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#21 Slidemaster

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Posted 10 April 2017 - 07:50 PM

Who did he trade away that was good in an Os uniform


Nobody. He traded a lot of minor league guys that turned out to be better than who he wanted in the trade. That's arguably worse.
The kids are alright.

#22 pitbull

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Posted 10 April 2017 - 10:26 PM

How about Davis, O'Day, Trumbo and Hardy?

?????

I know it's yesterday's news, but I feel Markakis and Cruz were a matter of big Dan being incompetent (i.e.: not doing his job; seeking other work; dismantling a division-winning team, etc) more than it was him being cheap.

Edited by pitbull, 14 April 2017 - 12:52 PM.


#23 Far from home

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Posted 14 April 2017 - 03:31 AM

It just isn't very impressive to me when the feather in his cap as far as pitching is concerned is one good reliever in four years. It's even worse when you consider how many good pitchers he traded away, and how horrible his free agent acquisitions have been.


Arrieta was a position they were forced into - although they should have let him use the cutter.
Hader - not in the majors yet
Davies - solid but unspectacular
Rodriguez - "he's going to be amazing" with a 5.71 ERA last year, and declining performance the last 3

meanwhile
Cruz - best year at the time in his career as an O
Gallardo - bad pickup, but flipped for Seth Smith after only one season
UJ - horrible move
Trumbo - great pickup for nothing, led the majors in homers, signed on a discount
Kim - .380 OBP last year, being paid virtually nothing
Brach - great pickup, AS
Britton to BP - great move, one of the best closers of this generation
Miller - phenomenal pickup, just wasn't ahead of the curve on signing him
Bundy - going to be a great draft pick
Castillo - early on, but looking like a good bargain sign
Flaherty - solid utility man, nothing to write home about
Machado to 3b - great move
Gausman draft pick - great returns so far
Hart - good lefty
Alvarez - solid pickup for DH even in a platoon, over 20 homers
Jim Johnson - let go at the right time
Mancini - one of his draft picks, looks like he's going to be pretty good
Chen - great signing, let him go at the right time
Gonzalez - great pickup, may have been let go too soon
Norris - great pickup, pitched over his head
Rickard - jury is still out
McFarland - very good for the O's, then fell on his face and is gone
Hammel - great pickup, couldn't stay healthy
Lindstrom - great pickup
Ayala - great pickup
Ideological gravy trains lead to poor decisions.
Learn from the last President, and make this next era one of rebuilding what has been torn down.
Instead of being loyal to your party, be loyal to your country and your people.

#24 russsnyder

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Posted 14 April 2017 - 03:47 AM

Arrieta was a position they were forced into - although they should have let him use the cutter.
Hader - not in the majors yet
Davies - solid but unspectacular
Rodriguez - "he's going to be amazing" with a 5.71 ERA last year, and declining performance the last 3

meanwhile
Cruz - best year at the time in his career as an O
Gallardo - bad pickup, but flipped for Seth Smith after only one season
UJ - horrible move
Trumbo - great pickup for nothing, led the majors in homers, signed on a discount
Kim - .380 OBP last year, being paid virtually nothing
Brach - great pickup, AS
Britton to BP - great move, one of the best closers of this generation
Miller - phenomenal pickup, just wasn't ahead of the curve on signing him
Bundy - going to be a great draft pick
Castillo - early on, but looking like a good bargain sign
Flaherty - solid utility man, nothing to write home about
Machado to 3b - great move
Gausman draft pick - great returns so far
Hart - good lefty
Alvarez - solid pickup for DH even in a platoon, over 20 homers
Jim Johnson - let go at the right time
Mancini - one of his draft picks, looks like he's going to be pretty good
Chen - great signing, let him go at the right time
Gonzalez - great pickup, may have been let go too soon
Norris - great pickup, pitched over his head
Rickard - jury is still out
McFarland - very good for the O's, then fell on his face and is gone
Hammel - great pickup, couldn't stay healthy
Lindstrom - great pickup
Ayala - great pickup

 

   Pretty good quick summary of some of the more significant moves that have been made by DD. Arrietta obviously sticks out like a sore thumb, 

   but it was a move that seemed to have to be made at the time. The Davies trade for Parra stings even more because that was after DD spent 

   the offseason flirting with Toronto and signing Travis Snider, De Aza, etc. to replace Nick Markakis. Parra was a disappointment to say the least. 

