athletic program. I don't claim to know Gilman"s mission statement, but I am sure it is closer to the latter of the two choices.

Again, I don't think they will be like the Poggi teams of the past. But they won't be like this years team. They can't survive now in this sort of athletic climate with a team full of good ole boy's kids playing. Just not happening. The board member I mentioned is an executive board member, who was very instrumental in the anti Poggi movement. His kid's(one is in college, one I believe in the 11th and one in the 9th) and he said changes are coming. Good Athletics make the school a more attractive choice to potential parents. This is a proven fact. So if you're a full paying parent and your kid sucks, he won't play. Period. So what you will end up seeing, maybe these people won't send their kids to Gilman any longer. But I doubt it. Gilman is the best option academically in the area.

 

Times have changed. Athletics have changed, whether you agree with it or not. They're more big money donors to Gilman now who were big athletes, who will not donate to the school if the teams are bad. I've had these conversations. There's a former Gilman great, Leon Newsome, who has only done well for himself but also married a very wealthy woman who sent his one son to Lawrenceville because that's where his kid wanted to go and the kid is at Michigan as one of their best players(injured now). But he was going to send his middle son to Gilman before all of this happened and instead, the kid is now a ninth grader at Gonzaga.

 

Gilman prided itself as being the best all around private school and its football team was part of it. Gilman isn't Loyola and it's not going to just sit around and do nothing. This isn't what I think will happen, this is what I personally know is happening right now.

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Kids hardly ever transferred schools under Bristow but Poggi and his staff were responsible for a diaspora.

 

I was there during that time! How can you tell me who transferred from the school? I'm not talking about the mass exodus that happened when Poggi left. I'm talking about when Poggi was still there. More kids quit football or left because of the politics at Gilman than when Poggi coached. Now more kids were asked to leave under Poggi than during my time. Edited by GREYHOUND ALUM

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 maybe these people won't send their kids to Gilman any longer. But I doubt it. Gilman is the best option academically in the area.

 

 

Wow GA you speak as if it is the ONLY option and you are flat out wrong..Parents and students looking at private schools in the area look at more than one. Many of those deep pocketed parents are not looking for a football factory, they are looking for a top notch academic institution with very good athletics and Gilman is not the only school that fits that description regardless of what you believe.

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GA...your message is far different then Gilman administration. I suggest you have a dinner date with admin and here what they are telling perspective football players. And I quote " Gilman doesn't offer merit financial aid. We only offer needs based financial aid. ". Translation, if your parents make less then $45k a year you'll get aid. If you make more then that then you may qualify for partial aid based on need. Most people don't even want to pay 20k to go to Gilman for unsure football future. You say other wealthy alum r now going to fund football players the way Poggi did. That's the exact thing the headmaster and school board went against when they forced Poggi out. Not going to happen. Lots of wealthy alum resent football emphasis. They are in your admins ear too.

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Wow GA you speak as if it is the ONLY option and you are flat out wrong..Parents and students looking at private schools in the area look at more than one. Many of those deep pocketed parents are not looking for a football factory, they are looking for a top notch academic institution with very good athletics and Gilman is not the only school that fits that description regardless of what you believe.

I never said they were the only option. And you said a very important thing, many people are looking for a top notch institution with very good athletics! This is very important and makes a school more attractive. Gilman has never been a football factory, just a great school with the best football team in the area.

 

Gilman football being horrible does nothing for the school and actually hurts their bottom line. Look your Loyola school. When they have kids paying for things that every other MIAA school gives for free, it shows you just have far they have fallen off fiscally. When applicants and fundraising drops at Gilman, it will partially come from the fact that people don't see it as a great option athletically anymore. I'm telling you right now, that trips are being made to ease the fears of big pocket Alums. Alums who are SPORTS GUYS! Some Alums who grew up in the inner city and got where they are because of Gilman taking a chance on them.

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Wow GA you speak as if it is the ONLY option and you are flat out wrong..Parents and students looking at private schools in the area look at more than one. Many of those deep pocketed parents are not looking for a football factory, they are looking for a top notch academic institution with very good athletics and Gilman is not the only school that fits that description regardless of what you believe.

 

Repeat this for GA to hear even if he will never understand!!  Isn't this why Pog departed.....

Edited by DayWalker

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I never said they were the only option. And you said a very important thing, many people are looking for a top notch institution with very good athletics!

 

....where their kids can play and have the high school sports experience and not cheerleaders or be scout team for mercenaries......

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GA...your message is far different then Gilman administration. I suggest you have a dinner date with admin and here what they are telling perspective football players. And I quote " Gilman doesn't offer merit financial aid. We only offer needs based financial aid. ". Translation, if your parents make less then $45k a year you'll get aid. If you make more then that then you may qualify for partial aid based on need. Most people don't even want to pay 20k to go to Gilman for unsure football future. You say other wealthy alum r now going to fund football players the way Poggi did. That's the exact thing the headmaster and school board went against when they forced Poggi out. Not going to happen. Lots of wealthy alum resent football emphasis. They are in your admins ear too.

I'm telling you that I PERSONALLY know this isn't true. As I have said, I'm not going to put everything on a message board, but believe what I say. Yet do know that until about 8-9 years ago, Poggi wasn't even the one giving much money right? That kid's where being sponsored by weathly Alums? And then there was some friction between Poggi and a couple of the benefactors and he started to use more of his own money?

 

You might have had these conversations a month ago and this is what they told you. This isn't what's happening right now. They're reaching out and making trips my friend. Had Gilman gone 6-5, 5-6, we would be having a whole different conversation. That's not what happened. Gilman will be giving out a lot of money in the near future.

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