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Bartman

Maryland wants to get out of the slot machine business

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http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/sun-investigates/bs-md-sun-investigates-casino-money-20170225-story.html

MD Pols messed it up from the Start!

This was all due to the Pols insisting that all the casino Slots be run centrally by the MD State Lottery, These are Class II machines. All the payouts are determined the same as a Lottery run by the State. They are all hooked up to the central MD State Lottery system. They are Not Class III or what are commonly called RNG machines. With a Class II machine as here in MD you are playing in a Lottery Pool with everyone else who is playing and those Odds are set by the State. The only figure the MD State Lottery publishes is "Prizes to Players" overall which is 59.5%, that Stinks! That's why I won't play here.
 
Class III, RNG machines such as in LV and AC all run on their own Random Number Generator chips. They are Independent gaming machines. They also have a "Payback Chip". The casinos will vary their Payback Percentages for machines with different denominations. IE a Dollar machine may "Payback" 97-98% of what is fed into it over the life of the machine where the Penny slots may return 87-88% or so. They usually vary their Payback Percentages to compete with other casinos as well. Whose Slots are "Looser"? Not that you will notice much difference but in LV the Downtown & Off-Strip casinos are usually set a percentage point or so "Looser" than the ones on The Strip.
 
If I was a casino owner/corporation, I would tell the State to stick it! You already want 67% of the Take, you want the machines on Your system and controlling it all, You pay for them!

Edited by Bartman

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I never understood the GA wanting to have control by leasing the machines to the casinos in the first place.

 

 

OOpppssss forgot.....The lib/dem GA always got it all under control. :rolleyes:

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Posted (edited)

The other thing I noticed when I went to Hollywood Once and Live Once was that there were None of the Big Progressives like 100K or 250K and Up on any of the machines, Seems the State thinks 5K to 10K is a Big jackpot. I'd always run a 20 into a machine with a Big Progressive like a Wheel of Fortune, you never know. On another note my friend John who Does go to Horseshoe every week since the Taj closed, says the Comps are Crap there. Peanuts!

Edited by Bartman

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Posted (edited)

Exactly! As the slots in MD are wired into the MD State Lottery system, your Win or Loss is essentially Predetermined. On Class III, RNG machines. it's Not. Their "Hold" or conversely "Payback" percentage is determined by the Payscale chip. The RNG stops at a certain number and that number has a corresponding Value on the Payscale chip every time you hit the Spin button. I used to subscribe to "Simply Slots" and it's sister publication "Casino Player" and they would publish across the US the average "Payback Percentages" of RNG slots in different States and areas. Though they're Not a guarantee of what you should expect to Win or Lose, you get an idea of whose machines are "Looser". The States such as MD who regulate the slots themselves wont make those figures public. As I've mentioned, the Only figure the MD State Lottery publishes is the Percentage of their Total take Overall which is awarded as "Prizes to Players" which is a paltry 59.5%. Basically you'd be a Fool to play here. The lousiest Penny Slots as in LV and AC run at around 87-88% and of course if you play Higher denominations the number is Higher.

 

Also as in the Video Poker machines here, they're the same thing. You can take your Bob Dancer Strategy cards and throw them away. It's the Lottery that Looks like you're playing VP. In LV and AC and other places VP machines are Required by Law to emulate the deal of a deck of cards. There are different strategies for the different games from straight up Jacks or Better to the other varieties like Double Bonus and all the rest. Some people are Way into that stuff!

 

My game of choice is Pai Gow Poker, straight up, no Bonus or Insurance bets. It's a slow low percentage game where in LV you can play at $10 a hand Off-Strip and Downtown. Unless you hit a bad run you can play for Hours with a $100 buy-in and still break even or just drop a little or get a little ahead. AND it's one of the Few games where you actually pick up your cards and set your own hands! It's a Slow and Social game where everyone sits and talks and has a good time.

