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Pickle20

Tillman to miss OD...

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http://www.rotoworld.com/player/mlb/4678/chris-tillman

 

Says he received a shot in his shoulder...back in December.

 

And the O's didn't do a thing to get some insurance for the rotation. I wonder what shows Dan's been binge watching this winter. My guess is The Crown or Orange is the New Black.

 

pitbull may be right...without Tillman this rotation IS garbage.

It's garbage with or without Tillman.

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I agree on the cost part.  I doubt the O's are looking to spend more than a couple more million to fill pitching depth, a corner OF with a glove and a LH relief pitcher.  I would look for more Ynoa type deals wihere teams pick up a late FA signing or make a trade and then have to clear a 40 man spot.  You actually can pick up some good talent when teams are loaded in the minor leagues.  They don't have scrubs like TJ or Gunkle hogging up a 40 man spot.  This kind of action is right up DDs alley and actually is where he excels. He might have already made the Ynoa deal based on the Tillman reports he was getting.

Also I think Buck and DD are looking for flexibility in any other pitchers they may pick up.  Young, cheap, options, can pitch long relief or start.  Fister doesn't fit any of that.

Good points.

 

I think the Orioles would prefer that anyone they sign particularly as insurance for Tillman would be on a minor league deal. I doubt if they want to waste a roster spot or money on a free agent if Tillman only misses the first two or three weeks. As you stated, guys like Fister don't fit that profile, particularly in this case because they're probably still looking for the guarantee of a major league deal.

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It's garbage with or without Tillman.

 

It's not a great rotation, but it could be....but it's definitely not garbage.

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It's not a great rotation, but it could be....but it's definitely not garbage.

I agree. Gausman, Bundy and Tillman are hardly anyone's definition of garbage.

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I agree. Gausman, Bundy and Tillman are hardly anyone's definition of garbage.

 

I may be crazy but I am hoping Ubaldo can carry over the success he had from the end of last year, too. If he can -- if that mechanical change holds up -- look out.

 

Miley can pitch better too...but it's very unlikely all 5 pitchers are humming at once. Be nice if they could though.

 

The important thing is Gallardo is gone.

Edited by Pickle20

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It's not a great rotation, but it could be....but it's definitely not garbage.

Dan's continued persistence in dumpster diving instead of actually looking for quality starters is going to bite him in the butt. We always convince ourselves the rotation will be better based on best-case-scenario type projections and it never happens.

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Dan's continued persistence in dumpster diving instead of actually looking for quality starters is going to bite him in the butt. We always convince ourselves the rotation will be better based on best-case-scenario type projections and it never happens.

Quality starters typically come with very high price tags, and there's no guarantee they'll continue to perform at their previous level once you sign them.

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Good points.

 

I think the Orioles would prefer that anyone they sign particularly as insurance for Tillman would be on a minor league deal. I doubt if they want to waste a roster spot or money on a free agent if Tillman only misses the first two or three weeks. As you stated, guys like Fister don't fit that profile, particularly in this case because they're probably still looking for the guarantee of a major league deal.

I see the logic. But I was looking at it, from another angle. If they brought in Fister, they'd be adding a pitcher that's better than UJ and Miley. When Tilly returns, they can trade UJ. Worse case scenario, they save no money, and get nothing in return, but they improve the rotation. Best case, they find someone who will take UJ and all his salary, and save some money. I'm thinking in the area of $5-6M? UJ gets $13.5 this year, Fister probably gets $8.   

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Dan's continued persistence in dumpster diving instead of actually looking for quality starters is going to bite him in the butt. We always convince ourselves the rotation will be better based on best-case-scenario type projections and it never happens.

You're obviously not a regular to this board. Anyone who reads this board knows that there's maybe 2-3 regular posters who could be accused of projecting a best case scenario. No one thinks there is anything special about this rotation. But it's not garbage. It's only 2/5ths garbage. :D      

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Dan's continued persistence in dumpster diving instead of actually looking for quality starters is going to bite him in the butt. We always convince ourselves the rotation will be better based on best-case-scenario type projections and it never happens.

That's not true. Dan's approach, aside from Ubaldo, has been finding value when adding to the rotation. Chen paid off pretty well during his time here, so did Bud Norris. Miguel Gonzalez. Their focus has been on keeping the team in the game through 6 IP and turning things over to an elite bullpen. So far that's paid off pretty well. Combine that with Buck's expert BP usage and there's been success there. Any failings to advance in the playoffs has been on the offense moreso than the pitching IMO.

Edited by Pickle20

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It's garbage with or without Tillman.

Do you really think a top three of Tillman, Bundy, and Gausman is garbage?

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somewhat on topic....Hardy is out for awhile due to back spasms (yet again)

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somewhat on topic....Hardy is out for awhile due to back spasms (yet again)

 

Thanks Joe.  I started a separate thread.  This is big if it persists, which I assume it will.

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Do you really think a top three of Tillman, Bundy, and Gausman is garbage?

Well "garbage" may be a bit harsh, but Bundy is unproven and probably on an innings li it, and the 4th and 5th slots aspire to garbage. I did forget Gausman. He's pretty decent.

