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ms maggie

Make America Stupid Again

99 posts in this topic

How about adding a little perspective to your rant?

 

How many foreign students apply to U.S. engineering schools?

 

How many are accepted?

 

How many graduate?

 

How many that do graduate return to their native country?

Look it up. You know how, right?

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Sorry I guess I didn't pick up on the inter-nationality etc. You have the advantage with insider information. :D

 

Again. CC is geared (as I understand it) to A) having schools across the nation teach the same stuff B)get more student introduced to 'higher' math thinking in prep for college.

 

Now how the US has bastardized it with 'feeling the numbers' in primary and middle schools I will never get. I think consistency of what is being taught is good. But and this is a big but (note only one t) I do have a real problem with the politicos thinking that everyone should be prepping for college. Not just in math but every subject.

 

Which leads to, frustration for the students and teachers, especially in PC proper mixed level classes,. Smart students get bored, slower students get frustrated and give up since teacher have to hit the middle ground somehow. I know....I lived it as a teacher.

 

Your PhD loved it because (I assume) that he was in advanced classes and it was a challenge he enjoyed. I am also guessing he was 'wired' for math. Unfortunately most, myself included it was a struggle.

 

Thank you very much for the complement about Calc. Funny thing though, in the real world (IT business) I can't recall one time where it was useful. My near Waterloo was Linear Algebra. If you are not familiar with it is NOT HS Algebra....believe me. In a nutshell it using math in a matrix format and formulas in conjunction with to predict probability of xy or z happening. Think statistics in a scientific environment on Hulk Hogan type steroids. :D

 

Sorry I hope I didn't bore you.

I think CC is like everything else, some good and some bad.

 

Not bored at all, good conversation! Off to brunch and hockey game, enjoy yr Sunday!

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Engineering programs report big drop in foreign applications.

 

http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/02/drop-foreign-applicants-worries-us-engineering-schools

 

Who needs top science talent? Pffft.

 

You have to ask what is wrong with this country when 90% of the science/engineering students are from abroad for some schools and 55% overall.  Could it possibly be our public education system?  Or is there something in the economics of how foreign students are treated?  Is it cultural?  I am far less worried about the finances of our state universities than I am our kids.  Are they all supposed to work at H&R Block and McDonald's while Indians and Chinese man the cubicles of Microsoft and biggie-size their fries from your kids?  

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From article in post #1:
 

Schools of engineering and computer science programs are especially reliant on international students, in some cases drawing up to 90% of their applicants from abroad. And though students on temporary visas make up only 19% of all U.S. graduate students, they compose 55% of those studying engineering and computer science, according to 2015 enrollment data from the Council of Graduate Schools (CGS) in Washington, D.C.

 
 
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Fake news. Show me a link to an accredited engineering program that has 90% of their students from abroad?

 

I'll wait.

.

 

"according to 2015 enrollment data from the Council of Graduate Schools (CGS) in Washington, D.C." is fake news? Seriously!?

 

.

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Fake news. Show me a link to an accredited engineering program that has 90% of their students from abroad?

 

I'll wait.

You can't read the article?

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You can't read the article?

I can.

 

90% of applicants.

 

55% of actual enrollment in computer science and engineering.

 

You understand the difference between an applicant and an enrolled student?

 

So again, what accredited engineering program has 90% of foreign born students?

Edited by ms maggie

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I can.

 

90% of applicants.

 

55% of actual enrollment in computer science and engineering.

 

You understand the difference between an applicant and an enrolled student?

 

So again, what accredited engineering program has 90% of foreign born students?

 

55% acceptants on average.  90% of applicants at some schools (are you claiming they discriminate?  Link?)  And you support that more than half of engineers educated, supported and subsidized in America are foreign.  

It is no wonder a bright American student would gravitate to law.  

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Link to the schools that report 90%?

 

90% of the grad students??

 

Don't believe it. It's that simple.

 

My company recruits at many of the top EECS and CS Deprtments in the US. Not my experience. Not even close. Maybe 30-40%. Still high, but not even close to 90%

 

Fail.  You saw the link.  Didn't mention specific schools.  

