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Residents protest over immigrant detentions


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#201 bmore_ken

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Posted 22 February 2017 - 07:37 AM

Kenny, you're still bobbing and weaving.

I never said there was no enforcement under Obama.

BS. You said

Kenny, righties may be lapping it up because the laws are actually being enforced

and

What's got the Left all in a lather is that for the first time in a decade immigration LAWS are being enforced

and

Kenny,, if the laws were being enforced, as you say, how come there was no "fear" in the illegal-alien community until Trump was elected?

Now man up and admit those statements were 100% inaccurate, because those statements are what I addressed.

Edited by bmore_ken, 22 February 2017 - 07:38 AM.

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#202 alienrace

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Posted 22 February 2017 - 02:20 PM

Kenny, you're still bobbing and weaving.

 

I never said there was no enforcement under Obama. According to available reports he deported many thousands of illegals. But at the same time the southern border remained very porous.

 

My original question, which you have chosen to ignore, remains Why there was no national outbreak of fear and outrage and panic when Obama was deporting all those people but we're experiencing daily outbreaks -- with news coverage to match --  because Trump is enforcing the law more strictly?

 

Double standard??

 

Ken is not bobbing and weaving here.  Several people have said that the outcry is because Trump is actually enforcing the laws, and he's pointing out that Obama was enforcing them more than any other president to date. 

 

There are several reasons for the outcry:

 

1.  Obama enforced the laws behind the scenes.  There was little coverage, few statements from him or his staff, and very little media coverage.  Surely this was by design as to not cause reactions like we are seeing now(and I don't doubt that the media collaborated to some degree with him, whether it was coincidental is something that could surely be debated for decades).

 

2.  A lot of people are worried about what Trump *might* do.  He talks tough about deportations, walls, and keeping people out.  People are worried that the sentiment has gained momentum, and there does seem to be a division among Latinos in particular on the subject.  Trump got a much larger Latino vote than expected, partly because many underestimated their sentiments on illegal immigrants.  So far, Trump really hasn't done anything all that different than Obama.  In fact, he is keeping the "Dreamer Act". 

 

3.  The media is fueling a lot of the outcry.  Aside from the SJW's that feel a "need" to be protesting "something", between mainstream outlets and social media, there have been matchsticks thrown all over piles of dry leaves.  If you cannot see that, you're not looking.  Just look at the story of the woman recently deported and "having to leave her family behind".  This happens all of the time, and Obama surely had a load of cases like this under his reign, but media didn't run with any stories like that(at least not to this degree, or not for these reasons). 


The time has come for a centrist political party. Rational Americans are not comfortable with extreme views to the left or to the right, and our current parties have no intentions of ever abandoning their ever increasing distance from sane, reasonable thinking.

#203 bmore_ken

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Posted 22 February 2017 - 02:43 PM

Ken is not bobbing and weaving here. Several people have said that the outcry is because Trump is actually enforcing the laws, and he's pointing out that Obama was enforcing them more than any other president to date.

I'm waiting for him to try and move the goal posts from my last post. I never addressed the outcry, I attacked his falsehood that enforcement wasn't being done until Trump showed up. He can't deny it because I quoted his posts. To be honest I could care less about the protests and outcry. If you're illegal and get deported, so be it. You knew the risks when you crossed.
Secretary of State Hillary Clinton. It has a nice sound to it

Suggs has signed. I've never been so happy to be wrong

Don't blame me, I voted Bob Barr:cool:

#204 Guido2

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Posted 22 February 2017 - 05:33 PM

I'm waiting for him to try and move the goal posts from my last post. I never addressed the outcry, I attacked his falsehood that enforcement wasn't being done until Trump showed up. He can't deny it because I quoted his posts. To be honest I could care less about the protests and outcry. If you're illegal and get deported, so be it. You knew the risks when you crossed.

 

I dunno.... I have been reading you guys go back and forth. And as I see it Ken you alien and retired....for the most part agree.

 

So why all this nit-picking? And people wonder why we have wars.



#205 bmore_ken

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Posted 22 February 2017 - 07:52 PM

I dunno.... I have been reading you guys go back and forth. And as I see it Ken you alien and retired....for the most part agree.

 

So why all this nit-picking? And people wonder why we have wars.

I'm not nit picking anything. I challenged false assertions about enforcement made by retired. He just could have been a man and admitted that he made false statements and my part of this conversation would have been done.