Edited by Bartman

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Exactly! As the slots in MD are wired into the MD State Lottery system, your Win or Loss is essentially Predetermined. On Class III, RNG machines. it's Not. Their "Hold" or conversely "Payback" percentage is determined by the Payscale chip. The RNG stops at a certain number and that number has a corresponding Value on the Payscale chip every time you hit the Spin button. I used to subscribe to "Simply Slots" and it's sister publication "Casino Player" and they would publish across the US the average "Payback Percentages" of RNG slots in different States and areas. Though they're Not a guarantee of what you should expect to Win or Lose, you get an idea of whose machines are "Looser". The States such as MD who regulate the slots themselves wont make those figures public. As I've mentioned, the Only figure the MD State Lottery publishes is the Percentage of their Total take Overall which is awarded as "Prizes to Players" which is a paltry 59.5%. Basically you'd be a Fool to play here. The lousiest Penny Slots as in LV and AC run at around 87-88% and of course if you play Higher denominations the number is Higher.

 

Also as in the Video Poker machines here, they're the same thing. You can take your Bob Dancer Strategy cards and throw them away. It's the Lottery that Looks like you're playing VP. In LV and AC and other places VP machines are Required by Law to emulate the deal of a deck of cards. There are different strategies for the different games from straight up Jacks or Better to the other varieties like Double Bonus and all the rest. Some people are Way into that stuff!

 

My game of choice is Pai Gow Poker, straight up, no Bonus or Insurance bets. It's a slow low percentage game where in LV you can play at $10 a hand Off-Strip and Downtown. Unless you hit a bad run you can play for Hours with a $100 buy-in and still break even or just drop a little or get a little ahead. AND it's one of the Few games where you actually pick up your cards and set your own hands! It's a Slow and Social game where everyone sits and talks and has a good time.

 

Wow you are a fountain of knowledge...complement.

 

My wife and I rarely gamble....just not in our genes I guess.

However, we do have a very scientific method we use on the machines and NEVER loose money. At the very least we break even.

Here it is....now take notes this is real hi-tech; We set a limit of say 50 bucks and buy those tokens and put them in one cup we also carry an empty cup. In it we put the winnings. We always play out of the first cup till its all gone. The we stop and cash in the winnings cup.

 

This method is fool proof. Sometime we come out ahead but never walk out with less money than we came in with.

 

But I hear that even tokens are nolonger around. That you get some sort of debit card? Again we don't get out to the casinos much. :D

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Posted (edited)

There is no "Debit Card". What you are seeing is the Players Club cards that all the Casinos invite you to sign up for. This is just the way that casinos track your play and give you Points for how much you're playing. At the very least just having their "Club" cards you will get a break on your Room Rates in AC & LV over Retail rates and if you've racked up any number of "Points" you may be able to stay Free or at least a substantial discount at what you might wind up paying otherwise. I have one "Stretchy" with all my AC cards and another with my LV cards.

 

The bottom line is that the Casinos have the "Edge". In the Long Run, you Won't Win! You may have a Good Run here and there but not Overall. The best you can do is put "Less Money at Risk over Time". Slots and other "Carnival Games" like 3 Card Poker, Let it Ride, Caribbean Stud and others have a substantial House Edge. If you understand Basic Strategy and learn Card Counting BJ can lower their edge a great deal. Otherwise it's just too Fast at many hands per hour and will Kill you.

 

If you just enjoy the Play, I still recommend Pai Gow Poker where you will Never make a Killing but it's Slow and statistically you Push like 40 some percent of the time and Dealer wins like 26 point something percent and Player wins like 25 point some percent. Just play Straight Up and forget the Bonus or Insurance bets, they just raise the Casinos odds. So unless you hit a Bad Run you can play for Hours! It's a Grind but people sit and talk & play and it's Fun! My best friend plays Pai Gow Tiles all the time which is even Slower but learning all the combinations there on the Dominos is beyond me.