   That said, DD has done a nice job of signing free agent power hitters ( Cruz, Trumbo, & Alavarez). Also, the early returns on Castillo indicate that 

   He will most likely be a good value signing. 



#25 ncbirdfan

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Posted 14 April 2017 - 11:21 AM

Arrieta was a position they were forced into - although they should have let him use the cutter.
Hader - not in the majors yet
Davies - solid but unspectacular
Rodriguez - "he's going to be amazing" with a 5.71 ERA last year, and declining performance the last 3

meanwhile
Cruz - best year at the time in his career as an O
Gallardo - bad pickup, but flipped for Seth Smith after only one season
UJ - horrible move
Trumbo - great pickup for nothing, led the majors in homers, signed on a discount
Kim - .380 OBP last year, being paid virtually nothing
Brach - great pickup, AS
Britton to BP - great move, one of the best closers of this generation
Miller - phenomenal pickup, just wasn't ahead of the curve on signing him
Bundy - going to be a great draft pick
Castillo - early on, but looking like a good bargain sign
Flaherty - solid utility man, nothing to write home about
Machado to 3b - great move
Gausman draft pick - great returns so far
Hart - good lefty
Alvarez - solid pickup for DH even in a platoon, over 20 homers
Jim Johnson - let go at the right time
Mancini - one of his draft picks, looks like he's going to be pretty good
Chen - great signing, let him go at the right time
Gonzalez - great pickup, may have been let go too soon
Norris - great pickup, pitched over his head
Rickard - jury is still out
McFarland - very good for the O's, then fell on his face and is gone
Hammel - great pickup, couldn't stay healthy
Lindstrom - great pickup
Ayala - great pickup

Nice rundown. The bottom line is that Duquette has put a winning team on the field. And i remember there were few people that were upset that Arrietta was traded. He always had potential, but with the Orioles had major control issues. It's easy to be critical after the fact. But if anyone is honest, they were OK with the trade at the time.



#26 Rael

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Posted 14 April 2017 - 12:19 PM

Nice rundown. The bottom line is that Duquette has put a winning team on the field. And i remember there were few people that were upset that Arrietta was traded. He always had potential, but with the Orioles had major control issues. It's easy to be critical after the fact. But if anyone is honest, they were OK with the trade at the time.

Yea, Dan wasn't the reason that Arrietta didn't blossom here. Dan doesn't coach the pitchers the last I saw. It was the heavy handed pitching coaches that cause Arrietta to fail.


Pessimism is just an ugly word for 'pattern recognition'.

#27 ncbirdfan

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Posted 14 April 2017 - 12:33 PM

Yea, Dan wasn't the reason that Arrietta didn't blossom here. Dan doesn't coach the pitchers the last I saw. It was the heavy handed pitching coaches that cause Arrietta to fail.

It was that and sometimes a change in scenery makes the world of difference. But we cannot cry over every player that gets traded or moves on, even if/when those players prosper elsewhere. Ideally, trades are supposed to benefit both clubs, but sometimes you get a player like Adam Jones/Chris Tillman that will help you for years and sometimes you give up players like Arrieta that will help other teams.



#28 mdrunning

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Posted 15 April 2017 - 12:05 AM

Nice rundown. The bottom line is that Duquette has put a winning team on the field. And i remember there were few people that were upset that Arrietta was traded. He always had potential, but with the Orioles had major control issues. It's easy to be critical after the fact. But if anyone is honest, they were OK with the trade at the time.

I certainly was. I know I've said it before, but trades first have to be judged by their merit at the time they're made. The second criterion is the result, which wasn't so hot, but at the time, it looked like a case of the Orioles getting a guy who could help (Scott Feldman) in exchange for someone who certainly had the ability to do so, but had largely been unable to contribute up that point.



#29 Far from home

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Posted 15 April 2017 - 02:16 AM

Yea, Dan wasn't the reason that Arrietta didn't blossom here. Dan doesn't coach the pitchers the last I saw. It was the heavy handed pitching coaches that cause Arrietta to fail.


I would argue, in that case, that Dan and Buck shoulder the blame with Jake.

Dan had the ridiculous notion that there is something wrong with the cutter. Buck supported him, as did the pitching coaches. Jake acted like a baby about it.

Whereas Jake has blossomed, Wright has taken the same attitude and it has pushed him into the gutter.

As far as the trade itself, based on Arrieta's performance it had to be done.
Ideological gravy trains lead to poor decisions.
Learn from the last President, and make this next era one of rebuilding what has been torn down.
Instead of being loyal to your party, be loyal to your country and your people.