Secretary of State Hillary Clinton. It has a nice sound to it

Suggs has signed. I've never been so happy to be wrong

Don't blame me, I voted Bob Barr:cool:

#206 retired

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Posted 27 February 2017 - 05:17 PM

Hello Kenny, picking up where we left off.

 

My questions to you from the beginning has been simple and direct. Please try not to deflect into something else.

 

1. Do you believe the US, or any country, has the right to control its borders and determine who comes in?

 

2. Why were there no significant protests when President Obama was reportedly deporting many thousands of illegal aliens but the world is coming to an end because Trump has announced his deportation plans.



#207 pepper

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Posted 27 February 2017 - 07:28 PM

Ken is not bobbing and weaving here.  Several people have said that the outcry is because Trump is actually enforcing the laws, and he's pointing out that Obama was enforcing them more than any other president to date. 

 

There are several reasons for the outcry:

 

1.  Obama enforced the laws behind the scenes.  There was little coverage, few statements from him or his staff, and very little media coverage.  Surely this was by design as to not cause reactions like we are seeing now(and I don't doubt that the media collaborated to some degree with him, whether it was coincidental is something that could surely be debated for decades).

 

2.  A lot of people are worried about what Trump *might* do.  He talks tough about deportations, walls, and keeping people out.  People are worried that the sentiment has gained momentum, and there does seem to be a division among Latinos in particular on the subject.  Trump got a much larger Latino vote than expected, partly because many underestimated their sentiments on illegal immigrants.  So far, Trump really hasn't done anything all that different than Obama.  In fact, he is keeping the "Dreamer Act". 

 

3.  The media is fueling a lot of the outcry.  Aside from the SJW's that feel a "need" to be protesting "something", between mainstream outlets and social media, there have been matchsticks thrown all over piles of dry leaves.  If you cannot see that, you're not looking.  Just look at the story of the woman recently deported and "having to leave her family behind".  This happens all of the time, and Obama surely had a load of cases like this under his reign, but media didn't run with any stories like that(at least not to this degree, or not for these reasons). 

Hi Alien

 

I agree with each point, but I think you give a pass to the media for making little noise about the deporter in chief. A lot of people were not happy with his record deportations, but we heard little of it, by design as you say, but not coincidence at all. I get how it works, and why the MM turned an eye for Obama, and why they will not for Trump. 

 

We're screwed because the sides are drawn simply and the complicated middle is ignored because it's very difficult. "build a wall, throw, em all out"  or " no wall, let everyone in". Neither is workable or in our best interests. But it seems we're going one way or the other, because no one can find a reasonable middle, due to the minefield that is real and artificially created by the 2017 media. 

 

The obvious base line IMO, is do we have a sovereign border, and are there requirements for enjoying the rights and benefits of being a legal resident. Standards of what it means to be a citizen have to be established or the rest is muddy.  

We've spent the last decade blurring that line with drivers licenses, in state tuition, etc.. 

 

I don't agree with, and I don't see it happening, deportation of under the radar illegals. Our economy couldn't survive it, and with Mexico's relief valve shut, in a few years that state descends into chaos that makes it look nice today.

 

Illegal residents that place themselves on the radar through crime are fair game. 70 in a 55 maybe not, but DWI, or assault, theft, and the zillions of other infractions that vary in degree means a really difficult task in assessment.  No way in hell are we up to it. Look at our leaders...The pols and media are "wall good" or "wall bad" level of deliberation, but I think the vast middle wants a sovereign nation that doesn't need a giant physical wall to supplant laws already on record.

 

Something about a giant border wall doesn't seem right to me, even though I understand the reasoning and that there's been a truncated physical wall for a long time.  America shouldn't need a wall like a prison.   



#208 bmore_ken

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Posted 27 February 2017 - 11:28 PM

Hello Kenny, picking up where we left off.

 

My questions to you from the beginning has been simple and direct. Please try not to deflect into something else.

 

1. Do you believe the US, or any country, has the right to control its borders and determine who comes in?

 

Absolutely

 

2. Why were there no significant protests when President Obama was reportedly deporting many thousands of illegal aliens but the world is coming to an end because Trump has announced his deportation plans.

 

Don't know and don't care which is why I never addressed it. 