Edited by Bartman

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Geeezzz Bart..... I thought people go to casinos to have fun and relax. Based on what you are saying it sounds more like one is launching the space shuttle. :D

 

Again a complement; Since you seems extrememly knowledgeable about this stuff.

Can you explain something. I regards 'card counting'....now my rudimentary understanding is that a player keeps track in his head the cards that have been dealt. And based on that and I am sure some mental formulas calculates the % chance a card may or maynot come up? That right?

 

If what I am saying is true, I would imagine that only a very very small number of people are capable of doing such of feat with any degree of sustainable accuracy. So my question is; why are the casinos so absolutely batshxt crazy about catching them at it. And more importantly, as you gamblers might say what is the tell. How the blip does a casino look inside someones head and figure he is counting?

 

As indicated I am not real big into gambling. But I have always been interested about card counting. Don't ask me why...I just do. Maybe it is my IT math background.

 

Thanks in advance .... a very interesting learning experience.

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Posted (edited)

Since I'm not into Blackjack I don't know all the details. On tables where the Dealer holds a single deck in their hand, not using a Shoe with many decks, you assign a point value to every card you see dealt out and what the outcome is on each deal. What happens is you then get an idea of how many 10's or Face cards are left so you can decide to hit or stand depending on what you have been dealt. How they spot "Counters" is by seeing them raise or lower their bets over the hands being dealt. So say you see someone betting Quarters for several hands then they start betting Blacks and they Win then they go back to Quarters. There are probably Loads of sites out there that can explain it better than me.

 

Mike Shackleford who started This site years ago worked here in Baltimore as an Actuary for Social Security. Now he Lives in Vegas!

 

https://wizardofodds.com

 

Edited by Bartman

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Posted (edited)

Thanks Bart, still, from my viewpoint, how is it differentiated that one is counting, has a 'gut' feeling or just is lucky that day,

 

I guess I just don't see how someone being able to calculate in their heads what the probablilities are in an effort to win is such a crime. But I guess that the casinos like any business wants as big an 'edge' as they can. But to me banning counters is akin to banning a fantastic hitter in baseball simply because he can naturally hit much better than anyone else.

 

It is not like everyone going into a casino is gifted enough to count. But to me, anyone playing 'counts'. You see the cards that you and fellow players have up and what the points are. Everyone must somehow count and know when to fold and when to hold them. But obviously with a wide variety of success.

 

Maybe my logic is what keeps me from the casino's and lotto. :lol:

Edited by Guido2

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Maryland steals enough of the peoples money,

if they think Ill be ripped off by a state run (badly)

they have another think coming.

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Posted (edited)

Bottom line is that the Casinos everywhere have the edge. If you walk into any casino expecting to Win, well I have some Property you may be interested in.

 

I go to Enjoy the Play and have a Loss Limit. I play Cheap tables $10 and even $5 where I can find them and just goof around. I plan for $200/session broken into the AM after the B'fast buffet, then the Afternoon Session, break for Dinner and whatever is left or Over from those two rolls into my Evening Session. Sometimes you get Lucky and come out Ahead or at the very least Not lose as much as you expected. When I go to LV I usually take abt 2K and change. I've always come back with about 1/2 of that which includes ALL expenses, Food & Drink, Souvenier crap and whatever. Best I ever did was come back only abt $500 down which is pretty Good for a whole week. Hell you can go Anywhere on a vacay and blow a Grand in a week! I think I do pretty good and my buddy Old John and I have been almost Everywhere, Strip, Downtown and Off Strip. There are few places we haven't been in LV. We split the cost of the rental car and drive all over the place out there. We don't consider ourselves as tourists anymore. Pit Bosses & dealers out there remember us on sight at several places now. Just 2 Old Guys out and up to No Good!  :D

Edited by Bartman

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Posted (edited)

When I go to LV I usually take abt 2K and change.

