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Orioles still trying to figure out leadoff hitter.


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#41 weird-O

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Posted 02 March 2017 - 08:28 AM

It doesn't, I was simply pointing out that the Front Office is still...after 17 years...looking for an ace to lead the pitching staff :)

 

It just seems odd to bring that into the discussion. It's almost like you're trying to find things to complain about. 


Edited by weird-O, 02 March 2017 - 08:29 AM.

"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics." - Benjamin Disraeli

#42 Pickle20

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Posted 02 March 2017 - 09:39 AM

It doesn't, I was simply pointing out that the Front Office is still...after 17 years...looking for an ace to lead the pitching staff :)

God. You are a miserable person.



#43 CROUSEMAN

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Posted 02 March 2017 - 10:02 AM

I know Kim is one of our best options at lead-off, but how nice would it be to have some speed at the top along with the high OBP and low Ks.  I don't remember where Bourn hit last year in the line-up, but when he was in there it was a jolt of life to the line-up.  We actually manufactured some runs with some SBs and sacrifices. It would be nice if we could get that again from Rickard, Tavarez or Bourn when healthy.



#44 Pickle20

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Posted 02 March 2017 - 10:19 AM

Rickard vs LHP .367 OBP

Kim vs RHP .393 OBP

 

The O's don't steal many bases, and don't really need to. Just get some guys on base for the power guys.


Edited by Pickle20, 02 March 2017 - 10:20 AM.


#45 CROUSEMAN

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Posted 02 March 2017 - 10:41 AM

Rickard vs LHP .367 OBP

Kim vs RHP .393 OBP

 

The O's don't steal many bases, and don't really need to. Just get some guys on base for the power guys.

 

That would work at the top as a platoon.  I like Rickards speed.  How many times did we see last year where we did not score from second on a hit to the OF?  Way too many.   Speed isn't just about stealing bases.



#46 weird-O

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Posted 02 March 2017 - 11:20 AM

That would work at the top as a platoon.  I like Rickards speed.  How many times did we see last year where we did not score from second on a hit to the OF?  Way too many.   Speed isn't just about stealing bases.

And sometimes a player has great speed, and can't run the bases for nothing. We call that "David Lough-ing the base path"


"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics." - Benjamin Disraeli

#47 CROUSEMAN

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Posted 02 March 2017 - 11:36 AM

And sometimes a player has great speed, and can't run the bases for nothing. We call that "David Lough-ing the base path"

 

No doubt.  Lough was terrible and Felix Pie was even worse.  On the flip side a guy like Markakis wasn't fast but a very good base runner.  I think the point being is that this team for the last 4 or 5 years is strictly a station to station offense.  Its won a pile of games, but has come up short in the playoffs A little change up wouldn't hurt.  I'm hoping Rickard, Tavarez and/or Bourn can give us that little jump on maybe manufacturing some runs when the power dries up.  Really sick of all the games we lose because we only score 0-2 runs.  Then we score 10.  Whoopee.  It still only counts for one win.



#48 Pickle20

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Posted 02 March 2017 - 11:38 AM

That would work at the top as a platoon.  I like Rickards speed.  How many times did we see last year where we did not score from second on a hit to the OF?  Way too many.   Speed isn't just about stealing bases.

I'd rather someone be a smart base runner than be a speedy guy.



#49 CROUSEMAN

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Posted 02 March 2017 - 11:50 AM

I'd rather someone be a smart base runner than be a speedy guy.

 

Here is a novel idea for DD.  Get a guy that is both. 



#50 Bowie-Bruce

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Posted 02 March 2017 - 12:11 PM

Something tells me that Kim more than held his own against LHP overseas.

 

Again, it's all about giving him a fair opportunity to prove himself in spring training. But we all know that Buck didn't exactly do that for Kim this time last year.


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#51 weird-O

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Posted 02 March 2017 - 12:28 PM

No doubt.  Lough was terrible and Felix Pie was even worse.  On the flip side a guy like Markakis wasn't fast but a very good base runner.  I think the point being is that this team for the last 4 or 5 years is strictly a station to station offense.  Its won a pile of games, but has come up short in the playoffs A little change up wouldn't hurt.  I'm hoping Rickard, Tavarez and/or Bourn can give us that little jump on maybe manufacturing some runs when the power dries up.  Really sick of all the games we lose because we only score 0-2 runs.  Then we score 10.  Whoopee.  It still only counts for one win.

I followed you, I just wanted to get another Lough dig in, before the season starts, and he becomes a completely irrelevant reference.  :P

 

But yes, I was just bored to sleep last season. They were so uninteresting to watch. Power first teams are always exploited and dismantled in the playoffs. Any pitcher that faced the O's could completely ignore baserunners, and put total focus on the batter. Because everyone knew they weren't going to run. And I can only think of one time, where an O's runner realized no one was aware of him, and stole a base. I'm pretty sure it was Trumbo. He crept off the base, then extended his lead, and no one reacted, so he strolled over to 2B. By the time the catcher had the ball, he was already standing there, waiting for the next pitch.

 

And that doesn't aid the O's hitters, because no pitcher ever has to sacrifice throwing a breaking ball, for fear that an O's runner will steal. So they have their full arsenal for every pitch. With a Tavarez (just an example) on the bases, it really reduces the chances that a pitcher will throw a curve, because it may go in the dirt, and that's as good as a sac. bunt. And a change up...forget it. If he tracks it, he'll be standing on 2B, waiting for the throw down.