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Now I'm worried. Can you say Wright and Wilson and NOT cringe?

 

"Orioles manager Buck Showalter warned earlier this week that any setback that kept his top starter, Chris Tillman, off the prescribed schedule on his way back from a lingering shoulder issue would be bad news for his chances of an early April return.

 

Well, Tillman has now had a setback, not taking his scheduled bullpen after soreness cropped up during his pre-session catch and long toss routine. Showalter’s tune has changed from hopefulness that Tillman could come back in April to assurances that he believes Tillman will come back at all.

 

But this spring more than most, the Orioles have options they believe can help mitigate that blow, though few teams have another Tillman waiting in their minor league stocks.

 

Mike Wright and Tyler Wilson began last year as starters, and a reprisal of that role would require them to take a step forward in terms of effectiveness in a big league rotation. Left-handers Chris Lee and Jayson Aquino, meanwhile, have seen their stocks rise in Showater’s eyes in a dramatic way this spring. And newcomer Gabriel Ynoa is making his first impression a good one."

 

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/orioles/orioles-internal-rotation-options-after-chris-tillman-s-setback-20170312-story.html

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Now I'm worried. Can you say Wright and Wilson and NOT cringe?

 

"Orioles manager Buck Showalter warned earlier this week that any setback that kept his top starter, Chris Tillman, off the prescribed schedule on his way back from a lingering shoulder issue would be bad news for his chances of an early April return.

 

Well, Tillman has now had a setback, not taking his scheduled bullpen after soreness cropped up during his pre-session catch and long toss routine. Showalter’s tune has changed from hopefulness that Tillman could come back in April to assurances that he believes Tillman will come back at all.

 

But this spring more than most, the Orioles have options they believe can help mitigate that blow, though few teams have another Tillman waiting in their minor league stocks.

 

Mike Wright and Tyler Wilson began last year as starters, and a reprisal of that role would require them to take a step forward in terms of effectiveness in a big league rotation. Left-handers Chris Lee and Jayson Aquino, meanwhile, have seen their stocks rise in Showater’s eyes in a dramatic way this spring. And newcomer Gabriel Ynoa is making his first impression a good one."

 

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/orioles/orioles-internal-rotation-options-after-chris-tillman-s-setback-20170312-story.html

 

Saw Mike Wrong pitch the televised Spring Training game and he looked like the same bum he has always been.

 

No thanks.

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So is Tillman headed for the DL? That sucks. Hopefully he can make it back before June.

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It's time for Ubaldo` to shine like the "grizzled" vet that he is!!

Pick up the slack Ubaldo!!!!

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This season is starting to look like it's over before it starts.

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This season is starting to look like it's over before it starts.

I'd hate to win the Powerball. All those taxes!

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Not a good way for Tillman to enter his walk year, either.

 

If Tillman is going to miss significant time, I'd personally rather the Orioles turn to their in-house options. Colby Lewis has been mentioned, but he might be headed back to Texas since their rotation has been hit with injuries this spring. He's had success, but he's also very injury-prone. Doug Fister and his 45 mph fastball are still out there, but I'm not sure how well that would play in Camden Yards.

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Not a good way for Tillman to enter his walk year, either.

 

If Tillman is going to miss significant time, I'd personally rather the Orioles turn to their in-house options. Colby Lewis has been mentioned, but he might be headed back to Texas since their rotation has been hit with injuries this spring. He's had success, but he's also very injury-prone. Doug Fister and his 45 mph fastball are still out there, but I'm not sure how well that would play in Camden Yards.

 

This seems serious as this is the same problem that first cropped up last summer.  At least the O=s foot dragging on extensions paid dividends here.  I can here Pete and Baby John singing the "I told you so" song to DD.  I'd try Ynoa, but you know its going to be Buck fav Mike Wrong.  Rotation will be in shambles by mid May.  Waiting for someone to question why we traded Gallardo, LOL!!!!

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This seems serious as this is the same problem that first cropped up last summer.  At least the O=s foot dragging on extensions paid dividends here.  I can here Pete and Baby John singing the "I told you so" song to DD.  I'd try Ynoa, but you know its going to be Buck fav Mike Wrong.  Rotation will be in shambles by mid May.  Waiting for someone to question why we traded Gallardo, LOL!!!!

I personally wouldn't have given Tillman a mega-deal regardless. The Orioles would likely have paid ace money for a guy who really isn't an ace.

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I personally wouldn't have given Tillman a mega-deal regardless. The Orioles would likely have paid ace money for a guy who really isn't an ace.

 

Mega deal is all relative. He is no 200mil pitcher for sure.  But he certainly would fall into the 90mil/5yrs range at a min. Smardjen money and Tillman is better.  He probably falls between Smardjen and Zimmerman.  He is a 2 plus starter.  But now that he showed up hurt, all bets are off.

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I'm not signing any pitcher to a long deal after age 30 unless they have very little comparative mileage on their arm. Scherzer, for example. Anyone else, no thanks.

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