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55% acceptants on average. 90% of applicants at some schools (are you claiming they discriminate? Link?) And you support that more than half of engineers educated, supported and subsidized in America are foreign.

It is no wonder a bright American student would gravitate to law.

A bright American student would read that article and not confuse "applicant" with actual student.

 

It's no secret that we have not emphasized STEM for decades. Or certainly not compared to many other nations. Thankfully that is turning around.

 

And I don't get your point re subsidized. In public universities, in state students

pay far lower tuition than out of state students, which of course includes foreign students. The in state students are the ones being hugely subsidized.

 

And most foreign students stay here, so we reap the benefits of their talent.

Edited by ms maggie

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Link to the schools that report 90%?

 

90% of the grad students??

 

Don't believe it. It's that simple.

 

My company recruits at many of the top EECS and CS Deprtments in the US. Not my experience. Not even close. Maybe 30-40%. Still high, but not even close to 90%

 

So what?

 

Who to believe ... the Council of Graduate Schools (CGS) in Washington, D.C or some anonymous poster and their opinion?

 

No contest.

 

I'll go with Council of Graduate Schools (CGS) in Washington, D.C.

 

.

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A bright American student would read that article and not confuse "applicant" with actual student.

 

It's no secret that we have not emphasized STEM for decades. Or certainly not compared to many other nations. Thankfully that is turning around.

 

And I don't get your point re subsidized. In public universities, in state students

pay far lower tuition than out of state students, which of course includes foreign students. The in state students are the ones being hugely subsidized.

 

And most foreign students stay here, so we reap the benefits of their talent.

 

So state schools get no state funding?  I'm shocked.  

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Fail. You saw the link. Didn't mention specific schools.

So 55% of computer science and engineering students are foreign. If engineering schools are at 90%, where does that leave computer science programs? 20%? (The number of students in engineering is slightly higher than the number in computer science.

 

http://college.usatoday.com/2015/07/08/international-students-stem-degrees/

 

Use your head. Logically, if the mean is 55%, there will be a few schools at each end of the distribution curve, some at 90% or more, some with 10% or less.

 

The point of course is lost on you. The 30% decline in one year.

Edited by ms maggie

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So state schools get no state funding? I'm shocked.

Why? Thought it was common knowledge. Oh wait...

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So 55% of computer science and engineering students are foreign. If engineering schools are at 90%, where does that leave computer science programs? 20%? (The number of students in engineering is slightly higher than the number in computer science.

 

http://college.usatoday.com/2015/07/08/international-students-stem-degrees/

 

Use your head.

 

That doesn't make sense.  

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Why? Thought it was common knowledge. Oh wait...

Now that is funny.  

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Look it up. You know how, right?

 

So your interest in this subject is limited to linking to an article.

 

It is people like you with your burning curiosity that making America stupid again.

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Schools like Vanderbilt that were mentioned on the article have acceptance rates less than 20% .....

 

They have plenty of qualified students to pick from .....

 

Schools push their application numbers and rejection rates as a marketing tool ....

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From your link:

 

And the research itself is important, since universities conduct more than half of all basic research conducted in the United States, according to government data, and that research not only benefits U.S. society and the economy but helps keep U.S. universities and America at the center of both education and innovation around the world.

 

Do we not want the best talent in our university STEM programs?

.

Edited by ms maggie

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So your interest in this subject is limited to linking to an article.

 

It is people like you with your burning curiosity that making America stupid again.

You're right. Bye.

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I can.

 

90% of applicants.

 

55% of actual enrollment in computer science and engineering.

 

You understand the difference between an applicant and an enrolled student?

 

So again, what accredited engineering program has 90% of foreign born students?

Look it up. You know how, right?

What goes around comes around.

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From your link:

 

And the research itself is important, since universities conduct more than half of all basic research conducted in the United States, according to government data, and that research not only benefits U.S. society and the economy but helps keep U.S. universities and America at the center of both education and innovation around the world.

 

Do we not want the best talent in our university STEM programs?

.

 

 

Yes, we do.

 

.

 

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