 

One of my favorite baseball sayings is, speed never takes a day off.  


"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics." - Benjamin Disraeli

#52 Pickle20

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Posted 02 March 2017 - 02:42 PM

Something tells me that Kim more than held his own against LHP overseas.

 

Again, it's all about giving him a fair opportunity to prove himself in spring training. But we all know that Buck didn't exactly do that for Kim this time last year.

I agree, I bet he has.

 

Buck benched him vs a LHP yesterday. ST is exactly the time to play him vs. lefties to see what he can do.

 

But it's Buck being Buck.



#53 Bowie-Bruce

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Posted 02 March 2017 - 03:50 PM

I agree, I bet he has.

Buck benched him vs a LHP yesterday. ST is exactly the time to play him vs. lefties to see what he can do.

But it's Buck being Buck.


Exactly.
Heaven is under our feet as well as over our heads.
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#54 85Knight

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Posted 03 March 2017 - 06:05 AM

Buck is a great manager but there are parts of his managing that I don't agree with and they are ignoring the need for a leadoff hitter and adding speed and OBP to the lineup. He's spoken on it many times and he's completely fine having a strictly power lineup and I'm tired of hearing that "that's what our ballpark is built for." I'm in spring training getting ready to post stats about how many games we've lost because we've scored less than 4 runs like I do every year.

#55 jamesdean

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Posted 03 March 2017 - 07:17 AM

Buck is a great manager but there are parts of his managing that I don't agree with and they are ignoring the need for a leadoff hitter and adding speed and OBP to the lineup. He's spoken on it many times and he's completely fine having a strictly power lineup and I'm tired of hearing that "that's what our ballpark is built for." I'm in spring training getting ready to post stats about how many games we've lost because we've scored less than 4 runs like I do every year.

Believe me, I hear you but the problem is throughout baseball, not just the Orioles.  Everyone with half a brain knows the Orioles have to improve their OBP but who are they going to get?  There's maybe a handful of players in the sport that can draw walks, make contact and get on base.  Good luck trying to find them and when you do, are they available?  Probably not.  The solution is simply a mind set and demanding the players on the Orioles to do it.  Like you said, Showalter is a very good manager but if he doesn't hold the hitters accountable for their plate discipline, then that's on him. Some hitters just have a terrible sense of what is a strike and what isn't but then you have you the "I don't care what it is, I'm swinging" mentality. I think that covers most of the Oriole line-up, with Adam Jones being the most obvious culprit.  It is what it is.  All you can hope for is that the starting rotation improves over last year and allows the team to stay competitive. 



#56 russsnyder

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Posted 03 March 2017 - 09:10 AM

Buck is a great manager but there are parts of his managing that I don't agree with and they are ignoring the need for a leadoff hitter and adding speed and OBP to the lineup. He's spoken on it many times and he's completely fine having a strictly power lineup and I'm tired of hearing that "that's what our ballpark is built for." I'm in spring training getting ready to post stats about how many games we've lost because we've scored less than 4 runs like I do every year.

 

  I agree that Buck Showalter is an excellent manager. However, my biggest issue with him last season was his inability to adjust when the team was floundering during the stretch. IMO, He did not use Kim enough when the team was in a hitting. Further, While I know that the orioles do not have an abundance of team speed, you have to steal bases to put pressure on the opposition. Lastly, when the team was slumping He did not adjust. IMO, He should have utilized the steal more with Bourn, and Jones, used the hit and run, and bunted at times. IMO, the Orioles problem is not building the team around the power that the line up brings, the problem is the lack of adjustment by Buck when the offense is quieted.



#57 Pickle20

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Posted 03 March 2017 - 09:23 AM

Here's the thing, Kim has the best OBP by far and the best approach at the plate. You can improve the team OBP by getting him more AB's and seeing what he can do against LHP. Apparently he was OK against lefties in Korea. So why not try him out in ST? Last year he pretty much benched Kim in ST and tried to force him to AAA. It made no sense then and it makes no sense now.

 

Buck's a great manager but he's very much set in his ways and very anti-advanced statistical anything. Can't argue with what he's done so far but nothing lasts forever.


Edited by Pickle20, 03 March 2017 - 09:23 AM.


#58 weird-O

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Posted 03 March 2017 - 09:42 AM

Buck has been a great field manager. But as Pickle alluded to, he seems to be sticking with what worked in the past, while ignoring that the game is evolving. Kind of like Ozzie's approach with the Ravens. There's a reason why one dimensional power hitters aren't drawing much interest on the open market, the past couple of off seasons. It's because GMs realize those guys can be pretty easily held in check, in the big moments. Trumbo can hit HRs, and nothing else. No one is going to pay you $30M/yr to strike out 200+ times, while barely getting on base, just because you can go yard 40 times in 650+ ABs.    


"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics." - Benjamin Disraeli

#59 daravenator

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Posted 03 March 2017 - 11:17 AM

We had a good one in Fowler lined up but he decided to go with a team that could win a world series.



#60 pitbull

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 10:15 AM

God. You are a miserable person.


?????

So, you don't think it's an issue that this team hasn't found an ace or leadoff hitter?

Gotcha.




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