Whoa Bart, I didn't know you were a BIG baller :D Is it that much fun that you don't mind losing a grand? Edited by bmore_ken

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Posted (edited)

Whoa Bart, I didn't know you were a BIG baller :D Is it that much fun that you don't mind losing a grand?

Tell me you can't blow a Grand almost Anywhere on a vacation in a week! Like I said, usually come back with at least 1/2 of the 2k. Just like to have that Cushion if you just can't do anything good. Lowest I can recall was coming back with around $6-700 and the Best was one time I came back only down $200-300 for the whole week. That's Everything, Gambling, eating at the Cheap Buffets off strip and elsewhere tipping the Valet kids to park the car when we don't Self Park. Know I usually drop at least $100 on Souveneir T-Shirts and crap I bring back for everyone 'cause I always have to jam that stuff in the bag. And me and John splitting the Car cost and filling it up at the end. Cheap Tables esp in the AM. Played Mini-Bac for $5/hand at South Point & learned how to play with the little pen & scorecard! Roulette Downtown in the AM for $2/spin w/.25 chips! Off Strip & Downtown is the Best. All us Oldsters are out before the Young'uns even Think about getting up 'cause they've been Out all nite! Just look around and all you see is Gray Hair standing around before 7AM "When the H are they gonna open up the Buffet?" Well I'm in That bunch now! Run all over different Casinos playing Morning, Afternoon & Evening. Still in bed early, my eyes start closing after 11PM but by then we've been running around all day. Never seen a Show, not interested. You just name Any Casino in LV, betcha I've been there. I've got a whole bunch of players cards for all the places on my Stretchy! Play like Crazy for a week and I'm good for 6mos.

Edited by Bartman

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Tell me you can't blow a Grand almost Anywhere on a vacation in a week! Like I said, usually come back with at least 1/2 of the 2k. Just like to have that Cushion if you just can't do anything good. Lowest I can recall was coming back with around $700 and the Best was one time I came back only down $200-300 for the whole week. That's Everything, Gambling, eating at the Cheap Buffets off strip and elsewhere tipping the Valet kids to park the car when we don't Self Park. Know I usually drop at least $100 on Souveneir T-Shirts and crap I bring back for everyone 'cause I always have to jam that stuff in the bag. And me and John splitting the Car cost and filling it up at the end. Cheap Tables esp in the AM. Played Mini-Bac for $5/hand at South Point & learned how to play with the little pen & scorecard! Roulette Downtown in the AM for $2/spin w/.25 chips! Off Strip & Downtown is the Best. All us Oldsters are out before the Young'uns even Think about getting up 'cause they've been Out all nite! Just look around and all you see is Gray Hair standing around before 7AM "When the H are they gonna open up the Buffet?" Well I'm in That bunch now! Run all over different Casinos playing Morning, Afternoon & Evening. Still in bed early, my eyes start closing after 11PM but by then we've been running around all day. Never seen a Show, not interested. You just name Any Casino in LV, betcha I've been there. Play like Crazy for a week and I'm good for 6mos.

You can blow a grand on anything, I'm not judging at all. I just can't see blowing a grand with nothing to show for it.

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Just 2 Old Guys out and up to No Good! We go All Over & see Everything again. What's changed from last trip, say Hi to Pit Bosses & Dealers who recognize us now. "How ya Been?", "How You Doin'?" one dealer gal I knew for a couple years used to run over from her table and give me a big Hug & a peck on the cheek. Other Tourists look at us and think "Who are These guys? Everyone Knows them!" I don't get numbers myself but John has Email & Phone #'s of several Pit Bosses and a couple of the Asian gal dealers. He plays Pai Gow Tiles exclusively 'cept when we fool around with cheap Roulette or Mini Bac & Pai Gow Poker and a few Slots when we roam around during the day. That's how I could always find him at the Taj in AC, Just look for the One Old White Guy in the Asian Pit! We're just Nobody's but out there we get around all over & are treated & feel like we're Somebody's!

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