#30 Far from home

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Posted 15 April 2017 - 02:24 AM

I certainly was. I know I've said it before, but trades first have to be judged by their merit at the time they're made. The second criterion is the result, which wasn't so hot, but at the time, it looked like a case of the Orioles getting a guy who could help (Scott Feldman) in exchange for someone who certainly had the ability to do so, but had largely been unable to contribute up that point.



Imo, the reality of what Dan has done, and what will be his ultimate negative on his resume, was his inability to act to make the team better when he needed to.
For all of the good moves he has made, he has also made a number of non-moves that have really hurt his stock.
Instead of signing starting pitching when it was needed, he ignored good starters and went for bargain bin moves.
Instead of signing players to fit the needs of the team, he has been overaggressive trying to nickle and dime his way to fill those needs, and it has probably cost the team at least one WS, because the core of this team is one of the best in baseball by far.
He also let important players go.
Lastly, he hasn't engaged at all in the international prospect market.
My feeling though is that this has something more to do with Angelos than him. Also, the team posted an operating loss last year, one of only 6 teams in baseball. I'm sure this is going to cause them to have to tighten the purse strings a little more. I just hope it doesn't get in the way of any resignings.
Ideological gravy trains lead to poor decisions.
Learn from the last President, and make this next era one of rebuilding what has been torn down.
Instead of being loyal to your party, be loyal to your country and your people.

#31 CROUSEMAN

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Posted 15 April 2017 - 10:02 AM

DD continues to raid the back end of other teams 40 man rosters by trading another international bonus slot to the Marlins for LHP Paul Fry.  Designated Parker Bridwell of the 40 man.  Not sure these new guys like Magnifico or Fry will ever pan out, but it was pretty clear guys like Gunkle, GDrake and Bridwell didn't have it.  I expect Mike Wright to be gone one of these days too. He has fallen like a rock.  Best thing for him would be to switch to the pen as a set up guy. Throw gas for one inning ala tommy hunter.

 

LOL, DD spends those international bonus slots and comp draft picks like a drunken sailor.  I'm OK with it as long as you clear the deadwood from the 40 man like he has been.  I did see where there was an article being highly critical of the O's for their lack of international signings to help the farm. 



#32 russsnyder

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Posted 15 April 2017 - 10:51 AM

Imo, the reality of what Dan has done, and what will be his ultimate negative on his resume, was his inability to act to make the team better when he needed to.
For all of the good moves he has made, he has also made a number of non-moves that have really hurt his stock.
Instead of signing starting pitching when it was needed, he ignored good starters and went for bargain bin moves.
Instead of signing players to fit the needs of the team, he has been overaggressive trying to nickle and dime his way to fill those needs, and it has probably cost the team at least one WS, because the core of this team is one of the best in baseball by far.
He also let important players go.
Lastly, he hasn't engaged at all in the international prospect market.
My feeling though is that this has something more to do with Angelos than him. Also, the team posted an operating loss last year, one of only 6 teams in baseball. I'm sure this is going to cause them to have to tighten the purse strings a little more. I just hope it doesn't get in the way of any resignings.

 

   I am not sure exactly what You are referring to here, however, I think that DD has done a good job at addressing the needs of the team in season.

 

   IMO, I think that his acquisitions of Bourn, Stubbs, and Tommy Hunter last season are a good example of this. Bourn and Stubbs gave the Orioles an influx

 

   of speed and improved OF defense. ( Bourn's misplay in the WC game aside.) Hunter gave Showalter another option other than the Wilson/Wright dumpster fire.

 

   Also, while it is easy to criticize the Arrietta trade in hindsight, Feldman provided a steady rotation piece in 2013. I had no issue with moving Arrietta at the time.

 

   His best in season move IMO was the acquisition of Andrew Miller in 2014. The Tigers were in the hunt for Miller and the deal solidified the Orioles pen and 

 

   lept the orioles from having to face Miller in the divisional round. 



#33 ncbirdfan

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Posted 15 April 2017 - 12:24 PM

I think fantasy and computer simulation games have ruined fans expectations of what their respective teams do in transactions. It's real easy to build a great fantasy team, but real life is much different and harder. For example, I keep hearing that the Orioles needed to get a high qulity pitcher and are upset that they "settle" for pitchers that other teams discard. And there is a reason for that.