 

Now I answered your questions be a man and not a troll and answer mine. Can you admit your statements that immigration laws weren't being enforced under Obama were wrong?


Secretary of State Hillary Clinton. It has a nice sound to it

Suggs has signed. I've never been so happy to be wrong

Don't blame me, I voted Bob Barr:cool:

#209 pepper

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Posted 28 February 2017 - 06:14 PM

Now I answered your questions be a man and not a troll and answer mine. Can you admit your statements that immigration laws weren't being enforced under Obama were wrong?

I'd say they were, but it seems that any effort we take is reactionary. I realize it's impossible to completely secure the borders, but for decades we've pretty much looked the other way when it came to the influx. Local and state governments have all but accepted an illegal population. We all have. It has for the most part benefited both parties.  

 

But I'm all for the ejection of irregular residents convicted of crimes. If that proves to be a problem due to the massive numbers involved, it would prove the point of the more hardcore pro-deportation crowd. If the numbers are small relative to the illegal population,  ( somehow seems to be holding at 11 mil for several years now) I don't get the opposition from the middle.  Again, it only works if you believe in a sovereign nation with borders, and requirements for citizenship. I sense a lot of the protesters don't like those things.



#210 bmore_ken

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Posted 01 March 2017 - 09:24 AM

I can't disagree with any of that.


Secretary of State Hillary Clinton. It has a nice sound to it

Suggs has signed. I've never been so happy to be wrong

Don't blame me, I voted Bob Barr:cool:

#211 bmore_ken

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Posted 01 March 2017 - 09:24 AM

Now I answered your questions be a man and not a troll and answer mine. Can you admit your statements that immigration laws weren't being enforced under Obama were wrong?


Of course. "crickets"
Secretary of State Hillary Clinton. It has a nice sound to it

Suggs has signed. I've never been so happy to be wrong

Don't blame me, I voted Bob Barr:cool:

#212 retired

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Posted 01 March 2017 - 01:31 PM

Yes, Ken, Obama was enforcing the law and deporting thousands of people. At the same time, more thousands were coming in, floods of children, etc.

 

I'm sure the MSM bears a huge part of the blame the deportations were not well publicized. But in that, as in most things, they gave Obama a major pass.  Trump, on the other hand, is the devil incarnate because he said he would crack down on illegals and is doing it.

 

See any double standard here?



#213 bmore_ken

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Posted 01 March 2017 - 01:32 PM

Yes, Ken, Obama was enforcing the law and deporting thousands of people.


See how easy that was? Good job   :)


Edited by bmore_ken, 01 March 2017 - 01:34 PM.

Secretary of State Hillary Clinton. It has a nice sound to it

Suggs has signed. I've never been so happy to be wrong

Don't blame me, I voted Bob Barr:cool:

#214 Sprightly

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Posted 05 March 2017 - 11:30 AM

We just located our great-grandfather's Petition for Naturalization that was signed in 1901 -- when he became a Naturalized Citizen of the United States of America. He arrived legally and followed the process. More people should do the same. :)


To forgive is to set a prisoner free and discover the prisoner was you.

#215 Smokey 1

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Posted 05 March 2017 - 11:57 AM

We just located our great-grandfather's Petition for Naturalization that was signed in 1901 -- when he became a Naturalized Citizen of the United States of America. He arrived legally and followed the process. More people should do the same. :)

 

I agree but I would add that all immigrants should do the same and if they don't and come in illegally they should be forever banned from being able to be a legal resident.


Edited by Smokey 1, 05 March 2017 - 11:57 AM.


#216 Rocketwolf

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Posted 07 March 2017 - 05:26 PM

Totally agree. When you step back and take emotion out of the equation. Illegal immagrants (or the undocumented to be PC) BROKE THE LAW  as it stands on the books at the moment. Period.

What I find interesting is that during Obama's Admin more illegals (and that is what they are) were ejected out of the country than any other President.

Yet there is all this static about mean old Trump and the ICE Nazis. For the record, I think Trump is a jerk, clueless and has absolutely no grasp of anything that is going on....so I am not defending him. All I am saying is Obama did what he did and that was OK....now Trump is doing it....bad.

Sorry I don't think with my heart....I look at reality. And these illegals BROKE THE LAW...the consequences to their children and families does NOT fall on my or your shoulders. Rather it really falls on theirs....for breaking the law in the first place.

Darn right


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more than I trust President Obama





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