 

Great pitchers don't grow on trees and the ones that are great tend to be in high demand. And past performances do not usually mean future success. It's a great risk to buy and expensive pitcher through free agency. What happens if you sign a former Cy-Young pitcher for a 7-year 30 million per year contract and he blows his arm out in the second year or just doesn't perform as well as in the past? And even if he does pitch adequately for the remainder of the contract? How does that affect other roster decisions?

 

Real life is much more complicated than the fantasy world. The "perfect" players usually aren't available and when they are there is usually a stiff price to acquire them.


Edited by ncbirdfan, 15 April 2017 - 12:25 PM.


#34 Slidemaster

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Posted 15 April 2017 - 12:54 PM

Arietta - [bno problem with the trade. He needed to get out because the O's ruined him.[/b]
Hader - Jury is still out
Davies - Is he better than 2/5ths of the rotation?
Rodriguez - So far looks like a great arm who may not figure out how to pitch.

Cruz - Had his best year, and was promptly let go and not replaced adequately until Trumbo.
Gallardo - Horrendous with or with Seth Smith
UJ - horrible move
Trumbo - great pickup for nothing, led the majors in homers, signed on a discount. Agree
Kim - .380 OBP last year, being paid virtually nothing
Brach - great pickup, AS
Britton to BP - great move, one of the best closers of this generation. What makes you think Duquette did that?
Miller - phenomenal pickup, just wasn't ahead of the curve on signing him
Bundy - going to be a great draft pick Too bad DD didn't pick him.
Castillo - early on, but looking like a good bargain sign
Flaherty - solid utility man, nothing to write home about
Machado to 3b - great move again, what makes you think DD did that? That is at best a group organizational decision and you can get DD defers to the minor league coaches and Buck on that.
Gausman draft pick - great returns so far
Hart - good lefty based on how large a sample?
Alvarez - solid pickup for DH even in a platoon, over 20 homers [b]So good he's still unsigned because he can't give away his services

Jim Johnson - let go at the right time
Mancini - one of his draft picks, looks like he's going to be pretty good
Chen - great signing, let him go at the right time
Gonzalez - great pickup, may have been let go too soon
Norris - great pickup, pitched over his head [b]in what universe was Norris a great pickup?

Rickard - jury is still out
McFarland - very good for the O's, then fell on his face and is gone [b] Awful.

Hammel - great pickup, couldn't stay healthy
Lindstrom - great pickup
Ayala - great pickup

I've said before and I'll say again. Duquette can't build a starting pitching staff. If he could only be gm of finding position players he'd be great. He aint.
The kids are alright.

#35 ncbirdfan

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Posted 15 April 2017 - 12:57 PM

Arietta - [bno problem with the trade. He needed to get out because the O's ruined him.[/b]
Hader - Jury is still out
Davies - Is he better than 2/5ths of the rotation?
Rodriguez - So far looks like a great arm who may not figure out how to pitch.

Cruz - Had his best year, and was promptly let go and not replaced adequately until Trumbo.
Gallardo - Horrendous with or with Seth Smith
UJ - horrible move
Trumbo - great pickup for nothing, led the majors in homers, signed on a discount. Agree
Kim - .380 OBP last year, being paid virtually nothing
Brach - great pickup, AS
Britton to BP - great move, one of the best closers of this generation. What makes you think Duquette did that?
Miller - phenomenal pickup, just wasn't ahead of the curve on signing him
Bundy - going to be a great draft pick Too bad DD didn't pick him.
Castillo - early on, but looking like a good bargain sign
Flaherty - solid utility man, nothing to write home about
Machado to 3b - great move again, what makes you think DD did that? That is at best a group organizational decision and you can get DD defers to the minor league coaches and Buck on that.
Gausman draft pick - great returns so far
Hart - good lefty based on how large a sample?
Alvarez - solid pickup for DH even in a platoon, over 20 homers [b]So good he's still unsigned because he can't give away his services

Jim Johnson - let go at the right time
Mancini - one of his draft picks, looks like he's going to be pretty good
Chen - great signing, let him go at the right time
Gonzalez - great pickup, may have been let go too soon
Norris - great pickup, pitched over his head [b]in what universe was Norris a great pickup?

Rickard - jury is still out
McFarland - very good for the O's, then fell on his face and is gone [b] Awful.

Hammel - great pickup, couldn't stay healthy
Lindstrom - great pickup
Ayala - great pickup

I've said before and I'll say again. Duquette can't build a starting pitching staff. If he could only be gm of finding position players he'd be great. He aint.

How's your fantasy team doing?



#36 Far from home

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Posted 15 April 2017 - 12:59 PM

 

   I am not sure exactly what You are referring to here, however, I think that DD has done a good job at addressing the needs of the team in season.
 
   IMO, I think that his acquisitions of Bourn, Stubbs, and Tommy Hunter last season are a good example of this. Bourn and Stubbs gave the Orioles an influx
 
   of speed and improved OF defense. ( Bourn's misplay in the WC game aside.) Hunter gave Showalter another option other than the Wilson/Wright dumpster fire.
 
   Also, while it is easy to criticize the Arrietta trade in hindsight, Feldman provided a steady rotation piece in 2013. I had no issue with moving Arrietta at the time.
 
   His best in season move IMO was the acquisition of Andrew Miller in 2014. The Tigers were in the hunt for Miller and the deal solidified the Orioles pen and 
 
   lept the orioles from having to face Miller in the divisional round. 


Feldman was one of those non-moves. The O's really needed another pitcher they could count on, and the O's let him go.
I'm not criticizing the Arrieta trade - I think the trade made sense at the time, but I also think that the O's immovable position made the situation happen in the first place.
Miller was a great pickup - then they let him go in the offseason. It was just before the great shift to paying relievers, but he was too expensive for the O's.

DD makes a ton of good fringe acquisitions, and they pan out great. I just think that, again, his non-moves are what is going to define his time with the O's. I just hope that doesn't include a Manny defection.
Ideological gravy trains lead to poor decisions.
Learn from the last President, and make this next era one of rebuilding what has been torn down.
Instead of being loyal to your party, be loyal to your country and your people.

#37 Far from home

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Posted 15 April 2017 - 01:01 PM

 

Arietta - [bno problem with the trade. He needed to get out because the O's ruined him.[/b]
Hader - Jury is still out
Davies - Is he better than 2/5ths of the rotation?
Rodriguez - So far looks like a great arm who may not figure out how to pitch.

Cruz - Had his best year, and was promptly let go and not replaced adequately until Trumbo.
Gallardo - Horrendous with or with Seth Smith
UJ - horrible move
Trumbo - great pickup for nothing, led the majors in homers, signed on a discount. Agree
Kim - .380 OBP last year, being paid virtually nothing
Brach - great pickup, AS
Britton to BP - great move, one of the best closers of this generation. What makes you think Duquette did that?
Miller - phenomenal pickup, just wasn't ahead of the curve on signing him
Bundy - going to be a great draft pick Too bad DD didn't pick him.
Castillo - early on, but looking like a good bargain sign
Flaherty - solid utility man, nothing to write home about
Machado to 3b - great move again, what makes you think DD did that? That is at best a group organizational decision and you can get DD defers to the minor league coaches and Buck on that.
Gausman draft pick - great returns so far
Hart - good lefty based on how large a sample?
Alvarez - solid pickup for DH even in a platoon, over 20 homers [b]So good he's still unsigned because he can't give away his services

Jim Johnson - let go at the right time
Mancini - one of his draft picks, looks like he's going to be pretty good
Chen - great signing, let him go at the right time
Gonzalez - great pickup, may have been let go too soon
Norris - great pickup, pitched over his head [b]in what universe was Norris a great pickup?

Rickard - jury is still out
McFarland - very good for the O's, then fell on his face and is gone [b] Awful.

Hammel - great pickup, couldn't stay healthy
Lindstrom - great pickup
Ayala - great pickup

I've said before and I'll say again. Duquette can't build a starting pitching staff. If he could only be gm of finding position players he'd be great. He aint.



If you're going to quote me, have the respect to actually quote me instead of changing my words. Thanks.
Ideological gravy trains lead to poor decisions.
Learn from the last President, and make this next era one of rebuilding what has been torn down.
Instead of being loyal to your party, be loyal to your country and your people.

#38 Slidemaster

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Posted 15 April 2017 - 01:08 PM

How's your fantasy team doing?


It's going great. I used "Baseball Perspective" to help me.
The kids are alright.

#39 Slidemaster

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Posted 15 April 2017 - 01:09 PM

 

If you're going to quote me, have the respect to actually quote me instead of changing my words. Thanks.

I didn't change any words. I bolded my thoughts if they differed from yours.

Get over yourself. Thanks.

Edited by Slidemaster, 15 April 2017 - 01:10 PM.

The kids are alright.

#40 ncbirdfan

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Posted 15 April 2017 - 01:09 PM

It's going great. I used "Baseball Perspective" to help me.

Cool! That's the site I would have used as well. :)






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